Second JF-17B Prototype with more composite material undergoing flight tests

[Trango Towers]

Basically simple straight forward hinges on jf-17b vs servo type used by jas-39 and rafeal

View attachment 480456

Agree....the arm isn't so far away and that was my point

Check the hinge on post 112

 

[Hamza913]

turkey should buy a couple of dozen of these but single seater

Kinda pointless to be honest unless you can get a deal to make them yourselves.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Agree....the arm isn't so far away and that was my point

Check the hinge on post 112

As @KapitaanAli said in his post that JF-17B has a deep submerged cockpit than other PAF trainers that why they look like detached/ far below the cockpit hinges @snow lake

 

[CriticalThought]

@messiach @razgriz19 what is the function of the green edge on the intake? Is this for reducing the radar signature?

 

[Av8er]

For all those making guesses whether the green indicated areas are fuel or composite. This definitely is "fuel" which I have confirmed and these green sections can also be seen on JF-17A prototypes except for the vertical tail and front fuselage because JF-17B has recovered the fuel compromised by the addition of second seat by addition of fuel to vertical tail and frontal inlet/strake. Yes there is use of composite in JF-17B, the whole vertical tail and dorsal spine consists of composite material but it is not as that highlighted in green.

Who did you confirm this with?

 

[Tipu7]

@messiach @razgriz19 what is the function of the green edge on the intake? Is this for reducing the radar signature?

View attachment 480483

Yes. Frontal RCS. Intake lining.

Hi,

I will settle for this answer---but I was looking for the difference in the A & B---.

Radar difference (B don't house KLJ07V2). FBW difference (quadruplex digital FBW vs dual axis hybrid). Internal structure, particularly fuel tank configuration is different. More amount and more types of composite material used in air frame (three types).
Jf17b is still in prototype stage.

 

[Armchair]

SS flight is fundamentally different from SubS flight. In SS flight turbulence becomes less of a hurdle than control of shockwave from leading edges & consequent acute BLayer seperation & post-shockwave stall. An intelligent solution was LERX without rectangular intakes. FC1 is therefore fundamentally different from FA-18 or F-22.

thanks for that - do you mean to say that the JF-17 has better (lower) SS drag by design?

The JFT always had to work extra hard on reducing drag to keep up with the big boys, given its engine. Its interesting how those targets were met, so innovatively.

The same issues arise with the Azm project - how to build a stealth plane with older generation power plants. The obvious solution is to go with a tailless delta design - which eliminates some of the shockwave issues for SS.

But then, how much is PAF willing to sacrifice STR - that becomes the question. Could Levcons, a modified delta, and thrust vectoring be a solution? Could small canards, well-forward of the intakes (ala Eurofither) be a solution? Could such a small forward canard be made dielectric?

More questions than solutions in my mind.

Occam's Razor would suggest an expansion of the basic JF-17 aerodynamics ala the Hornet / Super hornet methodology. That would actually be the lowest risk alternative. It would also mean a very cheap, fast development pathway, and ability to largely re-use the FCS. And to utilize all the lessons learned from the JFT development.

A tailless delta, while the harder, riskier, more expensive pathway, would have greater potential and capability vis-a-vis high-high BVR air combat. But maybe, just maybe, air wars may return to WVR engagements, meaning this pathway becomes less relevant.

 

[MastanKhan]

Definite. Delays boundry layer seperation through mitigating adverse pressure gradient. FC1 like other modern jets is affected by post shock-wave stall which should be more pronounced in type B @Sinnerman108 .

Yes. Frontal RCS. Intake lining.


Radar difference (B don't house KLJ07V2). FBW difference (quadruplex digital FBW vs dual axis hybrid). Internal structure, particularly fuel tank configuration is different. More amount and more types of composite material used in air frame (three types).
Jf17b is still in prototype stage.

Hi,

I was looking for the answer for the 'highlighted'---.

Thanks

 

[messiach]

Forebody VG help 'control' shockwave, acute boundry-layer seperation & post-shock stall at SS speeds, which is a concern for FC1-B. Moreover its a major design principle for supercruise. Hope this clarifies.

Hi,

I will settle for this answer---but I was looking for the difference in the A & B---.

.

 

[MastanKhan]

Forebody VG help 'control' shockwave, acute boundry-layer seperation & post-shock stall at SS speeds, which is a concern for FC1-B. Moreover its a major design principle for supercruise. Hope this clarifies.

Hi,

So---it is early 90's and I am selling Lincolns at Beverly hills---. This beautiful older white lady comes looking for a Lincoln Town Car---the size of diamond on her ring finger was almost the size of my thumbnail---.

I started answering her questions and added some technical inforemation as well---.

She retorts---'youngman---speak to me in english---. I got mad---and told her I am speaking in english---and I have a very good accent as well---. She got mad and left---.

I told my boss who was a white guy----he crakced up---say to me---she was not talking about your language skills---talk in english meant---speak in simpler terms that a lay person can understand---and I laughed and laughed and laughed---and still do at my ignorance---.

So---please explain this in a simpler language---sometimes this technical jargon flies over the top of my head---

 

[denel]

Hi,

So---it is early 90's and I am selling Lincolns at Beverly hills---. This beautiful older white lady comes looking for a Lincoln Town Car---the size of diamond on her ring finger was almost the size of my thumbnail---.

I started answering her questions and added some technical inforemation as well---.

She retorts---'youngman---speak to me in english---. I got mad---and told her I am speaking in english---and I have a very good accent as well---. She got mad and left---.

I told my boss who was a white guy----he crakced up---say to me---she was not talking about your language skills---talk in english meant---speak in simpler terms that a lay person can understand---and I laughed and laughed and laughed---and still do at my ignorance---.

So---mama---please explain this in a simpler language---sometimes this technical jargon flies over the top of my head---

Indeed know your audience
You have not met Chinese academics - they go off into the deep end with their explanations to the point you have to cut them off.

 

[Trango Towers]

As @KapitaanAli said in his post that JF-17B has a deep submerged cockpit than other PAF trainers that why they look like detached/ far below the cockpit hinges @snow lake

Post 161....read it
As I said conversation ends

 

[Gallium Nitride]

Who did you confirm this with?

I confirmed it from my behalf

 

[CriticalThought]

I confirmed it from my behalf

Look, I am your friend when I say this. Try to apply logic to what you have heard. The green color is all over the aircraft, even at the edge of the intakes. It cannot possibly be true that behind each and every green panel, there is fuel storage. Probably there are a few panels that do indicate fuel, and we can probably guess them. But most certainly the vertical tail on Thunder B does not have the required volume.

As for the vertical tail on F-35, there is one single picture on the internet that indicates fuel storage on the vertical tail. I cannot find any written confirmation from authentic sources. You cannot form an informed opinion based on one picture on the internet.

@gambit can you please shed light on the claim that the vertical tail on some version of F-35 stores fuel in it?

 

[Incog_nito]

But is there really so much different?? I only spot that small squared part on the very front end of the green panel and the tail's rudder is painted.

View attachment 479292

It's more or less like a light strike platform. Although it would work as AJT & JF-17 Conversion aircraft.