Featured SH15 Artillery in Pakistan

[vi-va]

Dear, a big consignment of SH15 and T5-52 guns was approved last year. One of these guns is purely for our offensive formations, while the other is for our defensive formations.



SP Artillery, c since it is overall a vehicle, so it can't go everywhere, especially hilly or mountainous terrain. Arranging its fuel and oils is another thing. It's also difficult to maintain it, since the crew has to maintain the gun as well as the vehicle itself. Then it's much heavier than towed Artillery. Difficult to hide as well. More attractive target. Just some points.

The design philosophy of SH15 and T5-52 guns are completely different.
T5-52 is a truck with a gun.
While SH15 is a gun with a truck. PLA requirement for SH15 regarding accuracy is at least the same as PLZ-05.
Basically all other truck-mounted 155mm howitzer accuracy is lower than tracked self-propelled howitzer.

 

[Arsalan]

Dear, a big consignment of SH15 and T5-52 guns was approved last year. One of these guns is purely for our offensive formations, while the other is for our defensive formations.



SP Artillery, c since it is overall a vehicle, so it can't go everywhere, especially hilly or mountainous terrain. Arranging its fuel and oils is another thing. It's also difficult to maintain it, since the crew has to maintain the gun as well as the vehicle itself. Then it's much heavier than towed Artillery. Difficult to hide as well. More attractive target. Just some points.

No T5-52 coming boss. In fact, Nora B-52 had a better chance but even that is not coming for now.
Right now, its is just SH-15, 100 + 200 units which MAY go upto another 200 units.

 

[PanzerKiel]

No T5-52 coming boss. In fact, Nora B-52 had a better chance but even that is not coming for now.
Right now, its is just SH-15, 100 + 200 units which MAY go upto another 200 units.

I didn't say they are coming. But it's confirmed both were approved. How big the order was, for which gun is a different thing.

The design philosophy of SH15 and T5-52 guns are completely different.
T5-52 is a truck with a gun.
While SH15 is a gun with a truck. PLA requirement for SH15 regarding accuracy is at least the same as PLZ-05.
Basically all other truck-mounted 155mm howitzer accuracy is lower than tracked self-propelled howitzer.

That is probably the reason why both of these were considered for procurement. Rest, news are around in favor of SH15.

 

[Arsalan]

I didn't say they are coming. But it's confirmed both were approved. How big the order was, for which gun is a different thing.



That is probably the reason why both of these were considered for procurement. Rest, news are around in favor of SH15.

Sir that is what i am saying boss. By saying that these were approved you mean approved for procurement right?
I am saying that we are not going to procure T5-52. I think you have read/heard about the examples being brought in for testing (first and second phase). That is what that approval must have been for because for procurement the results for Nora B-52 were found to be better than T5-52!

Only SPH (wheeled) we will be going for is SH-15 for now. As for order numbers it is 100 + 200.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Sir that is what i am saying boss. By saying that these were approved you mean approved for procurement right?
I am saying that we are not going to procure T5-52. I think you have read/heard about the examples being brought in for testing (first and second phase). That is what that approval must have been for because for procurement the results for Nora B-52 were found to be better than T5-52!

Only SPH (wheeled) we will be going for is SH-15 for now. As for order numbers it is 100 + 200.

Thanks dear.
By approval, I meant they were approved after trials as suitable. Procurement is entirely a different thing.

I heard similar, good things about Nora.

 

[Arsalan]

Thanks dear.
By approval, I meant they were approved after trials as suitable. Procurement is entirely a different thing.

I heard similar, good things about Nora.

Well that is it then. Yes they both passed the trials and thus they were both "approved" or cleared technically. What i know is that after trials (where Nora were claimed to have performed better) at negotiation stage, both Nora and T5-52 fell off. That is, there are not orders for T5-52. Only wheeled SPH we are going to procure right now is the SH-15.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well that is it then. Yes they both passed the trials and thus they were both "approved" or cleared technically. What i know is that after trials (where Nora were claimed to have performed better) at negotiation stage, both Nora and T5-52 fell off. That is, there are not orders for T5-52. Only wheeled SPH we are going to procure right now is the SH-15.

300+ is a huge number. It makes sense to produce these in house?

 

[LKJ86]

While SH15 is a gun with a truck. PLA requirement for SH15 regarding accuracy is at least the same as PLZ-05.

PCL-181 and SH-15 are not the same one...

 

[Aasimkhan]

Dear, a big consignment of SH15 and T5-52 guns was approved last year. One of these guns is purely for our offensive formations, while the other is for our defensive formations.



SP Artillery, c since it is overall a vehicle, so it can't go everywhere, especially hilly or mountainous terrain. Arranging its fuel and oils is another thing. It's also difficult to maintain it, since the crew has to maintain the gun as well as the vehicle itself. Then it's much heavier than towed Artillery. Difficult to hide as well. More attractive target. Just some points.

SP artillery is not heli-transportable for mountanous areas.

 

[vi-va]

PCL-181 and SH-15 are not the same one...

what's the difference exactly? I don't see it.

 

[LKJ86]

what's the difference exactly? I don't see it.

ZTQ-15 and VT-5 also look the same...

 

[vi-va]

PCL-181 and SH-15 are not the same one...

I don't think so.

ZTQ-15 and VT-5 also look the same...

that could be different, understandable.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

We need to add Towed Artillery too

 

[waz]

I have a very stupid question...mainly bcuz I don't know much about artillery...
What advantage does towed artillery offer over self propelled?
...besides cost I can't think of any.

The self propelled artillery can shoot and scoot faster, probably has better electronics(built into the vehicle), etc. Could u please enlighten me?

Nothing is silly about your question bro, ask away.
The best response I have ever seen was from an American solider who serves in an artillery unit and has experience of both self-propelled and towed. I can't name the forum but here, it's detailed;



Since I’ve served in both, I can sum it up as following:

When talking about the same caliber guns (155mm) and not some toys you can mount on a helicopter, self propelled is better in any aspect related to the mission: it moves faster, deploys faster, less sensitive to rough terrain, can be ready for fire faster, [usually] have better supporting devices such as gyroscopes and GPS, can relocate faster, can deploy in a better protected locations or in small and dense locations and it is basically better in any other parameter I can think of when it comes to conventional warfare which involves intense firing and moving.

So why use towed artillery, you ask?

Because everything I mentioned above comes with high cost:

• Cost in developing and producing the self-propelled guns.
• Cost of maintenance - 500hp+ diesel engines, complex hydraulics, wiring, Continuous track, skilled mechanics and technicians for all these sub-systems and other aspects which cost a fortune to maintain compared to towed guns.
• Cost and long-term availability of parts which most are produced specifically for this type of vehicles, as opposed to towing trucks which can be easily replaced.
• Cost of training - I can’t testify for every military in the world, but where I come from, properly training a team of self-propelled gun took 2 months while towed gun crew could be trained in 2–3 weeks, not to mention that engine-hours for training cost more in orders of magnitude. This also means a faster turn around time to replace missing men, if needed. On top of that, operating SP guns required special skills for each member of the crew, skills that you lost if you haven’t done it often enough (extremely important for reserve units). With towed units you simply have one team leader, one guy responsible for aiming and all the rest are performing roles which are easily refreshed after 1–2 hours in the field.

I’m sure there are some things I missed. The bottom line is that towed artillery is something many countries can afford obtaining in large numbers without draining their defense budget. However, while towed guns are great on static battle, i.e. standing in one place for days and providing firepower, they are a nightmare (compared to self propelled) when they need to move away from paved roads and travel around sand dunes or rocky terrains. Try just once to take a U-turn with a towed guns battery over such road and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.

SP systems are more survivable, partly because their cabs are armored, but also because they can emplace and displace quicker, while towed systems have to be disconnected from the towing vehicle, wrestled into position and reconnected to the towing vehicle before they can move. The extra time exposes them to counter-battery fire longer than comparable SP systems.

 

[vi-va]

We need to add Towed Artillery too

What's the benefit of towed Artillery? Nowadays, if you can't redeploy to another position after firing in couple of minute, you are dead.
https://defense-update.com/20110608...tillery-fire-locating-redeployed-in-iraq.html
The radar are precise detection and location systems designed to find enemy artillery, mortar and rocket firing positions. The radar also predicts impact zones and transmits data to friendly forces, allowing time for effective counter-fire tactics.

@waz better answered. Your rival is India Army, not some backward illiterate easy rival. India has radar to detect your position in a minute, and ready to fire back in couple of minutes.

SH-15 can redeploy in 1 minute, 1 minute! It makes huge difference, live or dead.

Once redeployed, Sh-15 can start firing after 1 minute, in a speed of 5+ rounds/minute, then you must redeploy and keep firing. That's the only way to survive.