Selex ES radar & other technology on JF-17?

[Bilal Khan 777]

Thanks for the enlightenment on 1St hand knowledge.

What are the limitations on the Il-76 assets available?

How many Il-76 trips are need for each JF-17 built?

My line of thought being say, 2 il-76 trips for each JF-17 built, then then even at a relaxed pace, 2 return flights per week by a single 76 will allow over 50 FC-1s per year.

That is my reasoning.

Please if you can, kindly share the reality

The production lines at Chengdu can still only produce 2 aircraft airframes per month maximum. As i said earlier the limitation is structural parts which China is unable to produce and has to buy from elsewhere. The assembly line at PAC can do only 16 birds a year. Max this will go to is 24, as they are putting together another assembly line. PAC APF production line has been designed to deliver two suites a month. There are a lot of hold ups. However, work is coming along and aircraft are coming off the line.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Never underestimate the capability of the Chinese...lol, but they can build about 30 aircraft a year. The big issue is structural parts of JF17 are not Chinese, and those are very hard to build, and come from other places.

your now speaking nonsense.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

your now speaking nonsense.

No reason to become uncouth Mr. Marlin. What you don't understand may appear non-sense to you. Stay happy in your bubble.

 

[araz]

your now speaking nonsense.

On what grounds are you making this statement? Please rather than indulging in insults give out solid reasons for your answer. The next time you will either be reported or given a negative rating. So whatever your problem keep it civil here.
A

 

[Blue Marlin]

On what grounds are you making this statement? Please rather than indulging in insults give out solid reasons for your answer. The next time you will either be reported or given a negative rating. So whatever your problem keep it civil here.
A

i found thats a as polite gesture of someone talking Bs. anyway this is what he said:
" Never underestimate the capability of the Chinese...lol, but they can build about 30 aircraft a year. The big issue is structural parts of JF17 are not Chinese, and those are very hard to build, and come from other places."
the first part in blue is just a made up claim without any evidence. the pink part makes no sense. structural parts of the jf-17 are not Chinese!? also he did not say where the "other places were"

as far as im concerned that post was useless and was asking for a more aggressive response.

also on what grounds does is deserve to be given a negative rating or to be reported. im only giving my opinion and its not exactly offensive. its like me saying pakistan as 100 jf 17's in service, never underestimate pakistan.

 

[araz]

The production lines at Chengdu can still only produce 2 aircraft airframes per month maximum. As i said earlier the limitation is structural parts which China is unable to produce and has to buy from elsewhere. The assembly line at PAC can do only 16 birds a year. Max this will go to is 24, as they are putting together another assembly line. PAC APF production line has been designed to deliver two suites a month. There are a lot of hold ups. However, work is coming along and aircraft are coming off the line.

Bilal Khan .
Can I seek clarity on the statement regarding the Chinese being unable to build structural parts. Are these being built at PAC and if not are we buying them as well from the same source? What are ths reasons that the Chinese cannot build those parts? Help would be appreciated.
A

i found thats a as polite gesture of someone talking Bs. anyway this is what he said:
" Never underestimate the capability of the Chinese...lol, but they can build about 30 aircraft a year. The big issue is structural parts of JF17 are not Chinese, and those are very hard to build, and come from other places."
the first part in blue is just a made up claim without any evidence. the pink part makes no sense. structural parts of the jf-17 are not Chinese!? also he did not say where the "other places were"

as far as im concerned that post was useless and was asking for a more aggressive response.

Agggressiveness in a civil manner perhaps? Telling a senior poster that he is talking non sense is not exactly civil is it? You like me can seek clarification and perhaps if possible for him he will explain the reasons and we all can learn . That was my only point. At all times inspite of what the adversary says keep it civil.
A

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

i found thats a as polite gesture of someone talking Bs. anyway this is what he said:
" Never underestimate the capability of the Chinese...lol, but they can build about 30 aircraft a year. The big issue is structural parts of JF17 are not Chinese, and those are very hard to build, and come from other places."
the first part in blue is just a made up claim without any evidence. the pink part makes no sense. structural parts of the jf-17 are not Chinese!? also he did not say where the "other places were"

as far as im concerned that post was useless and was asking for a more aggressive response.

also on what grounds does is deserve to be given a negative rating or to be reported. im only giving my opinion and its not exactly offensive. its like me saying pakistan as 100 jf 17's in service, never underestimate pakistan.

Something for you to think about. Color coding is great, we were asked to do that when we were 12.
All my claims are made up, and every post is conjecture. However, I am not able to give you copy of contracts or end user certificates.

Try being more aggressive. I shall still ignore you. Responses like yours take away the impetus to educate people about the reality of many programs that you see through the lens of media control.

Bilal Khan .
Can I seek clarity on the statement regarding the Chinese being unable to build structural parts. Are these being built at PAC and if not are we buying them as well from the same source? What are ths reasons that the Chinese cannot build those parts? Help would be appreciated.
A


Agggressiveness in a civil manner perhaps? Telling a senior poster that he is talking non sense is not exactly civil is it? You like me can seek clarification and perhaps if possible for him he will explain the reasons and we all can learn . That was my only point. At all times inspite of what the adversary says keep it civil.
A

Araz, JF17 structural parts(specially load bearing members and main beams inside the wings) are made of a special lightweight alloy steel. This steel is neither forged in China, not are they able to machine it in 3 or 5 axis machines. Most of these parts are outsources to specialised subcontractors in Europe, that make similar parts for the big fighter aircraft manufacturers.

 

[asia2000]

Araz, JF17 structural parts(specially load bearing members and main beams inside the wings) are made of a special lightweight allow steel. This steel is neither forged in China, not are they able to machine it in 3 or 5 axis machines. Most of these parts are outsources to specialised subcontractors in Europe, that make similar parts for the big fighter aircraft manufacturers.

Are you working for one of those subcontractors? I am wondering why US/EU arm exporting embargo to China is ignored by those subcontractors.

 

[atlantis_cn]

Something for you to think about. Color coding is great, we were asked to do that when we were 12.
All my claims are made up, and every post is conjecture. However, I am not able to give you copy of contracts or end user certificates.

Try being more aggressive. I shall still ignore you. Responses like yours take away the impetus to educate people about the reality of many programs that you see through the lens of media control.



Araz, JF17 structural parts(specially load bearing members and main beams inside the wings) are made of a special lightweight allow steel. This steel is neither forged in China, not are they able to machine it in 3 or 5 axis machines. Most of these parts are outsources to specialised subcontractors in Europe, that make similar parts for the big fighter aircraft manufacturers.

Haha, it simply shows you are ignorant of what you are talking about...

DO YOU EVEN KNOW THERE IS AN ARMS EMBARGO ON CHINA SINCE 1989?

Chinese military products have no way to consists of anything sensitive that is made in western country.

STOP BEING A LIAR!

The production lines at Chengdu can still only produce 2 aircraft airframes per month maximum. As i said earlier the limitation is structural parts which China is unable to produce and has to buy from elsewhere. The assembly line at PAC can do only 16 birds a year. Max this will go to is 24, as they are putting together another assembly line. PAC APF production line has been designed to deliver two suites a month. There are a lot of hold ups. However, work is coming along and aircraft are coming off the line.

Why there is always these people who like to pretend they know something on this forum?!

 

[tarrar]

It would have been made possible if the Thunder deal with KSA had materialized. They came seeking a "Block-60" like version of JF-17 with EJ-200 to create commonality with their Typhoon maintenance regime. If KSA got involved in the project or at least invested cash into it on shared profit basis, we would most definitely have seen a JF-17 block with 4++ generation capabilities. The plans and technology do exist but the cash is missing. You can pretty much add anything to this platform given the bills are paid.

View attachment 291097

This is exactly how I want our future JF17 to look like, similar to F16 Block 52+.

Any technology that will help improve our JF17, Pakistan should go for it but of course India will over react & will try its very best to sabotage the deal if taken place with Italy, just like when Pakistan approached France & India cried & promised them to buy Dassault Rafales if they don't help Pakistan.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Are you working for one of those subcontractors? I am wondering why US/EU arm exporting embargo to China is ignored by those subcontractors.

I don't know who I am working for anymore. US origin is your speculation. However, the end user is Pakistan, and the decisions of such licenses are based on country of end use.

For your information, there are many fighter programs in Chengdu where critical parts are still made elsewhere.

Haha, it simply shows you are ignorant of what you are talking about...

DO YOU EVEN KNOW THERE IS AN ARMS EMBARGO ON CHINA SINCE 1989?

Chinese military products have no way to consists of anything sensitive that is made in western country.

STOP BEING A LIAR!



Why there is always these people who like to pretend they know something on this forum?!

This is an opinion blog. Who is pretending? You think I just make up all this information? Growing up would be a good next step for you.

You don't need to use caps lock to get my attention. I don't call anyone a liar, this is an opinion blog. If you don't like my opinion, or it offends your sensibilities that somehow China does everyone on its own in every program, then all power be with you son.

I know all of this is a shock to some of you here, but these are industry realities. This is how the world turns.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

so the question comes back, will there be a Selex AESA on JF17? I predict that it will not be, since Selex will not be able to give an integrated EW suite that goes hand in hand with AESA. It is likely that the final JF17 AESA will be of Chinese origin, but inspired from North American designs.

However, block three will likely feature other western equipment, such as:

Ejection Seat
RWR
MAWS
IRST
Wide Area Display
HUD
HMD

More information will come out this year as these programs proceed.

 

[Quwa]

so the question comes back, will there be a Selex AESA on JF17? I predict that it will not be, since Selex will not be able to give an integrated EW suite that goes hand in hand with AESA. It is likely that the final JF17 AESA will be of Chinese origin, but inspired from North American designs.

However, block three will likely feature other western equipment, such as:

Ejection Seat
RWR
MAWS
IRST
Wide Area Display
HUD
HMD

More information will come out this year as these programs proceed.

I believe the 'integrated EW suite' is essentially RWR, MAWS and ECM. Finmeccanica offers solutions in each of those areas, so they can offer an integrated EW kit alongside the AESA radar. The main issue would be an external EW jamming pod, Finmeccanica doesn't offer one, but I'm not sure if that is dependent on the radar. But if PAF pays up, Finmeccanica can get a working solution going in short order, they already have mastery of the fundamental technology necessary to make it happen. Alternatively, the PAF could source a solution from Airbus Defence and Space or Indra (which was already contracted to equip the Block-II with ECM).

 

[atlantis_cn]

I don't know who I am working for anymore. US origin is your speculation. However, the end user is Pakistan, and the decisions of such licenses are based on country of end use.

For your information, there are many fighter programs in Chengdu where critical parts are still made elsewhere.



This is an opinion blog. Who is pretending? You think I just make up all this information? Growing up would be a good next step for you.

You don't need to use caps lock to get my attention. I don't call anyone a liar, this is an opinion blog. If you don't like my opinion, or it offends your sensibilities that somehow China does everyone on its own in every program, then all power be with you son.

I know all of this is a shock to some of you here, but these are industry realities. This is how the world turns.

I will never say China can make everything on its own. It certainly is not true. But to claim that Chinese military aircraft have to have some structural parts made in Europe is a blatant lie. Everybody here knows that China do not have the means to access Western military technology or products let alone to have some parts of any fighter made in Europe thanks to the arms embargo.

Then why are you lying?

 

[TaimiKhan]

@ Chinese Members, if you guys can't have a civilized discussion then don't come to insults, especially when it relates to members who are far more informed then you.

If you don't like anything said, counter it with arguments / facts / proofs, no insults. Next time i will sent you guys packing if anyone insulted a member without provocation.