Sensitive Data of Indian Navy’s Scorpene Class Submarines Leaked

[PARIKRAMA]

For Frak's sake - What is DCNS? A McDonald's or a Walmart????

And the switchroo from intial blaming India to then backing out of that. Not informing India directly which is impacted but informing Australians first. It is highly embarrassing that DM had to be woken up in the middle of night by an aide who saw the Aussie paper report online instead of being given prior information by DCNS which knew about it atleast a day before. DM said so himself..@PARIKRAMA why is that DCNS didn't inform India directly?

I expect MoD to refute this chain of event else India would have lost lot of credibility.

Again a long post.. apologies in advance and please bear with me.. its a fascinating story fr me.


Well guess what.. the subscription to the Australian newspaper is pretty high..
Now you think any aide in the middle of the night will wake up say DM MP and show him over laptop or tab this news report? and yes that also using the same like me "google cache" and DM MP will swing into action?

Secondly if DCNS has not informed under any pretense, you think DM MP will not shy away from saying bluntly or calling up French folks and asking what the hell is happening? why you folks did nt inform us?

Now comes the long part... you read this part
the data was removed from DCNS in Paris in 2011 by a former French Navy officer who quit the service in the early 1970s and worked for French defence companies for more than 30 years before becoming a subcontractor to DCNS.

Sources say they believe this subcontractor somehow copied the sensitive data from DCNS in France and, along with a French colleague, took it to a Southeast Asian country. If so, he broke the law and may face prosecution.

The two men worked in that Southeast Asian country carrying out unclassified naval defence work.

The speculation is that the data on the Scorpene was removed to serve as a reference guide for the former naval officer’s new job, but it is unclear why anyone would risk breaking the law by taking classified data for such a purpose.

The two men are then said to have the fallen out with their employer, a private company run by a Western businessman. They were sacked and refused re-entry to their building. At least one of the men asked to retrieve the data on the Scorpene but they were refused and the company — possibly not knowing the significance of the data — held on to it.

and
He replies: “In the wake of the recent future submarine decision (in Australia) this matter went from one of a very serious breach for both France and India to a matter of national security significance to Australia and the US.”

In other words, he wants Australia to know that its future submarine partner, France, has already lost control of secret data on India’s new submarines. His hope is that this will spur the Turnbull government and DCNS to step up security to ensure Australia’s $50 billion submarine project does not suffer the same fate.

He says he is a whistleblower and maintains that revealing to the world, via The Australian, that this classified data exists in a dangerously uncontrolled form is worthwhile because it will serve Australia’s interests even if it causes an international furore.


I was waiting for this really.

• First thing.. Data was removed in Paris 2011. Lets establish properly a timeline 2011 data leaked
• On June 7th 2011 the first local indigenisation component for scorpene was signed and delivery happened of the component in Feb 2012. Here is the irrefutable proof

Source: http://www.ambafrance-in.org/Delivery-of-first-locally-produced
Thats french embassy in New Delhi website.

• Now a leak in 2011, data of prior periods and a manual containing all technical specs for which contract for indian production local parts started inking in June 7th 2011 with Flash Forge, the first company in India to sign the contract and begin its work for 1st scorpene now in sea trials.
• The construction of Kalavari began in 2009 and it was waiting for multiple sub systems to arrive for the submarine to be under construction in 2011 and 2012 also when parts started arriving.
• In simple words other than the basic hull being constructed all the important equipment were more or less started going inside the sub in 2012 (FF work is properly towards fitting inside the submarine and its a JV company for TOT part)

So can anyone understand how operational manuals are there for a submarine where equipment inside is infact not made or even contracted? Do you make operational manual for a system like a submarine where order of systems are not even given or contracted? and that also for the very 1st submarine?

You understood the whole thing now.. why i had been lying with cool head and saying stuff all through last couple of days...

@Abingdonboy @hellfire @Vergennes @Ankit Kumar 002 @GuardianRED https://defence.pk/members/bregs.148509/ @anant_s @all others

Read slowly, digest and assimilate what i am trying to say.. connect the dots.. you will understand..

Tagging the world
Pls enlighten me for post #526.

@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @Vergennes @randomradio @Ankit Kumar 002 @MilSpec @Koovie @Echo_419 @Dash @hellfire @ito @SR-91 @AMCA @DesiGuy1403 @ranjeet @hellfire @fsayed @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @proud_indian @Roybot @jbgt90 @Sergi @Water Car Engineer @dadeechi @kurup @Rain Man @kaykay @Joe Shearer @Tshering22 @Dandpatta @danger007 @Didact @Soumitra @SrNair @TejasMk3@jbgt90 @ranjeet @4GTejasBVR @The_Showstopper @guest11 @egodoc222 @Nilgiri @SarthakGanguly @Omega007 @GURU DUTT @HariPrasad @JanjaWeed @litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular @Spectre@litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular@Ryuzaki @CorporateAffairs @GR!FF!N @migflug @Levina@SvenSvensonov @-xXx- @Perpendicular @proud_indian @Mustang06 @Param @Local_Legend @Ali Zadi @hellfire @egodoc222 @CorporateAffairs @Major Shaitan Singh @jha @SmilingBuddha @#hydra# @danish_vij @[Bregs] @Skillrex @Hephaestus @SR-91 @Techy @litefire @R!CK @zebra7 @dev_moh @DesiGuy1403 @itachii @nik141993 @Marxist @Glorino @noksss @jbgt90 @Skull and Bones @Kraitcorp @Crixus @waz @WAJsal @Oscar @AugenBlick @Star Wars @GuardianRED @arp2041 @Aero @others

 

[GuardianRED]

Again a long post.. apologies in advance and please bear with me.. its a fascinating story fr me.


Well guess what.. the subscription to the Australian newspaper is pretty high..
Now you think any aide in the middle of the night will wake up say DM MP and show him over laptop or tab this news report? and yes that also using the same like me "google cache" and DM MP will swing into action?

Secondly if DCNS has not informed under any pretense, you think DM MP will not shy away from saying bluntly or calling up French folks and asking what the hell is happening? why you folks did nt inform us?

Now comes the long part... you read this part
the data was removed from DCNS in Paris in 2011 by a former French Navy officer who quit the service in the early 1970s and worked for French defence companies for more than 30 years before becoming a subcontractor to DCNS.

Sources say they believe this subcontractor somehow copied the sensitive data from DCNS in France and, along with a French colleague, took it to a Southeast Asian country. If so, he broke the law and may face prosecution.

The two men worked in that Southeast Asian country carrying out unclassified naval defence work.

The speculation is that the data on the Scorpene was removed to serve as a reference guide for the former naval officer’s new job, but it is unclear why anyone would risk breaking the law by taking classified data for such a purpose.

The two men are then said to have the fallen out with their employer, a private company run by a Western businessman. They were sacked and refused re-entry to their building. At least one of the men asked to retrieve the data on the Scorpene but they were refused and the company — possibly not knowing the significance of the data — held on to it.

and
He replies: “In the wake of the recent future submarine decision (in Australia) this matter went from one of a very serious breach for both France and India to a matter of national security significance to Australia and the US.”

In other words, he wants Australia to know that its future submarine partner, France, has already lost control of secret data on India’s new submarines. His hope is that this will spur the Turnbull government and DCNS to step up security to ensure Australia’s $50 billion submarine project does not suffer the same fate.

He says he is a whistleblower and maintains that revealing to the world, via The Australian, that this classified data exists in a dangerously uncontrolled form is worthwhile because it will serve Australia’s interests even if it causes an international furore.


I was waiting for this really.

• First thing.. Data was removed in Paris 2011. Lets establish properly a timeline 2011 data leaked
• On June 7th 2011 the first local indigenisation component for scorpene was signed and delivery happened of the component in Feb 2012. Here is the irrefutable proof

View attachment 329257
Source: http://www.ambafrance-in.org/Delivery-of-first-locally-produced
Thats french embassy in New Delhi website.

• Now a leak in 2011, data of prior periods and a manual containing all technical specs for which contract for indian production local parts started inking in June 7th 2011 with Flash Forge, the first company in India to sign the contract and begin its work for 1st scorpene now in sea trials.
• The construction of Kalavari began in 2009 and it was waiting for multiple sub systems to arrive for the submarine to be completely constructed in 2011 also and 2012 also when parts started arriving.
• In simple words other than the basic hull being constructed all the important equipment were more or less started going inside the sub in 2012 (FF work is properly towards fitting inside the submarine and its a JV company for TOT part)

View attachment 329258


So can anyone understand how operational manuals are there for a submarine where equipment inside is infact not made or even contracted? Do you make operational manual for a system like a submarine where order of systems are not even given or contracted? and that also for the very 1st submarine?

You understood the whole thing now.. why i had been lying with cool head and saying stuff all through last couple of days...

@Abingdonboy @hellfire @Vergennes @Ankit Kumar 002 @GuardianRED https://defence.pk/members/bregs.148509/ @anant_s @all others

Read slowly, digest and assimilate what i am trying to say.. connect the dots.. you will understand..

Tagging the world
Pls enlighten me for post #526.

@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @Vergennes @randomradio @Ankit Kumar 002 @MilSpec @Koovie @Echo_419 @Dash @hellfire @ito @SR-91 @AMCA @DesiGuy1403 @ranjeet @hellfire @fsayed @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @proud_indian @Roybot @jbgt90 @Sergi @Water Car Engineer @dadeechi @kurup @Rain Man @kaykay @Joe Shearer @Tshering22 @Dandpatta @danger007 @Didact @Soumitra @SrNair @TejasMk3@jbgt90 @ranjeet @4GTejasBVR @The_Showstopper @guest11 @egodoc222 @Nilgiri @SarthakGanguly @Omega007 @GURU DUTT @HariPrasad @JanjaWeed @litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular @Spectre@litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular@Ryuzaki @CorporateAffairs @GR!FF!N @migflug @Levina@SvenSvensonov @-xXx- @Perpendicular @proud_indian @Mustang06 @Param @Local_Legend @Ali Zadi @hellfire @egodoc222 @CorporateAffairs @Major Shaitan Singh @jha @SmilingBuddha @#hydra# @danish_vij @[Bregs] @Skillrex @Hephaestus @SR-91 @Techy @litefire @R!CK @zebra7 @dev_moh @DesiGuy1403 @itachii @nik141993 @Marxist @Glorino @noksss @jbgt90 @Skull and Bones @Kraitcorp @Crixus @waz @WAJsal @Oscar @AugenBlick @Star Wars @GuardianRED @arp2041 @Aero @others

This would suggest that the manual were made to atleast train a crew to be familiar with the equipment PARALLEL to the building of the Subs. This Same crew will stand to be instructors to understand and make new manuals, protocols and procedures for the following dedicated Crews that will eventually manned the subs!

 

[Spectre]

Now you think any aide in the middle of the night will wake up say DM MP and show him over laptop or tab this news report

Well to be fair, DM himself said that he was woken up in middle of night by his aid with this news while it's clear from the report that DCNS was asked for quotes atleast a day before and then subsequently informed Australian Admiral.

As for rest of your post - Give me time to absorb - there is lot of data.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

This would suggest that the manual were made to atleast train a crew to be familiar with the equipment PARALLEL to the building of the Subs. This Same crew will stand to be instructors to understand and make new manuals, protocols and procedures for the following dedicated Crews that will eventually manned the subs!

assuming that submarine progam is late.. will you get a Indian Navy insignia based operational manual for a customised scorpene submarine?
where will you train a crew when there is no similar sub in the world with same specs.. Unless its a classroom training..

supposing your point of view is correct, then how will the manual have specs with finer points when contract is not even signed for many systems which can have better than the specs mentioned or parts being swapped by another OEM.

imagining if the manual is correct is not it the least form of rough specs for academic/technical purposes but for authorized personnels distribution (restricted)?

can you see where i am now trying to point..

 

[GuardianRED]

assuming that submarine progam is late.. will you get a Indian Navy insignia based operational manual for a customised scorpene submarine?
where will you train a crew when there is no similar sub in the world with same specs.. Unless its a classroom training..

supposing your point of view is correct, then how will the manual have specs with finer points when contract is not even signed for many systems which can have better than the specs mentioned or parts being swapped by another OEM.

imagining if the manual is correct is not it the least form of rough specs for academic/technical purposes but for authorized personnels distribution (restricted)?

can you see where i am now trying to point..

U are trying to say that it a possibility that these might be older existing manuals BUT as a cruel Joke, Slapped the IN Insignia and other markings on it to pass as the manuals for the IN scorpene program?

+ The IN and MoD hasn't yet denied or accepted that these are the manuals for the programs (have they?)

 

[PARIKRAMA]

U are trying to say that it a possibility that these might be older existing manuals BUT as a cruel Joke, Slapped the IN Insignia and other markings on it to pass as the manuals for the IN scorpene program?

Hail wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpène-class_submarine

Operational Manuals from boats prior made.. possibly with basic changes to incorporate general stuff offered to India . manual is not classified which gets updated over multiple versions and access gets reduced based on authority and level of additions..

and something interesting

The Chilean Scorpene will have a hull-mounted medium-frequency active / passive sonar. The vessels are armed with WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaquei) Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes.

SUBTICS COMBAT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM

The SUBTICS combat management system, with up to six multifunction common consoles and a centrally situated tactical table, is collocated with the platform-control facilities.

The combat management system is composed of a command and tactical data handling system, a weapon control system and an integrated suite of acoustic sensors with an interface to a set of air surface detection sensors and to the integrated navigation system. The system can also download data from external sources.

The integrated navigation system combines data from global positioning systems, the log, depth measurement and the ship's trim / list monitoring system. The Scorpene monitors the environment including seawater density and temperature and the submarine's own noise signature.

SONAR SUITE

The vessel's sonar suite includes a long-range passive cylindrical array, an intercept sonar, active sonar, distributed array, flank array, a high-resolution sonar for mine and obstacle avoidance and a towed array.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/ssk-scorpene-attack-submarine-chile.4978/

Kindly check for the PDFs shared again.. Do you see what i see here..

 

[Ali Zadi]

Again a long post.. apol...

That is exactly what I was thinking and thought the year might have been fudged/misreported. The other possibility is using a preexisting model/manual for basic training not advance system specific training.

But I still think the leak is of paramount importance specially for people who have had no expose to any Scorpene will get a look at what a standard submarine has to offer. Its like you buy a car add a turbo in it and 4x4 and other nic-knacks the base of the car will remain the same, the structural integrity and things like true speed, angle speed, etc are hard to change unless you change the composition/structure/etc.

 

[nik22]

There may be other documents which are not in public domain yet.

MOD should not issue any statement in haste that it does not compromise scorpene program ...

 

[GuardianRED]

Hail wikipedia

View attachment 329259
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpène-class_submarine

Operational Manuals from boats prior made.. possibly with basic changes to incorporate general stuff offered to India . manual is not classified which gets updated over multiple versions and access gets reduced based on authority and level of additions..

and something interesting






Source: https://defence.pk/threads/ssk-scorpene-attack-submarine-chile.4978/

Kindly check for the PDFs shared again.. Do you see what i see here..

DAMN!... what @EagleEyes posted was in 2007!!!! Its has the same quotes!!!!

 

[PARIKRAMA]

DAMN!... what @EagleEyes posted was in 2007!!!! Its has the same quotes!!!!

Finally the pieces will come together.. The more The Australian reporter reveals the more it will become easier to conclude more confidently.

@Nilgiri - In here..
@Blue Marlin - You will love this story now developing with the story behind the leakage part..

 

[Blue Marlin]

Finally the pieces will come together.. The more The Australian reporter reveals the more it will become easier to conclude more confidently.

@Nilgiri - In here..
@Blue Marlin - You will love this story now developing with the story behind the leakage part..

actualy @Levina discovered webby changed his user name to eagleeyes and made him self a new account

 

[PARIKRAMA]

+++

Lets add some more news here

Paris prosecutor opens investigation into naval contractor DCNS data leak

A logo is seen at the industrial site of the naval defence company and shipbuilder DCNS in La Montagne near Nantes, France, April 26, 2016.REUTERS/Stephane Mahe/Files

The Paris public prosecutor opened a preliminary investigation after French naval contractor DCNS filed a complaint for breach of trust over a leak of documents concerning six Scorpene submarines it is building for India, a judicial source said.

DCNS was left reeling after details from more than 22,000 pages of documents relating to submarines it is building for India were published in The Australian newspaper this week, sparking concerns about the company's ability to protect sensitive data.

"We filed a complaint against unknown persons for breach of trust with the Paris prosecutor on Thursday afternoon," a spokesman for the shipbuilder said on Friday.

The Paris prosecutor's office opened an investigation for breach of trust, receiving stolen goods and complicity, the judicial source said later on Friday.

A French government source said on Thursday that DCNS had apparently been robbed and it was not a leak, adding it was unlikely that classified data was stolen.

The Australian government said on Friday it had asked DCNS to take new security measures in Australia, where the company is locked in exclusive negotiations to build a new fleet of submarines for 50 billion Australian dollars ($38 bln).

DCNS said earlier this week that the leak, which covered details of the Scorpene-class model and not the vessel currently being designed for the Australian fleet, bore the hallmarks of "economic warfare" carried out by frustrated competitors.

($1 = 1.3104 Australian dollars)

(Reporting by Cyril Altmeyer and Gerard Bon; Writing by Bate Felix; Editing by Susan Fenton)

http://in.reuters.com/article/franc...CN1110PK?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter

@Vergennes @BON PLAN
Looks like the battle started there legally

 

[GuardianRED]

https://twitter.com/x/status/769191033930387456

https://twitter.com/DailyO_/status/769191033930387456
This guy is enjoying his 15mins of fame!

 

[sathya]

By breach of secrecy, can India install measures without OEM consent ?

 

[GuardianRED]

This Aussie reporter reminded me of another Aussie Story that sent Shockwave to the world During the CWG 2010 India

Episode 34, 27 September 2010

Defusing an explosive story
Channel Seven's explosive investigation into New Delhi's Commonwealth Games security sent shockwaves around the world. However, as Media Watch discovered, what looked like a major breach of security by reporter Mike Duffy was not quite what it seemed. And was Duffy's suitcase, which we were led to believe contained a remote detonation device that 'could flatten an entire building', just another artifice in this carefully constructed story?
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3023099.htm

This story was picked up by our lovely local houses and ran almost everyday, putting additional blame on the security arrangements. BUT In the end This Aussie report was completely a hoax and disproved by another aussie network, and what did our media do? quietly buried the story and didn't even report that the whole story was a hoax to begin with!