Nishan_101
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ISAF should build some facility to maintain these and other vehicles in Afghanistan. Also these MRAPs should remain in Afghanistan.
Searching New Home for 13,000 MRAPs
- Thread starter jawadqamar
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HRK
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if you don't know this, its mean you have no understanding of this region and the political dynamic of this region during 50s till 80s
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Nishan_101
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Is 13000 MRPAs coming to Pakistan???
ejaz007
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Pak won't become US junkyard, mainly interested in MRAP vehicles
ISLAMABAD: The U.S. military may have another option for disposing of $7 billion worth of armored vehicles and other equipment it’s struggling to get rid of now that its war in Afghanistan is ending.
Some of it could be driven across the border and handed over to Pakistan, part of an effort by the Pentagon to unload excess military supplies to U.S. allies at no cost.
The discussions between American and Pakistani officials have been going on for months and center on leftover military hardware that the United States does not want to pay to ship or fly home.
Although no final decisions have been made, Pakistan is particularly interested in the U.S. Army’s mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles, which Pentagon officials say will have limited strategic value as U.S. forces withdraw from Afghanistan this year.
But with Pakistan’s military expected to be battling Taliban insurgents for years, the MRAPs could help Pakistani forces slow their high casualty rate of more than 20,000 dead or injured troops since 2001.
“We will not take it for the sake of just taking it, and we will not take it because it’s free,” said one senior Pakistani military official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the negotiations. “We will take it because we need it.”
About 150,000 Pakistani soldiers are along the country’s border with Afghanistan, and U.S. officials are counting on them to help keep the pressure on militant groups after 2014.
But Pakistan’s troops remain vulnerable to roadside bombs and explosive devices, and their armored vehicles can withstand far less force than a U.S.-made MRAP, officials said.
The United States had been a major weapons supplier to Pakistan for decades, but those sales slowed dramatically after the U.S. military raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan in 2011.
Over the past year, the tension has eased, and leaders in both countries have stressed that they need to work together to try to ensure regional stability after the U.S.-led coalition withdraws from Afghanistan.
Last fall, Secretary of State John F. Kerry signed a waiver authorizing U.S. weapons sales to Pakistan through at least this year.
The backbone of the U.S. military’s vehicle fleet in Afghanistan, MRAPs were designed to protect American troops from explosive devices. But each MRAP weighs as much as 40 tons, and Pentagon leaders have said it would potentially cost more than $100,000 per vehicle to ship them back to United States. They also have qualms about leaving them in Afghanistan, noting that the stock is far larger than what the Afghan army would be able to maintain.
The Washington Post reported in June that the U.S. military was shredding hundreds of MRAPs for scrap metal, despite their initial cost of $400,000 to $700,000 each.
But Mark E. Wright, a Pentagon spokesman, said the military still has about 13,000 MRAPs scattered worldwide that remain in good working condition, including about 1,600 in Afghanistan.
The U.S. government is offering them to allies for free on an “as-is, where-is” basis, Wright said. But the recipients, who would be vetted by the State Department, would be responsible for shipping them out of Afghanistan.
Twenty countries have expressed an interest, he added.
The Defense Department “is reviewing every request and is expediting the review process to support U.S. retrograde timelines,” said Wright, noting that decisions must be made by the end of this year.
But Marine Gen. Joseph F. Dunford, commander of coalition forces in Afghanistan, told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Wednesday that many countries have ultimately decided that it’s neither cost-effective nor practical for them to pay to collect the MRAPs from Afghanistan.
“It’s very expensive for countries to take those vehicles from Afghanistan,” he said.
Pakistan, however, shares a 1,500-mile border with Afghanistan. Coalition forces also use Pakistani highways and ports to ship material into and out of landlocked Afghanistan.
In January, the New York Times reported that Uzbekistan, which borders Afghanistan, also has been inquiring about receiving surplus U.S. military hardware.
At the time, the newspaper noted that the U.S.-led coalition was increasingly relying on Uzbekistan to transport equipment and supplies out of Afghanistan because supply routes through Pakistan were partly blocked.
Since then, however, a major Pakistani political party has lifted its blockade of NATO supply routes through the northern part of the country. Since January, there also have been several high-level meetings between U.S. and Pakistani officials over ways to bolster cooperation.
A Pakistani security official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter, said the military is exploring the acquisition of night-vision and communications equipment.
The official said Pakistan stepped up its efforts to find more advanced counterterrorism equipment and armor in the fall after a Pakistani army general was killed by a roadside bomb near the Afghan border. About 5,000 Pakistani troops have been killed in clashes with the Taliban or in terrorist attacks since 2001, including 114 over the past six months.
Siemon T. Wezeman, a senior researcher and South Asia expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which tracks global weapons sales and transfers, said Pakistan also has reached out to Turkey in search of more heavily armored vehicles.
But Wezeman said a deal between the United States and Pakistan to transfer old MRAPs could benefit both countries.
Although Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has been boosting the defense budget, Wezeman notes that Pakistan remains a cash-strapped nation. And U.S. military commanders, he said, fear leaving surplus equipment in Afghanistan because of uncertainty about the Afghan army’s ability to fend off Taliban insurgents.
“Handing them all over to the Afghan army isn’t really an option,” Wezeman said. “There is a feeling in the U.S. that the Afghan army is not totally reliable, so it may be safer to just park them in Pakistan.”
Still, U.S. officials are mindful that any significant transfer of military hardware to Pakistan could complicate relations with Afghanistan and India, another U.S. ally in the region.
Pakistan and India have fought three major wars since 1947, but Wezeman doubts that India would seriously object “to a few hundred MRAPs ending up in Pakistan.” He notes that the bulky vehicles were built to fight an insurgency and would have little value in a major cross-border war involving tanks and warplanes.
It’s less clear, however, how Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Afghan military leaders would react. Karzai, who is leaving office this year, is deeply skeptical of Pakistan and believes that the U.S.-led coalition has not done enough to prepare the Afghan army for threats from Pakistan and other countries that border Afghanistan.
Even if the United States agrees to give Pakistan military hardware from Afghanistan, Pakistani officials stress that there are limits to what they’re willing to accept.
“Pakistan won’t become America’s junkyard,” one official said.
Pak wont become US junkyard, mainly interested in MRAP vehicles - thenews.com.pk
ISLAMABAD: The U.S. military may have another option for disposing of $7 billion worth of armored vehicles and other equipment it’s struggling to get rid of now that its war in Afghanistan is ending.
Some of it could be driven across the border and handed over to Pakistan, part of an effort by the Pentagon to unload excess military supplies to U.S. allies at no cost.
The discussions between American and Pakistani officials have been going on for months and center on leftover military hardware that the United States does not want to pay to ship or fly home.
Although no final decisions have been made, Pakistan is particularly interested in the U.S. Army’s mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles, which Pentagon officials say will have limited strategic value as U.S. forces withdraw from Afghanistan this year.
But with Pakistan’s military expected to be battling Taliban insurgents for years, the MRAPs could help Pakistani forces slow their high casualty rate of more than 20,000 dead or injured troops since 2001.
“We will not take it for the sake of just taking it, and we will not take it because it’s free,” said one senior Pakistani military official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the negotiations. “We will take it because we need it.”
About 150,000 Pakistani soldiers are along the country’s border with Afghanistan, and U.S. officials are counting on them to help keep the pressure on militant groups after 2014.
But Pakistan’s troops remain vulnerable to roadside bombs and explosive devices, and their armored vehicles can withstand far less force than a U.S.-made MRAP, officials said.
The United States had been a major weapons supplier to Pakistan for decades, but those sales slowed dramatically after the U.S. military raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan in 2011.
Over the past year, the tension has eased, and leaders in both countries have stressed that they need to work together to try to ensure regional stability after the U.S.-led coalition withdraws from Afghanistan.
Last fall, Secretary of State John F. Kerry signed a waiver authorizing U.S. weapons sales to Pakistan through at least this year.
The backbone of the U.S. military’s vehicle fleet in Afghanistan, MRAPs were designed to protect American troops from explosive devices. But each MRAP weighs as much as 40 tons, and Pentagon leaders have said it would potentially cost more than $100,000 per vehicle to ship them back to United States. They also have qualms about leaving them in Afghanistan, noting that the stock is far larger than what the Afghan army would be able to maintain.
The Washington Post reported in June that the U.S. military was shredding hundreds of MRAPs for scrap metal, despite their initial cost of $400,000 to $700,000 each.
But Mark E. Wright, a Pentagon spokesman, said the military still has about 13,000 MRAPs scattered worldwide that remain in good working condition, including about 1,600 in Afghanistan.
The U.S. government is offering them to allies for free on an “as-is, where-is” basis, Wright said. But the recipients, who would be vetted by the State Department, would be responsible for shipping them out of Afghanistan.
Twenty countries have expressed an interest, he added.
The Defense Department “is reviewing every request and is expediting the review process to support U.S. retrograde timelines,” said Wright, noting that decisions must be made by the end of this year.
But Marine Gen. Joseph F. Dunford, commander of coalition forces in Afghanistan, told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Wednesday that many countries have ultimately decided that it’s neither cost-effective nor practical for them to pay to collect the MRAPs from Afghanistan.
“It’s very expensive for countries to take those vehicles from Afghanistan,” he said.
Pakistan, however, shares a 1,500-mile border with Afghanistan. Coalition forces also use Pakistani highways and ports to ship material into and out of landlocked Afghanistan.
In January, the New York Times reported that Uzbekistan, which borders Afghanistan, also has been inquiring about receiving surplus U.S. military hardware.
At the time, the newspaper noted that the U.S.-led coalition was increasingly relying on Uzbekistan to transport equipment and supplies out of Afghanistan because supply routes through Pakistan were partly blocked.
Since then, however, a major Pakistani political party has lifted its blockade of NATO supply routes through the northern part of the country. Since January, there also have been several high-level meetings between U.S. and Pakistani officials over ways to bolster cooperation.
A Pakistani security official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter, said the military is exploring the acquisition of night-vision and communications equipment.
The official said Pakistan stepped up its efforts to find more advanced counterterrorism equipment and armor in the fall after a Pakistani army general was killed by a roadside bomb near the Afghan border. About 5,000 Pakistani troops have been killed in clashes with the Taliban or in terrorist attacks since 2001, including 114 over the past six months.
Siemon T. Wezeman, a senior researcher and South Asia expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which tracks global weapons sales and transfers, said Pakistan also has reached out to Turkey in search of more heavily armored vehicles.
But Wezeman said a deal between the United States and Pakistan to transfer old MRAPs could benefit both countries.
Although Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has been boosting the defense budget, Wezeman notes that Pakistan remains a cash-strapped nation. And U.S. military commanders, he said, fear leaving surplus equipment in Afghanistan because of uncertainty about the Afghan army’s ability to fend off Taliban insurgents.
“Handing them all over to the Afghan army isn’t really an option,” Wezeman said. “There is a feeling in the U.S. that the Afghan army is not totally reliable, so it may be safer to just park them in Pakistan.”
Still, U.S. officials are mindful that any significant transfer of military hardware to Pakistan could complicate relations with Afghanistan and India, another U.S. ally in the region.
Pakistan and India have fought three major wars since 1947, but Wezeman doubts that India would seriously object “to a few hundred MRAPs ending up in Pakistan.” He notes that the bulky vehicles were built to fight an insurgency and would have little value in a major cross-border war involving tanks and warplanes.
It’s less clear, however, how Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Afghan military leaders would react. Karzai, who is leaving office this year, is deeply skeptical of Pakistan and believes that the U.S.-led coalition has not done enough to prepare the Afghan army for threats from Pakistan and other countries that border Afghanistan.
Even if the United States agrees to give Pakistan military hardware from Afghanistan, Pakistani officials stress that there are limits to what they’re willing to accept.
“Pakistan won’t become America’s junkyard,” one official said.
Pak wont become US junkyard, mainly interested in MRAP vehicles - thenews.com.pk
Orakzai
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we have paid a very high price for WHAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR US. thank you no more needed. US is the most unreliable friend any country could ever have.
Nadi
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This is an absolute Godsend! Pakistan Army needs those MRAPs immediately; those Toyota and Mazda pickup trucks are costing unimaginable losses in terms of lives of our jawans in their fight against TTP and other splinter militant outfits. Pakistan should get all the 1,600 vehicles that are in Afghanistan and try to get whatever number of vehicles they can get out of the total 13,000 MRAPs that the United States has around the globe.
I would go so far as to suggest a ToT agreement, the sooner Pakistan can churn these out of its military-industrial complexes, the better.
I would go so far as to suggest a ToT agreement, the sooner Pakistan can churn these out of its military-industrial complexes, the better.
XYON
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Frankly, Pakistan Army requires smaller sized MRAP's or wheeled APC's that can negotiate the narrow terrain of SWA and NWA. Secondly, if we do accept the MaxxPro MRAP's in sheer desperation, we will end up paying through our nose on spares and services just to maintain these high maintenance beasts to be road worthy. Third, these MRAP's are also not fully secured as US soldiers have indeed died in them due to the shock wave caused by large IED blasts under the vehicle.
Nadi
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Are you serious? The debate over MRAP's effectiveness or cost worthiness is well suited for the American tax-payer since the US Army already has Humvees for which an argument can be made that a reconfigured and heavily armoured Humvee may well be more worthwhile than a MRAP.
But where Pakistan Army is concerned, particularly the extremely ill-equipped Frontier Corps (deployed in Baluchistan and KP), this is a no-brainer. I'll take FREE MRAPs over anything that the Pakistan Army currently uses, especially those Toyota and Mazda pickup trucks you often see 8-9 Pakistan soldiers cramped in with little or no protection whatsoever.
'High maintenance'? So you're saying that F-16s with PAF are not high maintenance? Or the upkeep of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal? When a new platform is inducted in to the armed forces, the logistical and support infrastructure is always daunting at first, but if you factor in the long-term value, a platform such as MRAP is very cost effective given the fact that Pakistan may get 2,000 MRAPs (each cost Americans $700,000 to build) for FREE; almost all of which are in excellent condition.
This is why I suggested ToT, Pakistan could keep them running for the next 5-7years until it can come up with something indigenous that is worth entrusting the lives of your soldiers with. I clearly recall the incident in Afghanistan where a 250lb IED exploded under the front wheel of the MRAP and the vehicle bore the brunt of the lethal force of the massive explosion. Even though the occupants (5 US soldiers, 1 Afghan interpreter and 1 American journalist) were injured to varying degree; ALL of them survived.
A 250lb IED is no joke; if it was a Pakistan Army's Toyota or Mazda pickup carrying our troops - something you see a lot of in videos released by ISPR of its Rah-e-Raast and other operations - it would have been vaporized by a bomb that big.
As for other APCs in the Pakistan Army service, such as Talha, Saad, etc; all of them are slightly upgraded M113 chasis vehicles with no proven battle record, no data on their numbers in deployment, no info on their performance / lives saved, etc. I'd bet my money on a battle hardened and proven MRAP over anything Pakistan Army currently has.
KingMamba
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It will be free of cost but Pakistan will have to find means to maintain them.
Pak wont become US junkyard, mainly interested in MRAP vehicles - thenews.com.pk
“We will not take it for the sake of just taking it, and we will not take it because it’s free,” said one senior Pakistani military official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the negotiations. “We will take it because we need it.”
Nadi
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That's all nonsense. Even American junk from Afghanistan is more than welcome; this 'military official' clearly has no idea what he's talking about. All the junk will come to Pakistan one way or another to be absorbed by Pakistan's scrap metal industry. Maybe I should show this 'military official' a video of how thousands of containers of absolutely rubbish e-waste comes to Karachi port each year and then is hauled to small, ill-equipped factories where workers take apart those electronics with hammers and chisels, melting soldered PC motherboards, etc inhaling dangerous toxins.
Now THAT is junk. Not American military hardware Mr 'military official'.. Please take whatever the Americans give you for FREE. You do NOT have the dollars to buy anything anyways.
KingMamba
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I agree with you Pakistan should take what is being offered, beggars cannot be choosers.
Nadi
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Source of your intel please? Or do people here have a habit of making claims without any evidence?
Contrarian
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As a matter of fact 1000 of these vehicles would be ideal for anti-Maoist ops of CRPF as well.
Doubt that India would take them though.
Doubt that India would take them though.
XYON
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Listen Junior!! Since you are new to this forum so I'll overlook your adolescence excitement on these matters. Source of my intel is the ISI, MI, Army HQ, Navy HQ, Air HQ, PM House, President House, Ministry of Interior YADA YADA YADA!! Pick one and suck on that lollipop hard kiddo!
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