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@Azlan Haider good morning!!! :-)
Back to where we had left last nite.
Had India not tried to annex J&K illegally , subcontinent probably would have been a much more peaceful region
India tried to annex J&K??
hmmmm
As far as i know in the october of 1947 pashtuns from north-west frontier province of Pakistan invaded Kashmir. Along the way the tribesmen engaged in looting,plundering and killing of innocent ppl.Ostensibly this was done to threaten maharaja Hari Singh's throne.
Maharaja requested MountBatten for help and signed "instrument of accession" with India,our army entered kashmir only after it was signed and drove out the Pakistan sponsored militants out.
so how did india try to annex J&K??


btw did you say "J" &K??:devil:


Everyone considers guardian a far better source than daily mail. So nope I am not contradicting. Yeah go sleep. As I said you are losing things here with your stupid BS.
Can you speak one sentence without using malodorous words??? :coffee:
Stop ranting Areesh!
And Areesh its not about whether Guardian ir more trustworthy or daily mail?? Its about the carping media which presents a skewed version of everything for its selfish motives.You do get brainwashed easily ,dont you??
 
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Had India not tried to annex J&K illegally , subcontinent probably would have been a much more peaceful region

That's called poor history, Do you know about Brigadier Akbar Khan code named General Tariq who planned the invasion of Kashmir.
 
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Had India not tried to annex J&K illegally , subcontinent probably would have been a much more peaceful region
Why jinnah baba agreed with formula for princely states?.
I have read that india wanted to trade kashmir with hyderabad but that mohajir liaqat ali refused it, he was sentimental about urdu speaking hyderabad.
 
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@Azlan Haider good morning!!! :-)
Back to where we had left last nite.

India tried to annex J&K??
hmmmm
As far as i know in the october of 1947 pashtuns from north-west frontier province of Pakistan invaded Kashmir. Along the way the tribesmen engaged in looting,plundering and killing of innocent ppl.Ostensibly this was done to threaten maharaja Hari Singh's throne.
Maharaja requested MountBatten for help and signed "instrument of accession" with India,our army entered kashmir only after it was signed and drove out the Pakistan sponsored militants out.
so how did india try to annex J&K??


btw did you say "J" &K??:devil:

Good Afternoon .......


Ok ... So you say that Maharaja of Kashmir signed the "instrument of accession" and only then your army entered Kashmir .. hence accession of J&K is legal and valid ....

Although, at first glance, India’s claim to Kashmir appears consistent with international law, a more thorough analysis suggests otherwise !!


1) International law clearly states that every treaty entered into by a member of the United Nations must be registered with the Secretariat of the United Nations. "The Instrument of Accession" was neither presented to the United Nations nor to Pakistan. Hence India cannot invoke the treaty before any organ of the United Nations.


2) The legality of the Instrument of Accession may also be questioned on grounds that it was obtained under coercion. The International Court of Justice has stated that there "can be little doubt, as is implied in the Charter of the United Nations and recognized in Article 52 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, that under contemporary international law an agreement concluded under the threat or use of force is void."..... India’s military intervention in Kashmir was provisional upon the Maharaja’s signing of the Instrument of Accession. More importantly, however, the evidence suggests that Indian troops were pouring into Srinigar even before the Maharaja had signed the treaty. This fact would suggest that the treaty was signed under duress.


3) The Maharaja had no authority to sign the treaty, hence the Instrument of Accession can be considered without legal standing . The situation on the ground demonstrates that the Maharaja was hardly in control of the state of Jammu and Kashmir. Hari Singh was in flight from the state capital, Srinigar. And it is highly doubtful that the Maharaja could claim that his government had a reasonable chance of staying in power .....

Thus, an analysis of the circumstances surrounding the signing of the Instrument of Accession shows that the accession of Kashmir to India was neither complete nor legal, as Delhi has vociferously contended for over sixty years.


Alastair Lamb (in his book, Kashmir - A disputed legacy 1846-1990) points out that the Instrument of Accession could not have been signed by the Mahrajah on 26th October as he was travelling by road to Jammu (a distance of over 350 Km). There is no evidence to suggest that a meeting or communication of any kind took place on 26th October 1947. In fact it was on 27th October 1947 that the Mahrajah was informed by his MC Mahajan and VP Menon (who had flown into Srinagar), the the Instrument of Accession had already been negotiated in Dehli. The Mahrajah did not in fact sign the Instrument of Accession, if at all, until 27th October 1947. This sheds doubts on the actions of the Indian regime


Moreover, further shedding doubt on the treaty`s validity, in 1995 Indian authorities claimed that the original copy of the treaty (letter of accession) was either stolen or lost !!!


The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), based in Geneva, passed a resolution in 1993 proclaiming Kashmir's accession to India as bogus and null and void.


Kashmir: not an integral part of India - thenews.com.pk

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Kashmir: The origins of the dispute

http://icj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/...hmir-fact-finding-mission-report-1995-eng.pdf




Therefore, letter of accession is lost, if not lost, null (declared by ICJ, UN Resolutions and PM Jawaharlal Nehru), if not null, void by the very people its supposed to serve. Even if its not void, the provision of the letter of accession lets the people of J&K decide their fate (according to PM Jawaharlal Nehru)




In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said,:
"We are anxious not to finalise anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity to be given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for them ultimately to decide ------ And let me make it clear that it has been our policy that where there is a dispute about the accession of a state to either Dominion, the accession must be made by the people of that state. It is in accordance with this policy that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession of Kashmir".
 
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Why jinnah baba agreed with formula for princely states?.
I have read that india wanted to trade kashmir with hyderabad but that mohajir liaqat ali refused it, he was sentimental about urdu speaking hyderabad.

Hyderabad was an extremely maldar princely state who's Nizam was the richest man on earth, so it was difficult for to them give up the desire to get the hold of the treasure of Hindu majority Hyderabad completely inside India after their two nation theory.

Good Afternoon .......


Ok ... So you say that Maharaja of Kashmir signed the "instrument of accession" and only then your army entered Kashmir .. hence accession of J&K is legal and valid ....

Although, at first glance, India’s claim to Kashmir appears consistent with international law, a more thorough analysis suggests otherwise !!


1) International law clearly states that every treaty entered into by a member of the United Nations must be registered with the Secretariat of the United Nations. "The Instrument of Accession" was neither presented to the United Nations nor to Pakistan. Hence India cannot invoke the treaty before any organ of the United Nations.


2) The legality of the Instrument of Accession may also be questioned on grounds that it was obtained under coercion. The International Court of Justice has stated that there "can be little doubt, as is implied in the Charter of the United Nations and recognized in Article 52 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, that under contemporary international law an agreement concluded under the threat or use of force is void."..... India’s military intervention in Kashmir was provisional upon the Maharaja’s signing of the Instrument of Accession. More importantly, however, the evidence suggests that Indian troops were pouring into Srinigar even before the Maharaja had signed the treaty. This fact would suggest that the treaty was signed under duress.


3) The Maharaja had no authority to sign the treaty, hence the Instrument of Accession can be considered without legal standing . The situation on the ground demonstrates that the Maharaja was hardly in control of the state of Jammu and Kashmir. Hari Singh was in flight from the state capital, Srinigar. And it is highly doubtful that the Maharaja could claim that his government had a reasonable chance of staying in power .....

Thus, an analysis of the circumstances surrounding the signing of the Instrument of Accession shows that the accession of Kashmir to India was neither complete nor legal, as Delhi has vociferously contended for over sixty years.


Alastair Lamb (in his book, Kashmir - A disputed legacy 1846-1990) points out that the Instrument of Accession could not have been signed by the Mahrajah on 26th October as he was travelling by road to Jammu (a distance of over 350 Km). There is no evidence to suggest that a meeting or communication of any kind took place on 26th October 1947. In fact it was on 27th October 1947 that the Mahrajah was informed by his MC Mahajan and VP Menon (who had flown into Srinagar), the the Instrument of Accession had already been negotiated in Dehli. The Mahrajah did not in fact sign the Instrument of Accession, if at all, until 27th October 1947. This sheds doubts on the actions of the Indian regime


Moreover, further shedding doubt on the treaty`s validity, in 1995 Indian authorities claimed that the original copy of the treaty (letter of accession) was either stolen or lost !!!


The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), based in Geneva, passed a resolution in 1993 proclaiming Kashmir's accession to India as bogus and null and void.


Kashmir: not an integral part of India - thenews.com.pk

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Kashmir: The origins of the dispute

http://icj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/...hmir-fact-finding-mission-report-1995-eng.pdf




Therefore, letter of accession is lost, if not lost, null (declared by ICJ, UN Resolutions and PM Jawaharlal Nehru), if not null, void by the very people its supposed to serve. Even if its not void, the provision of the letter of accession lets the people of J&K decide their fate (according to PM Jawaharlal Nehru)




In his broadcast to the nation over All India Radio on 2nd November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said,:

Did Pakistan sign any accession paper with Kashmir before sending their militia in Kashmir, also do you have any legal document to put claim on Pakistani occupied Kashmir. :o: The accession paper of Kashmir is uploaded on the Wikipedia, you can watch it yourself. ;)
 
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The accession paper of Kashmir is uploaded on the Wikipedia, you can watch it yourself. ;)

Wikipedia is no reliable source my friend ..... The so called "instrument of accession" is a bogus document .. And Even wiki says : " It is generally accepted by scholars that the official Indian account of the signing of the accession document by Kashmir's maharaja - that it was signed in Jammu on 26 October 1947 - is inaccurate " ;)
 
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Wikipedia is no reliable source my friend ..... The so called "instrument of accession" is a bogus document .. And Even wiki says : " It is generally accepted by scholars that the official Indian account of the signing of the accession document by Kashmir's maharaja - that it was signed in Jammu on 26 October 1947 - is inaccurate " ;)

And We may discuss Pakistani position , once Indian position has been discussed ..

It contains the scan copy of the original accession document with the signature of Maharaja Hari Singh, watch that only. Rest of the comment you claiming are just personal views of some scholars who never get to see accession document.
 
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It contains the scan copy of the original accession document with the signature of Maharaja Hari Singh, watch that only. Rest of the comment you claiming are just personal views of some scholars who never get to see accession document.

Personal views of scholars ??? :crazy:

1) International law clearly states that every treaty entered into by a member of the United Nations must be registered with the Secretariat of the United Nations. "The Instrument of Accession" was neither presented to the United Nations nor to Pakistan. Hence India cannot invoke the treaty before any organ of the United Nations.
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The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), based in Geneva, passed a resolution in 1993 proclaiming Kashmir's accession to India as bogus and null and void.


Kashmir: not an integral part of India - thenews.com.pk

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Kashmir: The origins of the dispute

http://icj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/...hmir-fact-finding-mission-report-1995-eng.pdf
 
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Personal views of scholars ??? :crazy:

1) International law clearly states that every treaty entered into by a member of the United Nations must be registered with the Secretariat of the United Nations. "The Instrument of Accession" was neither presented to the United Nations nor to Pakistan. Hence India cannot invoke the treaty before any organ of the United Nations.

Under which charter this law comes, since you also have some imaginary claim Kashmir can't have representation in Indian Parliament. Before putting down confusing comments, you tell me on what basis or treaty Pakistan is controlling the Pakistan occupied Kashmir, do you have any legal document about Kashmir before raising objection about Kashmir's legal accession with India. :omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:
 
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Hyderabad was an extremely maldar princely state who's Nizam was the richest man on earth, so it was difficult for to them give up the desire to get the hold of the treasure of Hindu majority Hyderabad completely inside India after their two nation theory.



Did Pakistan sign any accession paper with Kashmir before sending their militia in Kashmir, also do you have any legal document to put claim on Pakistani occupied Kashmir. :o: The accession paper of Kashmir is uploaded on the Wikipedia, you can watch it yourself. ;)
You are right, i have read some where that nizam donated crores of rupees to newly created pakistan. Liaqat ali khan has typical face of a greedy man, even jinnah was wary of him and other oppurtunistic "khotay sikay" in his party.
 
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You are right, i have read some where that nizam donated crores of rupees to newly created pakistan. Liaqat ali khan has typical face of a greedy man, even jinnah was wary of him and other oppurtunistic "khotay sikay" in his party.
I am surprised nizam donated so much money... he was known as a very stingy man who wont even serve proper wine to his guests.
but nizams were good rulers, generally speaking.
 
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Under which charter this law comes,

Refer to
Fundamental Perspectives on International Law
by William R. Slomanson (10:337)

And rest of your post is the "usual ranting" .....
 
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Refer to
Fundamental Perspectives on International Law
by William R. Slomanson (10:337)

And rest of your post is the "usual ranting" .....

That's called Pot calling the Kettle black, you don't have any legal document to claim Pakistan Occupied Kashmir but you are raising objection against Kashmir's legal accession with India. :omghaha::omghaha:
 
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