Second JF-17B Prototype with more composite material undergoing flight tests

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well if Pakistan can benefit by Chinese Education model I am sure we can certainly improve in next 10-15 years the Education model in Pakistan needs a upgrade

Standard for Education needs to improve , and Improve quality in University /College

From Human Resource perspective we are stuck in 1960 levels, where mentality is hiring company will train me fully. However world wide now trend is many Students are well trained even in University/College

I would not imagine a open access to China for Pakistani Students but I would imagine , Chinese University Campuses/Collaboration with Local Pakistani Universities in Pakistan, with 6 month - 1 Year exchange program with China. For lower levels a exchange for Curriculum would be beneficial so Pakistan can examine if the Training we do in our high school (Introductory Engineering , Math, Physics, Chemistry , Biology, Geology ….etc.) can be improved

In China it is uncommon for Students to not score 90% - 99% averages and Research and Development is also quite advance , and for Pakistan we need to at least Improve the Human Resource quality reach 80%-83% Level

• Better Educated teachers in China , Produce Better trained students , better research and money for Research & Development

• In Pakistan , we have inconsistent Educational Institutes , Quality of Teachers is different for different Universities and School and there is minimum money for Research and Development

However there is some great chance for Pakistani Students to Learn some skills working on some CPEC projects as Interns / New Graduates or Assistant

However it is really up to federal Government to get 40,000 , 50,000 Graduates with High standing involved in New Projects even as assistants or interns

 

[ziaulislam]

J-10 might be inferior but not to the extent that PAF made it looked like and by repeating the same old mantra we have existing infrastructure for F-16s bla bla. J-10 even then was equivalent to an F-16 block-40. Today J-10B is as good if not better as any F-16 block-52. My point is If we had acquired an inferior plane than, it would be getting updates today and would have been the same standard as F-16s with the added advantage that numbers could quickly be added up in case of war with India. Plus we would not have been worried about them getting sanctioned as we are today with the F-16s.
Now let me ask you how profitable for the deal that PAF made when it chose to go down the F-16 route and not J-10? Can we acquire more F-16s? certainly there is a need for more. A handful of F-16s isnt going to cut it when pitted against more than 200 MKI, Rafales and Mirage 2000.

You didn't read...
J10a earliest version were inferior so pat went for f16s and signed first j10b version

Zardari scrapped everything even held the thunder program

 

[HRK]

Zardari scrapped everything even held the thunder program

not only thunder .... but refuse to pay even for F-16s and his government advised PAF to sale some the land (currently forgetting land in which city) for the construction of Shahbaz Airbase

and here people are commenting like $ were raining during those days ... PAF this and PAF that

 

[IceCold]

You didn't read...
J10a earliest version were inferior so pat went for f16s and signed first j10b version

Zardari scrapped everything even held the thunder program

I did read. Question is how inferior were they? J10a was equivalent to block 40 f16s. It was not like j10 was equal to Block 15 which the PAF were flying. Secondly you completely ignored the fact that unlike F16s, J10s were not prone to any sanctions. Third you are also discarding the fact that J10 is PLAAF backbone, it was only a matter of time before not only the Chinese would had catchup to F16s but also surpassed it.
Tell me how is todays J10b any inferior to F16 block 52?
Had we acquired J10 than, by now PAF pilots would had been pretty familiarise with the jet, developed its infrastructure and new upgrades would had been coming in. Which is not the case with F16s since neither US is willing to give us sensitive tech such as the new AESA radar, nor is it wiling to give us more F16s. So where do we stand now?
Zardari screwed us yes but paf screwed itself as well. Had J10 acquired than even if zardari stopped, paf could upgrade in the next government.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If our 40 J10B arrived in 2014 , December, by now we would have been talking about a Top up order of 30 more planes

May be Mirage would be close to retirement

 

[IceCold]

not only thunder .... but refuse to pay even for F-16s and his government advised PAF to sale some the land (currently forgetting land in which city) for the construction of Shahbaz Airbase

and here people are commenting like $ were raining during those days ... PAF this and PAF that

If that is the case and we are so broke than declare Kashmir as part of India and vacate GB as well and declare peace with India and end this charade.
India will not attack us considering how much dollar we have or not have and nuclear umbrella can save us only to an extent.

 

[ziaulislam]

If that is the case and we are so broke than declare Kashmir as part of India and vacate GB as well and declare peace with India and end this charade.
India will not attack us considering how much dollar we have or not have and nuclear umbrella can save us only to an extent.

Zardari was ready for that

I did read. Question is how inferior were they? J10a was equivalent to block 40 f16s. It was not like j10 was equal to Block 15 which the PAF were flying. Secondly you completely ignored the fact that unlike F16s, J10s were not prone to any sanctions. Third you are also discarding the fact that J10 is PLAAF backbone, it was only a matter of time before not only the Chinese would had catchup to F16s but also surpassed it.
Tell me how is todays J10b any inferior to F16 block 52?
Had we acquired J10 than, by now PAF pilots would had been pretty familiarise with the jet, developed its infrastructure and new upgrades would had been coming in. Which is not the case with F16s since neither US is willing to give us sensitive tech such as the new AESA radar, nor is it wiling to give us more F16s. So where do we stand now?
Zardari screwed us yes but paf screwed itself as well. Had J10 acquired than even if zardari stopped, paf could upgrade in the next government.

I am no expert but most believe it j10b still inferior to b52 and everyone agrees that j10a in 2002 was way inferior than even block 40 there was no way to predict that china will improve so much. The reason even thunder had western avionics before. There was concern for Russian blocking the engine deal too. That was risk even in thunder program. You have to think about aim120 vs sd10 too

B52 is not under sanctions and risk is always there for so many other equipment as well

Acquring j10s would have cost more than f16 program (getting 63 b52 aircraft at merely 1.5 billion dollars)

Point is bringing f16 up again and again is irrelevant as the cost was neglible at just 1.5 billion or 2 b with weapons

With j10 people of Pakistan didn't allow pad to acquire it

I am glad at least thunder program went on (mostly on loans) which is 80% j10..has same weapons and avionics

With j10 you will need significant numbers to keep a high operational capacity..this would have put thunder on the back too

Paf first needs to get minimum thunders before it can buy anything else

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi anybody can answer when did musharaff sign the j10 deal with China I mean year
And beside this isn’t it not worth for musharaff to get these f16 right after accepting the terms
With USA when they start attacking Afghanistan
The right time to get as much as he can and frankly he can whatever to some extent when he was rolling with Bush junior with the same clad
So my understanding is all of our leaders are trying to firm themselves in front of USA instead of
Getting really something out of them we can’t even ask USA to forgo our billions of dollars of loan like Hussni Mubarak did for the benefit of his country rest is history
Zardari must have cut down the defence expenditures coz before he been elected VP of USA
Visited Pakistan
Thank you

 

[HRK]

If that is the case and we are so broke than declare Kashmir as part of India and vacate GB as well and declare peace with India and end this charade.
India will not attack us considering how much dollar we have or not have and nuclear umbrella can save us only to an extent.

plz talk sensible .... no need to be extra sensitive

 

[IceCold]

plz talk sensible .... no need to be extra sensitive

Havent we lost one part of Pakistan already? Is that not sensible enough for you?

 

[帅的一匹]

歼10 deal is an unsolved mystery. sure had USA infuence in it.

yankees used F16 offer as a bait to seduce Pakistan goverment to.cancel the.J10 deal. and halted delivery as they take Pakistan for granted after that.

somehow it hit morale very much.

honestly speaking, both Musharaff and Sharif are friends of China. but Musharaff is more decisive.

 

[Shabi1]

Its no secret General Musharaf pushed for ZDK-03 AWACs when PAF preferred more Erieye's. There is a article on it but needs searching, PAF thought the ZDK-03 would be a risky purchase but turned out ok as Chinese technology is enhancing at a very fast rate.

However with respect to J-10, during Musharaf days the J-10A was still not mature enough and F-16 Blk-52 was a better aircraft. The F-16 with it's sniper targeting pods has proved valuable in the Pakistan's war against militants and munitions/spares were provided by US coalition support funds so it was a good decision. With non US platforms, US would never have had provided support funds. Only with the recent J-10B and J-10C has it become a better alternative to the F-16s, however now with JF-17 Blk-3 development it is being overlooked. J-10C or perhaps a D version is still not out of the game and could be an option for PAF if threat from InAF is deemed too unmanageable.

Posting J-10D fan art.

 

[HRK]

歼10 deal is an unsolved mystery. sure had USA infuence in it.

yankees used F16 offer as a bait to seduce Pakistan goverment to.cancel the.J10 deal. and halted delivery as they take Pakistan for granted after that.

Dear anyone who have little understanding of the matter related to Pakistan from late 2006-2013 can easily say our own people were more responsible for difficult situation which Pakistan faced (and still facing) than any other foreign force so blaming USA for the cancellation of J-10 deal is outright stupidity ....

BTW Pakistan signed F-16 deal in 2005 while the 'reported deals' for J-10 were signed in years 2006 (link, link-2) , 2009 (link) even in 2011 and 2015, so the Americans should not be blamed for J-10 fiasco

 

[MastanKhan]

歼10 deal is an unsolved mystery. sure had USA infuence in it.

yankees used F16 offer as a bait to seduce Pakistan goverment to.cancel the.J10 deal. and halted delivery as they take Pakistan for granted after that.

somehow it hit morale very much.

honestly speaking, both Musharaff and Sharif are friends of China. but Musharaff is more decisive.

Hi,

Actually the Pakistani air force generals and their juniors who had future jobs lined up with the Lockmart & associates in cohoots with the US made that happen

Hi anybody can answer when did musharaff sign the j10 deal with China I mean year
And beside this isn’t it not worth for musharaff to get these f16 right after accepting the terms
With USA when they start attacking Afghanistan
The right time to get as much as he can and frankly he can whatever to some extent when he was rolling with Bush junior with the same clad
So my understanding is all of our leaders are trying to firm themselves in front of USA instead of
Getting really something out of them we can’t even ask USA to forgo our billions of dollars of loan like Hussni Mubarak did for the benefit of his country rest is history
Zardari must have cut down the defence expenditures coz before he been elected VP of USA
Visited Pakistan
Thank you

Hi,

It was not Musharraf who held off---it was the Paf---who had assessed after 9/11 that there was no need for the F16's---it would be a waste of money---because war with India is not possible---.

So---the first chance they got---the Paf donated the funds for the F16 to earhquake relief---.

If there were no funds---no aircraft issue---. The traitors are in the air force---.

 

[Globalwarrior]

Traitors who keep buying US weapons should be executed ...
An inferior non US product is better than an expensive US weapon that is hamstrung already