Selling F-16 Jets To Pakistan Won’t Help Combat Terrorism: Manohar Parrikar

[Abingdonboy]

I know it was during the Kargil War but that does not change the fact that it is hardly new, that precision air strikes are highly effective against insurgents no matter who they are. India carries them out, Russia does in Syria, the US does in Iraq against ISIS, Pakistan does against her insurgent enemies.

Who are you trying to kid? Precsion airstrikes can be conducted by platforms other than fast jets, if it truly is the case that Pakistan is to use these in COIN activites then it doesn't need the latest Block 52s with improved A2A performance. It could have got far more cost effective platforms like the Super Tucano.

We all know the reason Pakistan is getting these F-16s, why try to hide behind their tired rhetoric? This is the nonsense they spout to the USG to placate them and push through such aid but I'm surprised a US military vetran such as yourself is so eager to support an enemy that has actively seen to it that so many of your fellow brothers in arms never made it home from Afghanistan.

 

[MilSpec]

I know exactly who they were which has no bearing whatsoever, on the point I was making about the use of precision airpower in combating them.

Precision ground strike capabilites with the lack of any AD is different from combating 7th largest military in the world with Substantial AD.

Precision strike for Afghanistan :- A29 Super Tucano
Precision Strike for Pakistan :- F16 Blk 52 with Aim 9x and Aim120C5.

both paid by CSF, - fueled by American tax payers money. There is no need for weak anti-terror arguments, If US wan'ts to arm Pakistan against India, it's fine. That has been US policy for decades, and we don't mind at all. but all this natural ally BS can be stopped , right?

 

[Shariq786]

Who are you trying to kid? Precsion airstrikes can be conducted by platforms other than fast jets, if it truly is the case that Pakistan is to use these in COIN activites then it doesn't need the latest Block 52s with improved A2A performance. It could have got far more cost effective platforms like the Super Tucano.

We all know the reason Pakistan is getting these F-16s, why try to hide behind their tired rhetoric? This is the nonsense they spout to the USG to placate them and push through such aid but I'm surprised a US military vetran such as yourself is so eager to support an enemy that has actively seen to it that so many of your fellow brothers in arms never made it home from Afghanistan.

Precision ground strike capabilites with the lack of any AD is different from combating 7th largest military in the world with Substantial AD.

Precision strike for Afghanistan :- A29 Super Tucano
Precision Strike for Pakistan :- F16 Blk 52 with Aim 9x and Aim120C5.

both paid by CSF, - fueled by American tax payers money. There is no need for weak anti-terror arguments, If US wan'ts to arm Pakistan against India, it's fine. That has been US policy for decades, and we don't mind at all. but all this natural ally BS can be stopped , right?

And your Point is let us induct 126 MKI's and 100's of Migs Mirages and Jags (tejas still to get FOC ) and Rafale but if PAK get 120 F-16 its a pure threat ??? Insecurity or hypocrisy i can not decide ???

BTW your comment about " US military vetran such as yourself is so eager to support an enemy that has actively seen to it that so many of your fellow brothers in arms never made it home from Afghanistan"
I m sorry but they were part of all this which happened in afghanistan "NO OFFENCE"

 

[Desertfalcon]

I have no problem US selling 16s to anyone in the world, but please ask them to talk sense and truth.

The sense and truth of it is that they are about 90% likely to use them to fight insurgents and only about 10% likely to use them against India.

 

[Abingdonboy]

And your Point is let us induct 126 MKI's and 100's of Migs Mirages and Jags (tejas still to get FOC ) and Rafale but if PAK get 120 F-16 its a pure threat ??? Insecurity or hypocrisy i can not decide ???

126 MKIs? My dear, the figure is >300.

And Pakistan can buy what it wants but at least be transparent about it, don't hide behind "anti terror" efforts to get advanced varients of the F-16 to be used against men running around in sandels with AKs. If I was a US taxpayer I would be more than a little frustrated though that my government bought this bare faced lie and that I was subsidising this sale (it is being funded by US aid money).

 

[Desertfalcon]

Who are you trying to kid?

No one. I'm just a retired USAF officer with twenty years of experience who knows what he is talking about. Are you? Here's a clue for you, the vast majority of USAF F-16 combat missions since about 2004, have been precisely the type of missions we are talking about.

 

[MilSpec]

And your Point is let us induct 126 MKI's and 100's of Migs Mirages and Jags (tejas still to get FOC ) and Rafale but if PAK get 120 F-16 its a pure threat ??? Insecurity or hypocrisy i can not decide ???

Dear sir,
India's MKI's, Rafales, Mirages or Jags, do not come out of Coalition Support fund. You can buy 500 F16's if you want , the keyword being "Buy", but if US government is subsidizing your armed forces under the garb of anti-terrorism, it is a legitimate concern.

US is more than free to tell India, it is none of your business an we will like to give F16's for free to Pakistan, to fight India, what we protest is the duplicity.

No one. I'm just a retired USAF officer with twenty years of experience who knows what he is talking about. Are you? Here's a clue for you, the vast majority of USAF F-16 combat missions since about 2004, have been precisely the type of missions we are talking about.

@Abingdonboy please be respectful.

regards.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Precision ground strike capabilites with the lack of any AD is different from combating 7th largest military in the world with Substantial AD.

Precision strike for Afghanistan :- A29 Super Tucano
Precision Strike for Pakistan :- F16 Blk 52 with Aim 9x and Aim120C5.

both paid by CSF, - fueled by American tax payers money. There is no need for weak anti-terror arguments, If US wan'ts to arm Pakistan against India, it's fine. That has been US policy for decades, and we don't mind at all. but all this natural ally BS can be stopped , right?

As I just told another poster, that the F-16 is somehow, not suited to precision strikes against insurgents would come as a complete surprise to the USAF as that is precisely how they have been utilized in the overwhelming majority of combat missions flown by us, for over a decade now.

 

[Viper0011.]

Fri, 11 Mar 2016-07:27pm , New Delhi , PTI
"India does not agree with the US rationale that such arms transfers help to combat terrorism," Parrikar said.

Just like Rafale being bought from France for the Indian AF, can't stop Hindu extremists from doing religious terrorism and killing their minorities in India in scores...? I wondered why the two faced hypocrisy and crying so much over just 8 jets (soon to be 18 by the way).

And don't write me bullshiit about funds and all. The issue is morals, ethics, and human right violations on each side.

 

[Spectre]

Dear sir,
India's MKI's, Rafales, Mirages or Jags, do not come out of Coalition Support fund. You can buy 500 F16's if you want , the keyword being "Buy", but if US government is subsidizing your armed forces under the garb of anti-terrorism, it is a legitimate concern.

US is more than free to tell India, it is none of your business an we will like to give F16's for free to Pakistan, to fight India, what we protest is the duplicity.


@Abingdonboy please be respectful.

regards.

I thought the subsidy portion over and above the CSF was on hold. CSF is dicey because a legitimate arguments can be made that Pakistan earned it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

No one. I'm just a retired USAF officer with twenty years of experience who knows what he is talking about. Are you? Here's a clue for you, the vast majority of USAF F-16 combat missions since about 2004, have been precisely the type of missions we are talking about.

What can a F-16 do in the realm of delivering precsion strike that a Super Tucano can't do? The only thing one could argue is the speed (ie a reduction in time to target) but in that case, why does Pakistan need Blk.52s when an early F-16 would do the job just as well?

And I'm sure those AMRAAMs and Sidewinders that are coming as part of this package are to deal with the TTP's F-22s?

 

[Shariq786]

126 MKIs? My dear, the figure is >300.

And Pakistan can buy what it wants but at least be transparent about it, don't hide behind "anti terror" efforts to get advanced varients of the F-16 to be used against men running around in sandels with AKs. If I was a US taxpayer I would be more than a little frustrated though that my government bought this bare faced lie and that I was subsidising this sale (it is being funded by US aid money).

Its US and Pak deal why should we be transparent to you who are you in all this ?? NO ONE for us and even for US won't take dictation for who to sell what for what purpose from you niether we gonna take any piece of advise of what to procure for what role !!

Secondly by that you mean US using A-10's F-16's F-22's F-18's and F-15's to bomb areas where there were no AD's such as syria Iraq and Afganistan were totally useless

3rd and the last the arcraft you suggested are not in PAF inventory so inducting them would take 2 3 years plus 2 3 years of delivery time take it to 5 to 6 year procedure which is not worth it so getting a already in use platform which can use modern day smart weapons is better and faster way to do the job we like to do things fast not like the way INDIA does it with TEJAS and RAFALE ....

 

[MilSpec]

As I just told another poster, that the F-16 is somehow, not suited to precision strikes against insurgents would come as a complete surprise to the USAF as that is precisely how they have been utilized in the overwhelming majority of combat missions flown by us, for over a decade now. Anyone with any combat experience in tactical airpower, would know that.

Dear sir,

i am not doubting the prowess of the platform as a precision strike platform, but lets not forget that F16 is one of the premier a2a combat platform as well, these Blk52 will come with Aim 9x and Aim120C5's, now in my limited knowledge I don't know of taliban with flying carpets that these will be utilised against.

What I am refering to is quite simple, you could have leased the jets to pakistan, to ensure that you are not arming pakistan against India with US tax payer money, but you are not doing so. If you do want to subsidize pakistan's military ambitions against India, be striaghtforward about it, it's nothing new US has done so for decades.

Selling and providing military aid are two different things.

 

[Shariq786]

What can a F-16 do in the realm of delivering precsion strike that a Super Tucano can't do? The only thing one could argue is the speed (ie a reduction in time to target) but in that case, why does Pakistan need Blk.52s when an early F-16 would do the job just as well?

And I'm sure those AMRAAMs and Sidewinders that are coming as part of this package are to deal with the TTP's F-22s?

CSF funds are like the duties PAK performed for the US army in Afghanistan than includes transportations and casualties + money spent of this war its no aid its pay back terms

 

[Desertfalcon]

What can a F-16 do in the realm of delivering precsion strike that a Super Tucano can't do? The only thing one could argue is the speed (ie a reduction in time to target) but in that case, why does Pakistan need Blk.52s when an early F-16 would do the job just as well?

Speed, payload, sophistication in targeting, survivability, range of operations, range of weapons, etc., etc.

And I'm sure those AMRAAMs and Sidewinders that are coming as part of this package are to deal with the TTP's F-22s?

I don't think there was any claim that they could not be used in an air-to-air role, but I'm lost as to why India should have a problem with that as she pursues Rafale/F-18's, do you?