Sexual harassment at LUMS, don’t blame the university!

[Jf Thunder]

cant see

 

[rockstar08]

They are pretty stupid. ANP first gave refuge to Taliban under name of Pushtun nationalism. It was only a matter of time before ANP was going to get butchered by Taliban.

As for PPP they are nothing but a great obstacle for progress of Karachi. They have done everything to keep Karachi like a backward Sindhi goth. One day I hope Sindhi people rise up and give spanking to people like Bilo rani and Zardari.

nationalism is everywhere ..... including in Balouch and punjabi and as well ...but people were never been so bad with each other ... political parties used our jahil awaam for their evil purpose ... Divide and rule policy is still on..

 

[airmarshal]

the answer was that you should have laughed with hem a bit, it was light humor from their side most probably, i dont think they would want to do anything with your number

interesting answer.Now flip the genders. Dont you think that would be sexual harassment?

In Pakistan its difficult to be a woman. I say this being a man. I say this because what happens to women on street, like staring them down, cat calls and ogling and then passing sexual comments is simply disrespectful and hateful. I have never done any of this but it happens around all the time.

Part of the reason is that we are not Muslim. If we were, we would have known the respect a woman is given being a wife, sister and a mother. We are only ritual Muslim and not in spirit.

The other reason being gender segregation. This invites inquisitiveness and men being instinctively hunters, go out to 'hunt' women in whatever way they can. That is why in true Muslim society, an early marriage is recommended. But look at our society. The lewd acts against women are an easy way out as frustration grows in society due to class,sect and linguistic boundaries we have set.

This frustration exists in women too. But they express their frustration in a more controlled manner.

 

[Musalman]

This is not the first time some teacher in LUMS fired on sexual harassment charges. Few years back a professor, who was my junior in the CA firm, was also fired on the same charges.

 

[airmarshal]

Could this also be that LUMs is where most upper class students come to study and professors and other students might not belong to the same class?

 

[airmarshal]

My wife was LUMS graduate. When she starting working, she was so harassed, she had to quit in weeks. So its not just university, girls life is a hell everywhere.

 

[Cat Shannon]

You are right but in the case of teachers flirting or saying inappropriate things girls can give a befitting reply instead of remaining quiet.

They should. Bring their brothers and cousins when the prof is about to leave uni for home...better still in his home in front of his mother and wife.

 

[livingdead]

Very big problem In South Asia. I don't know why people there love to stare at other people.

I cant stop staring at people... or animals. or any mildly interesting object..

 

[Spring Onion]

@levina @Mugwop @Spring Onion @Sidak

my post... ( Sexual harassment at LUMS, don’t blame the university! | Page 3 )

you have many posts so which one you want me to reply to ?

 

[jamahir]

you have many posts so which one you want me to reply to ?

my first one on this thread... the one i linked in the brackets...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Stupid teachers and even stupider laws!

Such idiots should not just be sacked but not allowed EVER in the academics! Like their academic career should be demolished!

these are the people who should be lynched .. just beaten silly not burnt or killed but beaten like plump

 

[VCheng]

these are the people who should be lynched .. just beaten silly not burnt or killed but beaten like plump

Sir, you do realize that "lynched" means the "killing of someone by a mob, especially by hanging, for an alleged offense", which makes your statement self-contradictory.

 

[krash]

I'm sorry but Read This Post!


Wait wait wait.......not this 'amount to nothing', social outcast again. I know the guy well, was my junior, really bad actor, worse writer, embarrassment. Quite a few of these socialist wannabes from LUMS (Mostly law majors) have been writing BS articles on Express. And when you confront them they run away. Take it on my guarantee that most of what they spew is rubbish. Do you guys remember that BS article about PDA in LUMS by a newly religious girl? I'll proceed to dissect this article:

The Verdict
Sexual harassment at LUMS, don’t blame the university!
By Shehzad Ghias an hour ago
l
View attachment 141372

In Pakistan, instances of men “inadvertently” touching women are all too common. Girls are taught to ignore it, to avoid creating a ‘scene’. Not only does society silence the woman, our very laws discourage women from reporting cases of violence against them.

True

Yesterday, news broke out of the Federal Ombudsman directing the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS) to fire a teacher from the law department for allegedly sexually harassing a student. I graduated from this very department a mere two years ago. Upon hearing the news, my reaction was not one of disbelief. I did not wonder, “How could this happen at LUMS?” but rather “which one of them finally got caught”.

This is utter nonsense. We used to pride ourselves on ripping instructors apart every chance we got, from academics to ethics, you'll see examples below. Any graduate from LUMS would tell you that this is beyond disbelief.

Having served in both the student council and the law student council at LUMS, multiple cases of sexual harassment were reported to me by students. All of these girls decided not to pursue their legitimate cases for fear of their reputations being tarnished. They did not want to “create a scene”.

I cannot confirm or deny the legitimacy of this kid's claim however I will report that the student councils in LUMS were full of impotent outcasts who never did anything accept try to have their existence acknowledged by joining this council from which every self respecting student abstained.

One student was harassed incessantly by an admin staff member; he took her number from a form submitted to the office and constantly texted her. She did not report him; she did not want to “create a scene”.

Now this gets interesting, must read. This incident happened with a very close friend of mine. She proceeded to yell the hell out of that admin guy in front of the PDC. That admin guy's name is Col.Amir, a dishonourably discharged moron who was given a job at the Uni by his corrupt then-VC uncle, Ahmed Jan Durrani. It was as big a scene as you can imagine, after which we all congratulated her and told her that she should have called us to spectate.

Another student caught a worker hired by LUMS pleasuring himself in front of her. She walked away; she did not want to “create a scene”.

This was not a LUMS employee but an outsourced labourer. Know this girl personally too, was my senior, used to call her PG, a little crazy in the noggin but a nice person. She immediately got hold of a couple of guards and took them to the said windowsill where she thought she saw a guy with his hand in his shalwar. The guy was never seen again. This happened in my freshman year and thus this author of our's was still doing his A'levels and nowhere near LUMS. A scene was indeed created.

One student walked into class wearing a sleeveless top and her professor exclaimed,

“Girls who dress like this, their mothers do not sleep at their homes at night.”

She quietly went to her seat; she did not want to “create a scene”.

Hahaha! This was in our Stats class, the instructor's name is Mian Haneef, an old arse who is a pseudo mullah. The girl again I know very well, was my batch-mate and friend. Immediately after those words Mr. Haneef got an earful from the girl and everyone else in the class too and then got reported to the department and then never said anything of the sort again, though he continued to be an epic arse. A class before I had personally put Mr.Haneef down in his class for being an A-hole, gave me a C+ even though I obviously deserved better, had another altercation with him a year later. Him getting thrashed by his students was a usual occurrence in his class. This kid, being a junior, was not in that class.

There were even unsubstantiated rumours of teachers and students dating

Really? Always are in every university.

and teaching assistants dating or teaching assistants and students dating.

The teaching assistants are also students of LUMS and can date any student they want. I was a TA too and, believe it or not, did date through out the period.

However, it would be foolish of you to think that LUMS is the problem. The problem is that we do not have a larger conversation about sexual harassment in the country. LUMS, at least, has a sexual harassment policy in place. Other universities where this is common, these things do not even attract censure to make the news. Students from various government colleges and schools have even held protests about facing harassment at their educational institutions. However, they were not taken seriously.

Schools all over Lahore are bubbling with gossip about teachers and students dating. A prominent school in Lahore caught a theatre teacher and a student crossing the teacher-student relation boundaries on school premises but the incident was brushed under the carpet.

True

LUMS seeks to serve as a model for schools and universities across the country. In all my interactions with board of trustees at LUMS, I found people like Syed Babar Ali and Mr Abdul Razak Dawood to be visionary people, but they are not involved in the day-to-day happenings at the university.

What interactions? Heard them speak in the 25th LUMS anniversary video? Give me a break, the author never met the guys.

LUMS prides itself on equality; a large section of the student body comes from the National Outreach Programme (NOP), and there is no visible discrimination based on sex, gender, religion or ethnicity. However, if the people at the top do not hold the culprits responsible, then these principles will stand in name alone.

Very true.

As the student representative of the disciplinary committee at LUMS, I have observed several proceedings. My conclusion is that the hearings violate all principles of justice; students are assumed guilty and it is their responsibility to prove their innocence. The disciplinary committee has flatly refused in the past to hear of any cases against faculty members. The only time the committee actually acts against faculty members is when a political faction within the university professors wants a professor out.

True. I've experienced this first hand, got 2 quarters off even though they accepted that I had done nothing wrong. This kid (author) also got separated for a while, and if I remember correctly, on flimsy grounds too.

I could name people involved in flagrant violations of the LUMS policies, and the principles it stands for, but the problem is not LUMS. Despite its flaws, it stands as an institution that at least allows its students to voice their concerns.

However, the appointments in the last five years in key offices risk politicising the university and martialling a restriction of freedom for students but news of sexual harassment at LUMS should open a larger conversation about sexual harassment in the country.

We should not socialise girls in Pakistan to not ‘create a scene’. There are rampant cases of molestations and sexual assaults in Pakistan, which go unreported, even to family members. Women are taught to just live with it but we should tell them to create a scene, to report the perpetrators and seek to bring them to justice.

There is a real need to break the complacency regarding the question of sexual harassment that plagues our society. The educational institutions should be safe havens for girls, every school and university in Pakistan should offer a safe place for them to report cases of sexual harassment.

Let us start encouraging our girls to report it rather than shaming, or blaming, them. Generations have suffered in silence, and I think it is about time we have this conversation. The schools and universities, for one, are a great place to start.

No argument there.


This is what happens when you write articles from loosely heard gossip embedded with an agenda. These socialist wannabes of our's were always an embarrassment for the rest of us, but not bad people per se, they just idealized a Marxist instructor of their's too much.


Edit:

Almost forgot. In this case the professor was in discussion with the said student (in class) and briefly placed his hand on her shoulder while passing by. The rest of the students in the class have testified to this and the faculty is actually supporting the instructor. The picture in the drawing would make you believe otherwise wouldn't it?

 

[Bratva]

I'm sorry but Read This Post!


Wait wait wait.......not this 'amount to nothing', social outcast again. I know the guy well, was my junior, really bad actor, worse writer, embarrassment. Quite a few of these socialist wannabes from LUMS (Mostly law majors) have been writing BS articles on Express. And when you confront them they run away. Take it on my guarantee that most of what they spew is rubbish. Do you guys remember that BS article about PDA in LUMS by a newly religious girl? I'll proceed to dissect this article:




True



This is utter nonsense. We used to pride ourselves on ripping instructors apart every chance we got, from academics to ethics, you'll see examples below. Any graduate from LUMS would tell you that this is beyond disbelief.



I cannot confirm or deny the legitimacy of this kid's claim however I will report that the student councils in LUMS were full of impotent outcasts who never did anything accept try to have their existence acknowledged by joining this council from which every self respecting student abstained.



Now this gets interesting, must read. This incident happened with a very close friend of mine. She proceeded to yell the hell out of that admin guy in front of the PDC. That admin guy's name is Col.Amir, a dishonourably discharged moron who was given a job at the Uni by his corrupt then-VC uncle, Ahmed Jan Durrani. It was as big a scene as you can imagine, after which we all congratulated her and told her that she should have called us to spectate.



This was not a LUMS employee but an outsourced labourer. Know this girl personally too, was my senior, used to call her PG, a little crazy in the noggin but a nice person. She immediately got hold of a couple of guards and took them to the said windowsill where she thought she saw a guy with his hand in his shalwar. The guy was never seen again. This happened in my freshman year and thus this author of our's was still doing his A'levels and nowhere near LUMS. A scene was indeed created.



Hahaha! This was in our Stats class, the instructor's name is Mian Haneef, an old arse who is a pseudo mullah. The girl again I know very well, was my batch-mate and friend. Immediately after those words Mr. Haneef got an earful from the girl and everyone else in the class too and then got reported to the department and then never said anything of the sort again, though he continued to be an epic arse. A class before I had personally put Mr.Haneef down in his class for being an A-hole, gave me a C+ even though I obviously deserved better, had another altercation with him a year later. Him getting thrashed by his students was a usual occurrence in his class. This kid, being a junior, was not in that class.



Really? Always are in every university.



The teaching assistants are also students of LUMS and can date any student they want. I was a TA too and, believe it or not, did date through out the period.



True



What interactions? Heard them speak in the 25th LUMS anniversary video? Give me a break, the author never met the guys.



Very true.



True. I've experienced this first hand, got 2 quarters off even though they accepted that I had done nothing wrong. This kid (author) also got separated for a while, and if I remember correctly, on flimsy grounds too.



No argument there.


This is what happens when you write articles from loosely heard gossip embedded with an agenda. These socialist wannabes of our's were always an embarrassment for the rest of us, but not bad people per se, they just idealized a Marxist instructor of their's too much.


Edit:

Almost forgot. In this case the professor was in discussion with the said student (in class) and briefly placed his hand on her shoulder while passing by. The rest of the students in the class have testified to this and the faculty is actually supporting the instructor. The picture in the drawing would make you believe otherwise wouldn't it?

and this too

» The love life of LUMS students | The Dawn Blog | Pakistan, Cricket, Politics, Terrorism, Satire, Food, Culture and Entertainment

 

[krash]

and this too

» The love life of LUMS students | The Dawn Blog | Pakistan, Cricket, Politics, Terrorism, Satire, Food, Culture and Entertainment

Hahaha this article is exactly the one I was talking about.

Do you guys remember that BS article about PDA in LUMS by a newly religious girl?

The girl's name was Tajwar, she had recently been taken under the fold of Kamaludin's (instructor at lums) warped Islamic sect. I'll just go with a brief answer,

Contrary to the article's claim, Ms. Tajwar found no support except from Mazhar Chinnoy who was SO's head (claimed to be some project coordinator by the article) at that time. Most believed that it was him who made her send out that mass email, never got proven though. The student body as a whole opposed her views and claims. It was a slam fest to be honest, I wish I still had access to my mailbox. Her own friends disowned her publicly, all of them wore shuttle burkas. She remained an outcast after that and no steps were taken in support of her email by the admin due to the overwhelming opposition by the student body (which had a sizeable number of religious people, btw). Why did this happen? Read on

Her claims were bs to say the least. The three examples she gave were apparently only seen by her, even though the places where she puts them have tens of students around 24/7. These things did happen but away from prying, thirsty eyes, 'behind closed doors', so to speak, as in every other place. Unless Ms. Tajwar went out on missions to spot intimate couples invading their privacy like a modern day pseudo-religious batman (her recently adorned black burka :p ), I doubt she saw anything. And I can bet my left family stone that the three examples she gave never happened.

The thing about LUMS, rather the brilliance about LUMS was that you were free to choose who ever you wanted to be. You were given many different avenues to explore, learn from and then decide for yourself. I've seen guys and girls go from shorts and tights to white turbans and black shuttle burkas and vice versa. Lums was a place where maulvis taught you sociology and marxism while feminist atheists taught you Islamic religious anthropology. And only you decided which courses you took. God I miss that time.

The problem about LUMS is that apparently the rest of Pakistan believe's that its a little piece of Amsterdam left behind by the British. It was funny seeing students from other Uni's come over and think that they could drink and smoke up openly, they were kicked out of the campus.

In a video interview Babar Ali was asked what his most favourite thing about LUMS was and he replied that every time he comes to the campus and sees a guy in a turban with his shalwar above his ankles talking freely with a girl who's wearing tight jeans, it makes his day. Do you not see? This is exactly how an academic institute must be like, nay any society must be like. We had students from every social, societal, religious and economic class of Pakistan, studying and living together without anyone giving two thoughts about the others' beliefs, background, standing, etc. Not just the frequently claimed 'elitists'. You were free to decide your own path and what you wanted to do. You could question everything and everyone, and we did. People from all over the place were brought over so we could question them ourselves; Noam Chomsky, DG ISPR, Bugti's son, Imran Khan, you name it. The courses were a small part of what LUMS was, this ^^^ is what really defined LUMS. Bloody brilliant...

We had tons of proper Moulvis running LUMS too, Tariq Jadoon (Associate Dean), Arif Zaman (former Associate Dean and a genius), Basit Kohshal (HOD SS), to name only a few, who were extremely well educated and understood all of this and never ever targeted a student for his different beliefs or tried to curb the freedom. And then there was also Kamaludin's cult -_-


PS: The author is stupid enough to take a student's overly sarcastic email as a confession of sinning *facepalm*. Our people like gossip, they eat it up, especially about the 'other'. We never really cared while we were there, only care now because these moronic ideals must be changed if we want to get anywhere.

Wasn't brief at all :p