Shadows - Forerunners of Al Dajjal, Freemasons war on Islam

[Armstrong]

If they follow your proposal then they arent Muslims in the first place. A Muslim is not a identity card category. The idea is not about embedded mindsets.. the same could be said of highly educated atheists whose denial of religion is so deeply embedded in self proclaimed understanding that they refuse to accommodate any concept of spirituality.

So are you telling me that if I don't buy into the whole Dajjal, end of the world war & the sort of stuff - I'm not a Muslim ?

 

[Chak Bamu]

Muslims should move forward to 21st century. These things i.e. dajjal, heaven or hell are so much embeded repeatedly in muslim mindset that even highly educated muslim can't see beyond them and lose ability to think rationally & freely. Religion are just for spituality feelings, nothing more and in actual religion create divides. It create issues when you consider religious guidence literaly. So muslims must move forward from 7th to 21st centuary.

No one saw heaven or hell. Everything is on earth and you have to pay for your deeds here on earth itself. Its you who makes your life heaven or hell.

Good to know how you think. Now that you are done showing your world-view, allow us to reject your prescription. Islam is a universalist religion, not a dharmic, region-specific religion. We know which century we live in and do not need you to remind us. What is spirituality to you? Some mumbo-jumbo that could be made to mean anything? Do you really know any better? Have you seen or experienced things that are implausible or un-explainable in context of physical sciences alone? I think not! And so, thanks but no thanks.

 

[SQ8]

The relevant Hadith seems allegorical and has a distinct 'other-worldly' / 'alternate-reality' feel to it. I find the concept of a hairy creature by the name of 'Jassa' (spy) as accessory to Dajjal to be very interesting in the relevant Hadith.

One must always keep in mind that the audience for these revelations were people who did not have all the advance in knowledge and information we have to understand such things in context. Hence, a lot of these concepts were made as simplified as possible and the repeated direction for men of understanding mentioned again and again in the Quran is for such individuals to discern what is the true meaning.

for e.g.
In Surah Baqarah it is mentioned of entire nations being made lifeless and brought back to life.
For a Muslim.. this may be taken in two different senses..
first.. yes, they all died.. an entire nation died and was brought back to life which is very possible for God to do as it is in his power.

second, perhaps by death it may also mean an allusion of death?; a death of society? a death of progress.. and then a revival?
The first is to be accepted with submission, the second is to be explored with a passion for understanding.

 

[Chak Bamu]

So are you telling me that if I don't buy into the whole Dajjal, end of the world war & the sort of stuff - I'm not a Muslim ?

@Oscar is not saying that at all. Read his post again.

 

[Panther 57]

Muslims should move forward to 21st century. These things i.e. dajjal, heaven or hell are so much embeded repeatedly in muslim mindset that even highly educated muslim can't see beyond them and lose ability to think rationally & freely. Religion are just for spituality feelings, nothing more and in actual religion create divides. It create issues when you consider religious guidence literaly. So muslims must move forward from 7th to 21st centuary.

No one saw heaven or hell. Everything is on earth and you have to pay for your deeds here on earth itself. Its you who makes your life heaven or hell.

I will tend to disagree with you on this. Religions do not create divides, its the followers of religion who create divides. As I mentioned in earlier post that all religions talk about an Omen and a Saviour. If you see basics of all religion, they give message of peace and kindness to mankind. All religion say that there is one god or power of goodness, I am sure you will agree that Hinduism also talk about one ishuar. All religion talk about one evil power or iblis or lucifer. So its not religion but followers who create a divide.

As regard concept of Dajjal is concern, it exists and it will come as @salman108 said that it is a concept which may manifest itself in a personality. It in no way creates a drag or hinder progress. It is a prediction in Islam, Jewism and Christianity, which is going to materialise. No one can change the destiny, so no worries keep moving.

 

[SQ8]

So are you telling me that if I don't buy into the whole Dajjal, end of the world war & the sort of stuff - I'm not a Muslim ?

What I am telling you, is that Islam is the Quran, The Hadiath(sayings of the prophet) and his life as an example. And as a Muslim it is your objective to understand all three to the best of your abilities. As I mentioned earlier, finding the oldest sources and correlating with the Quran is the best way to sort out doubts.

 

[Armstrong]

What I am telling you, is that Islam is the Quran, The Hadiath(sayings of the prophet) and his life as an example. And as a Muslim it is your objective to understand all three to the best of your abilities. As I mentioned earlier, finding the oldest sources and correlating with the Quran is the best way to sort out doubts.

Who declared it as such ?

Koran + Hadith + Sunnah = Islam !

 

[Panther 57]

Who declared it as such ?

Koran + Hadith + Sunnah = Islam !

Who said that and those who say undermine the grandness of the philosophy of this belief.

 

[Donatello]

So are you telling me that if I don't buy into the whole Dajjal, end of the world war & the sort of stuff - I'm not a Muslim ?

See, what he is trying to imply, if i may state, is that a religion has to be flexible. It has to be flexible enough to cope with the advancement of the civil society that it is followed in. The world around us is no more the 6th Century. Islam has to evolve, find new reasoning. For example, we need learned scholars who have knowledge of both the Islamic values and modern scientific ones to solve ages old problems. Like how to do a business? If you work in a bank, is that job right for you or not?

World finance has changed from the old days when barter was still the accepted rule of the trade. Muslim shepherds had dealt in livestock. Now we have Securities and Bond trading and what not. Since as a Muslim my foremost belief is that Prophet Muhammad (May PBUH) was the last messenger of One and only God- the Almighty Allah. It means the message by Allah is complete. No other prophet it going to come and teach us the 21st Century Islam. That is left to us and the Ummah to reason and debate and thus evolve our beliefs within the original framework of Islam.

 

[Maler]

Good to know how you think. Now that you are done showing your world-view, allow us to reject your prescription. Islam is a universalist religion, not a dharmic, region-specific religion. We know which century we live in and do not need you to remind us. What is spirituality to you? Some mumbo-jumbo that could be made to mean anything? Do you really know any better? Have you seen or experienced things that are implausible or un-explainable in context of physical sciences alone? I think not! And so, thanks but no thanks.

Its not about Islam alone, Every religion is like this more or less. Nothing is implausible or explainable, If something was implausible or explainable 100 years ago or 200 years or more is answered or being answered or will be answered in future. Science is answering every question, if not today then tomorrow. Its the science that is a miracle. There is no proof of existance of any external force today, If it exists then we will find it someday with the help of science and rationality.

 

[Armstrong]

See, what he is trying to imply, if i may state, is that a religion has to be flexible. It has to be flexible enough to cope with the advancement of the civil society that it is followed in. The world around us is no more the 6th Century. Islam has to evolve, find new reasoning. For example, we need learned scholars who have knowledge of both the Islamic values and modern scientific ones to solve ages old problems. Like how to do a business? If you work in a bank, is that job right for you or not?

World finance has changed from the old days when barter was still the accepted rule of the trade. Muslim shepherds had dealt in livestock. Now we have Securities and Bond trading and what not. Since as a Muslim my foremost belief is that Prophet Muhammad (May PBUH) was the last messenger of One and only God- the Almighty Allah. It means the message by Allah is complete. No other prophet it going to come and teach us the 21st Century Islam. That is left to us and the Ummah to reason and debate and thus evolve our beliefs within the original framework of Islam.

I think that you've got the Koran before you & the Koran gives yous 'principles' & not systems !

I'm sure if we relegate the Hadith to 'Historical Narratives' as opposed to making it a part of 'Faith' & remove our so-called 'Religious Scholars' of ages past & present from the Equation altogether - We could get rid of many of the Sectarian & Social Issues that we - the Muslims - are facing !

One doesn't have to reinvent the wheel - If the Koran is against Riba'h then one can find systems of Finance from within what the Society has created to address that as opposed to going on to create an 'Islamic System' - Socialism could be worth looking at, re-evaluating the definition of Money could be another & perhaps it would be worth looking at the pre & post Bretton-Wood Gold Standard & at Fractional Banking !

 

[Maler]

I will tend to disagree with you on this. Religions do not create divides, its the followers of religion who create divides. As I mentioned in earlier post that all religions talk about an Omen and a Saviour. If you see basics of all religion, they give message of peace and kindness to mankind. All religion say that there is one god or power of goodness, I am sure you will agree that Hinduism also talk about one ishuar. All religion talk about one evil power or iblis or lucifer. So its not religion but followers who create a divide.

As regard concept of Dajjal is concern, it exists and it will come as @salman108 said that it is a concept which may manifest itself in a personality. It in no way creates a drag or hinder progress. It is a prediction in Islam, Jewism and Christianity, which is going to materialise. No one can change the destiny, so no worries keep moving.

I tend to differ too bro. Its the religon that creates divide not human. Every religion has the tendancy to convert any human being into animal. When a baby is born, Its like 'Kora Kagaz' and religion corrupt it with passing of time. Every religion do the similar damage somewhat more or less. Followers just follow the religion as it told them to follow. Almost every religious person could not think & see rationally, It tend to see, explain everything through the lens of religion. Almost every masscre in the history has a religious connection. In South East Asia & Middle east religion is propagated by respective govt to divert people attention and is used to explain their failures by fixing the responsibility at an invisible third party. Humanity is the only religion that every human should follow.

 

[Mitro]

Dajjal is a system till he is please with the world without religion and will come to rule the world from Jerusalem Faking Jesus PBUH.

Dajjal is one eye does not mean he will look like a monster but According to quran the people don't see from heart is blind so he will be blind from his heart eyes[Spiritually Speaking]
.

We have to go to the oldest of sources and walk to the latest.
Analyze the trend, and then synthesize the signal from noise !

Dajjal is a concept; which may finally be manifested by a leader.

Him being a one eyes monster goes against God's science and historical trend.

 

[Mitro]

Say, 'Obey Allah and the Messenger'. But if they turn away, [know that] Allah does not love the disbelievers." (Qur'an 3:32)

Whoever obeys the Messenger obeys Allah. If some pay no heed, We have not sent you to be their keeper." (Qur'an 4:79)

"This [Qur'an] is sent down from the Lord of all the worlds. If [the Prophet] had said anything against Us, We would certainly have seized his right hand and cut off his artery, and none of you could have defended him." (Qur'an 69:43-47)

"Say, I am nothing new among the Messengers. I have no idea what will be done with me or you. I only follow what has been revealed to me. I am only a clear warner.' (Qur'an 46:9)

And We have revealed the Book to you which has clear explanations of everything, and a guidance, mercy and good news for those who submit." (Qur'an 16:89)

“This Book has been sent down to you (Prophet) – let there be no anxiety in your heart about it – so that you may use it to give warning and to remind the believers (by telling them): ‘Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord, (the Qur'an)! Do not follow other masters beside Him. How seldom you take heed!’ ” (Qur’an 7:2)

Who declared it as such ?

Koran + Hadith + Sunnah = Islam !

 

[BATMAN]

Who declared it as such ?

Koran + Hadith + Sunnah = Islam !

There is no Hadith but Individual Hadith
There is no Sunnah but individual Sunnah
You shall re-write your equation as follows:
Koran + Individual Hadith + Individual Sunnah = conflicting Islam

When any history becomes conflicting, it shall be dropped in order to avoid divide in Islam.

Anyhow, lets us explain, how do you define Hadith and Sunnah?