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Featured SH15 Artillery in Pakistan

Nothing is silly about your question bro, ask away.
The best response I have ever seen was from an American solider who serves in an artillery unit and has experience of both self-propelled and towed. I can't name the forum but here, it's detailed;



Since I’ve served in both, I can sum it up as following:

When talking about the same caliber guns (155mm) and not some toys you can mount on a helicopter, self propelled is better in any aspect related to the mission: it moves faster, deploys faster, less sensitive to rough terrain, can be ready for fire faster, [usually] have better supporting devices such as gyroscopes and GPS, can relocate faster, can deploy in a better protected locations or in small and dense locations and it is basically better in any other parameter I can think of when it comes to conventional warfare which involves intense firing and moving.

So why use towed artillery, you ask?

Because everything I mentioned above comes with high cost:

  • Cost in developing and producing the self-propelled guns.
  • Cost of maintenance - 500hp+ diesel engines, complex hydraulics, wiring, Continuous track, skilled mechanics and technicians for all these sub-systems and other aspects which cost a fortune to maintain compared to towed guns.
  • Cost and long-term availability of parts which most are produced specifically for this type of vehicles, as opposed to towing trucks which can be easily replaced.
  • Cost of training - I can’t testify for every military in the world, but where I come from, properly training a team of self-propelled gun took 2 months while towed gun crew could be trained in 2–3 weeks, not to mention that engine-hours for training cost more in orders of magnitude. This also means a faster turn around time to replace missing men, if needed. On top of that, operating SP guns required special skills for each member of the crew, skills that you lost if you haven’t done it often enough (extremely important for reserve units). With towed units you simply have one team leader, one guy responsible for aiming and all the rest are performing roles which are easily refreshed after 1–2 hours in the field.
I’m sure there are some things I missed. The bottom line is that towed artillery is something many countries can afford obtaining in large numbers without draining their defense budget. However, while towed guns are great on static battle, i.e. standing in one place for days and providing firepower, they are a nightmare (compared to self propelled) when they need to move away from paved roads and travel around sand dunes or rocky terrains. Try just once to take a U-turn with a towed guns battery over such road and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
Towed are required in Kashmir where we are lacking in quality and quantity

What's the benefit of towed Artillery? Nowadays, if you can't redeploy to another position after firing in couple of minute, you are dead.
https://defense-update.com/20110608...tillery-fire-locating-redeployed-in-iraq.html
The radar are precise detection and location systems designed to find enemy artillery, mortar and rocket firing positions. The radar also predicts impact zones and transmits data to friendly forces, allowing time for effective counter-fire tactics.
We need them in LOC and Working Boundary
 
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Towed are required in Kashmir where we are lacking in quality and quantity


We need them in LOC and Working Boundary
LOC is terrain, road is limited. Towed is very hard to U turn in narrow road, if not possible.
 
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I hope none of us is clearly suggesting that SP Artillery be used in mountainous terrain. If yes, how will it be moved up using the roads?

No but is there a shortfall in light weight artillery pieces? Something that can be taken to a peak on a Mi-17.
 
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Then it's alright dear. It is otherwise always good to have air transportable Artillery, enables you to shift your firepower quickly.

Does India have a lot of these compared to Pakistan or is the balance relatively even? (I don't know so asking my friend)
 
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Does India have a lot of these compared to Pakistan or is the balance relatively even? (I don't know so asking my friend)

Dear
It Is not only Artillery , you also require a large number of helis as well to transport them, which means you need to first have atleast air superiority, preferably air supremacy.

In our scenarios, that might not be possible.

Then heli lifting Artillery is one thing. What about hundreds of rounds of ammo per gun?

More number of helis?
 
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Then it's alright dear. It is otherwise always good to have air transportable Artillery, enables you to shift your firepower quickly.
AH-4 and M777 is not easy to shift firepower quickly(less than 2 minutes). It will take quite a while, it's risky.

PLA produced AH-4 for export (UAE), but didn't use it at home at all. One reason is China lack heavy transportation Helicopter, the other reason it's not an easy job to redeploy artillery in Kashmir by Helo.

A few AH-4/M777 won't help much, we need SH-15 in big numbers to suppress rival.

@PanzerKiel better answered. Using helo and M777 is a not an easy tactic. India Army like fancy stuff, bling bling, like a woman. While PLA and PAF are pragmatic.
 
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I hope none of us is clearly suggesting that SP Artillery be used in mountainous terrain. If yes, how will it be moved up using the roads?

@viva_zhao
I hope you are not suggesting that SP Artillery will be moving ON ROADS while they are moving in the mountains?

@viva_zhao
I hope you are not suggesting that SP Artillery will be moving ON ROADS while they are moving in the mountains?

My point is, be it tanks or SP Artillery or APCs, it is a bad idea to move them on roads, since tracked vehicles damage the roads badly.
That's why, you must have seen, mechanized forces are transported to the battlefield in 30 meter long tank transporters.

So, how again, keeping in view the narrow, generally one way, mountainous roads, do they allow you the traverse for moving these t tank transporters?

Do all bridges in mountainous terrain have the capacity to take the load of 50 tons vehicles... Transporters plus SP guns loaded on them?

Then as far as employment is concerned, assuming that SP Artillery is deployed within mountains... In order to operate or, you have to start it, it's a whole system based on a vehicle... Imagine the whole valley being drowned by noise of the engines of one SP Artillery battery about to go into action? First thing you'll lose will be the surprise factor.

@viva_zhao
I hope you are not suggesting that SP Artillery will be moving ON ROADS while they are moving in the mountains?



My point is, be it tanks or SP Artillery or APCs, it is a bad idea to move them on roads, since tracked vehicles damage the roads badly.
That's why, you must have seen, mechanized forces are transported to the battlefield in 30 meter long tank transporters.

So, how again, keeping in view the narrow, generally one way, mountainous roads, do they allow you the traverse for moving these t tank transporters?

Do all bridges in mountainous terrain have the capacity to take the load of 50 tons vehicles... Transporters plus SP guns loaded on them?

Then as far as employment is concerned, assuming that SP Artillery is deployed within mountains... In order to operate or, you have to start it, it's a whole system based on a vehicle... Imagine the whole valley being drowned by noise of the engines of one SP Artillery battery about to go into action? First thing you'll lose will be the surprise factor.

Moreover, SP Artillery does grant you the mobility to move around etc... But you may not find enough space to move around in mountains in contrast to plains or deserts.
 
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@viva_zhao
I hope you are not suggesting that SP Artillery will be moving ON ROADS while they are moving in the mountains?



My point is, be it tanks or SP Artillery or APCs, it is a bad idea to move them on roads, since tracked vehicles damage the roads badly.
That's why, you must have seen, mechanized forces are transported to the battlefield in 30 meter long tank transporters.

So, how again, keeping in view the narrow, generally one way, mountainous roads, do they allow you the traverse for moving these t tank transporters?

Do all bridges in mountainous terrain have the capacity to take the load of 50 tons vehicles... Transporters plus SP guns loaded on them?

Then as far as employment is concerned, assuming that SP Artillery is deployed within mountains... In order to operate or, you have to start it, it's a whole system based on a vehicle... Imagine the whole valley being drowned by noise of the engines of one SP Artillery battery about to go into action? First thing you'll lose will be the surprise factor.



Moreover, SP Artillery does grant you the mobility to move around etc... But you may not find enough space to move around in mountains in contrast to plains or deserts.
SH-15 is less than 25 tons.
 
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