Sensitive Data of Indian Navy’s Scorpene Class Submarines Leaked

[Hellfire]

View attachment 328687

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2016/08/3-reasons-why-scorpeneleak-is-a-big-worry.html

Can someone explain to me.. one line and its significance.. The red one..

Look i really wish to understand that a crew deployed in kilo class boat , stated currently deployed, will they surface in the middle of the sea to check with their android cellphone and check for a internet connectivity and browse to see the news and also receive our Shiv Aroor's (livefist) call and give this statement? or say use a laptop and a dongle to check all this?


@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Nilgiri @anant_s @hellfire @MilSpec @Ankit Kumar 002 @zebra7 @Vergennes ..

I may be wrong so pls correct me bcz i for someone dont think during Kilo operational deployment you get such luxuries.. Wont such a call or communication give out the critical location of the sub in the first place?

This one is epic i guess from every Defence reporting standard

Awesome, reporting!!

But being deployed with a boat does not mean that you are out in sea. It denotes you are assigned to the boat at the present as opposed to staff appointment at headquarters.

Kilo is so cramped, that I support triple of their hardship allowance!!!!

 

[Nilgiri]

View attachment 328687

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2016/08/3-reasons-why-scorpeneleak-is-a-big-worry.html

Can someone explain to me.. one line and its significance.. The red one..

Look i really wish to understand that a crew deployed in kilo class boat , stated currently deployed, will they surface in the middle of the sea to check with their android cellphone and check for a internet connectivity and browse to see the news and also receive our Shiv Aroor's (livefist) call and give this statement? or say use a laptop and a dongle to check all this?


@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Nilgiri @anant_s @hellfire @MilSpec @Ankit Kumar 002 @zebra7 @Vergennes ..

I may be wrong so pls correct me bcz i for someone dont think during Kilo operational deployment you get such luxuries.. Wont such a call or communication give out the critical location of the sub in the first place?

This one is epic i guess from every Defence reporting standard

Maybe he means "currently-deployed" as not out in the sea but part of a Kilo-sub crew.

*Shrug* I can never tell what some defence journos mean/claim these days since they tend to use quite some latitude in their reporting.

 

[Hellfire]

@PARIKRAMA

But with network centric integration, a surfaced Kilo can technically access world wide web and post a rebuttal to your comment of being able to track him ...

He will say hello and challenge you to find him...bloody cheeky sods they are

 

[A_Poster]

"acoustic signatures" - example of us indians Being Dramatic!

How can acoustic signatures of sub be leaked EVEN before the sub is finished being built or haven't had sea trails

But, even if Acoustic signature of vanilla submarines from archives is leaked, would it not narrow down the range in which enemy would have to look. I mean acoustic signature of modified Indian submarine could not be widely different from a plain scorpene submarine.

@PARIKRAMA @Nilgiri @Ankit Kumar 002

Though on positive side, if your enemy has knowledge about the band in which your unfinished submarine would be emitting, small changes in under-construction submarine could actually make the information with enemy, counterproductive for him.

 

[GuardianRED]

View attachment 328687

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2016/08/3-reasons-why-scorpeneleak-is-a-big-worry.html

Can someone explain to me.. one line and its significance.. The red one..

Look i really wish to understand that a crew deployed in kilo class boat , stated currently deployed, will they surface in the middle of the sea to check with their android cellphone and check for a internet connectivity and browse to see the news and also receive our Shiv Aroor's (livefist) call and give this statement? or say use a laptop and a dongle to check all this?


@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Nilgiri @anant_s @hellfire @MilSpec @Ankit Kumar 002 @zebra7 @Vergennes ..

I may be wrong so pls correct me bcz i for someone dont think during Kilo operational deployment you get such luxuries.. Wont such a call or communication give out the critical location of the sub in the first place?

This one is epic i guess from every Defence reporting standard

Yes Shiv Aroor - the same guy who wrote an article as well as a news report on India Today About a Total Lapse of security from DRDO about a live (warhead) missile prahaar begin stuck at a port and worried about chinese stealing it!

Yes we trust him (saying Sarcastically)

 

[PARIKRAMA]

But, even if Acoustic signature of vanilla submarines from archives is leaked, would it not narrow down the range in which enemy would have to look. I mean acoustic signature of modified Indian submarine could not be widely different from a plain scorpene submarine.

@PARIKRAMA @Nilgiri @Ankit Kumar 002

Though on positive side, if your enemy has knowledge about the band in which your unfinished submarine would be emitting, small changes in under-construction submarine could actually make the information with enemy, counterproductive for him.

Acoustic signature of a submarine is only known when the product finished hits the testing on sea for extended period of time and under different conditions/speed and depth its recorded and finally added to IFF Library.

In essence every material used to additions and deletion in terms of customization can vastly change teh signature print of a submarine.

Fortunately such a signature print is not there to be shared as first Kalavari undergoing sea trials as of now and hence there is no question of any acoustic signature being leaked ..

Even if suppose via different means our adversaries come to know of a band in which such submarines can be found and use complex tracking methods and algorithms, there is also another big friend of ours who protects us .. Tahts the second point...

The second point is a very beautiful phenomena in the war waters surrounding IOR (near the equator the warm waters)

thats by Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat in a telegraph newspaper report
here: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160825/jsp/frontpage/story_104361.jsp

Thus this is why there are additional layers of protection there... Recall a recent exercise where a US SSn versus Kilo sub in Indian exercise happened and SSN could not detect kilo. Now we can be clear that US has the most sophisticated tech in its sub and yet it could not detect kilo sub.. It tells you the potential challenges... Even though they have already got signature of Kilo subs in their library via NATO allies, yet this result.. Thus, there is much more to just the signature

The third angle is the crew and its experience +capability. Even a greenhorn with the best machine can be a fail case, but a good crew under a good leader can defy everything and yet come out on top. Sufficient to say, with kilo experience already, Scorpene crew folks would have incorporated small but important learning from training and seniors.. This will matter a lot and will provide the vital difference between winning and losing..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Why the generalisation?
In this case being dramatic is justified!!
Leak of sensitive documents is no small issue...
We don't know what other files got leaked?
What if they contain performance parameters or even worse what if they contain acoustic signatures of the sub?

@Nilgiri @PARIKRAMA

 

[NKVD]

@Nilgiri @PARIKRAMA

Acoustic signature of the subs which are unconstructed yet

What a fail this guy is he don't know shit

Each subs has different patterns of noises
Which also depends upon depth ,water etc how will anybody can asses it without sea trials

 

[GuardianRED]

But, even if Acoustic signature of vanilla submarines from archives is leaked, would it not narrow down the range in which enemy would have to look. I mean acoustic signature of modified Indian submarine could not be widely different from a plain scorpene submarine.

@PARIKRAMA @Nilgiri @Ankit Kumar 002

Though on positive side, if your enemy has knowledge about the band in which your unfinished submarine would be emitting, small changes in under-construction submarine could actually make the information with enemy, counterproductive for him.

Well The acoustic signatures is a closely guarded secret that obtaining a base signature would be from existing boats in service , ie from the Chilean and Malaysian navies (the French themselves haven't got these boats in service)

BUT with each boat distinct in its manufacturing process, materials used, sensors, place of operations. to narrow it down to an IN Sub is extremely difficult

 

[NKVD]

Well The acoustic signatures is a closely guarded secret that obtaining a base signature would be from existing boats in service , ie from the Chilean and Malaysian navies (the French themselves haven't got them)

BUT with each boat distinct in its manufacturing process, materials used, sensors, place of operations. to narrow it down to an IN Sub is extremely difficult

Acoustic signature are different from different subs

Like Harley Davidson engine each have different patterns of noises

Without sea trials no one can asses what is actual acoustic signature of subs has

I don't how can one leak acoustic signature details of unconstructed Subs

 

[Abingdonboy]

The Augusta Westland deal was soaked in corruption & even the Italians agreed on that, odd to see you use that. Nothing so-called about that scam.

"Soaked in corruption" and yet not a SINGLE prosecution (in either country) in 5 years now? A lot of mud slinging is going on that's for sure but it is not clear exactly what wrongdoing is supposed to have been done.

Either way, the point that @GuardianRED made still stands; in that case, the "Saintly" defence minister cancelled an essential deal (despite deliveries having already begun) without waiting for due process to run its course and the wrongdoing exposed. The end result? Assets that were critically required are sat mothballed and u/s at Palam whilst the 30+ year old machines they were meant to replace are still lumbering on endangering their passengers (who just happen to be the most senior officals in India) and crews. As always the military had to pay for the failures of their (civilian) so-called leaders.

The IN is down to 13 (relatively old) SSKs whilst it is facing an ever expanding sub-surface threat in its own backyard, of course now is the PERFECT time to cancel the Scorpene (and follow on) deal, right?

This is warfare by other means, not with bullets or torpedos but through espionage and through the (paid) Indian media.

Acoustic signature of the subs which are unconstructed yet

What a fail this guy is he don't know shit

Each subs has different patterns of noises
Which also depends upon depth ,water etc how will anybody can asses it without sea trials

No no bro, it is perfectly possible to leak signatures in 2011 that the IN and OEM (DCNS) don't even have in 2016.

 

[Indrajit]

"Soaked in corruption" and yet not a SINGLE prosecution (in either country) in 5 years now? A lot of mud slinging is going on that's for sure but it is not clear exactly what wrongdoing is supposed to have been done..

Not a single prosecution? There are people sitting in jail in Italy after being convicted.

 

[Abingdonboy]

View attachment 328687

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2016/08/3-reasons-why-scorpeneleak-is-a-big-worry.html

Can someone explain to me.. one line and its significance.. The red one..

Look i really wish to understand that a crew deployed in kilo class boat , stated currently deployed, will they surface in the middle of the sea to check with their android cellphone and check for a internet connectivity and browse to see the news and also receive our Shiv Aroor's (livefist) call and give this statement? or say use a laptop and a dongle to check all this?


@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Nilgiri @anant_s @hellfire @MilSpec @Ankit Kumar 002 @zebra7 @Vergennes ..

I may be wrong so pls correct me bcz i for someone dont think during Kilo operational deployment you get such luxuries.. Wont such a call or communication give out the critical location of the sub in the first place?

This one is epic i guess from every Defence reporting standard

Shiv Aroor is a sensationlist hack who rarely attempts to hide his bias, lack of technical knowledge or even that he has been bought off by certain foreign OEMs.

The part about the sub officer giving this hack updates whilst on deployment are utterly hilarious but the sad thing is many Indians will swallow this nonsense.

Not a single prosecution? There are people sitting in jail in Italy after being convicted.

Are there? What have they been charged with?

 

[Indrajit]

The IN is down to 13 (relatively old) SSKs whilst it is facing an ever expanding sub-surface threat in its own backyard, of course now is the PERFECT time to cancel the Scorpene (and follow on) deal, right?

Didn't make that argument but are you suggesting that we should just pretend that nothing happened? The follow on is definitely a big question mark until the situation becomes clearer.

This is warfare by other means, not with bullets or torpedos but through espionage and through the (paid) Indian media.

In which case we have a partner, DCNS who doesn't seem up to the task (the enemies would have to include not just the paid Indian media also the paid Australian media......).

 

[Abingdonboy]

In which case we have a partner, DCNS who doesn't seem up to the task .

It's far too early to be making such claims. Now I do doubt some claims that all that was leaked was effectively a fleshed out "brochure" but I also know that it is nonsense to suggest that some of the most critical parameters of India's Scorpenes are known to others when their own user (IN) hasn't recorded them as of yet. The truth exists somewhere in the middle.

Having said that, I am not willing to write off DCNS just yet, a lot depends on what happens next (DCNS/Franch govt tackling/prosecution of these leaks) and the steps DCNS takes to recover its damaged reputation. I don't see the fact that FAR more sensitive details were hacked by the Chinese from Lockhead Martin about the F-35 factoring into the minds of many when they prescribe India looking at that white elephant or when looking at India's dealings with LM as an OEM.