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Searching New Home for 13,000 MRAPs

Listen Junior!! Since you are new to this forum so I'll overlook your adolescence excitement on these matters. Source of my intel is the ISI, MI, Army HQ, Navy HQ, Air HQ, PM House, President House, Ministry of Interior YADA YADA YADA!! Pick one and suck on that lollipop hard kiddo!


So you assume that just because you say you got your information from ISI, etc that everyone should believe you? hahaha wow! Didn't know the 'khalifa' style of Pakistani streets had made it in to these forums here as well. Now I've seen it.

I get my info from CIA & NSA.. how about that? You obviously weren't taught to show respect to get it back in return. My sympathies for your insecurities.

If this is a fair forum, it should be about the weight and credibility of what we say here, not the 'seniority' or 'junioship' of a member. For all I know, you have gathered thousands of 'posts' by simply posting one-liners and loose-talk here. And seeing the way you responded to my comment, I can only imagine what your other posts on this forum look like.

Assuming, everyone is a 'kiddo' just because they disagree with you is quite unlike the qualities of a 'senior'. You want respect as a senior, act like one. Not some street thug.
 
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Pak won't become US junkyard, mainly interested in MRAP vehicles

ISLAMABAD: The U.S. military may have another option for disposing of $7 billion worth of armored vehicles and other equipment it’s struggling to get rid of now that its war in Afghanistan is ending.

Some of it could be driven across the border and handed over to Pakistan, part of an effort by the Pentagon to unload excess military supplies to U.S. allies at no cost.

The discussions between American and Pakistani officials have been going on for months and center on leftover military hardware that the United States does not want to pay to ship or fly home.

Although no final decisions have been made, Pakistan is particularly interested in the U.S. Army’s mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles, which Pentagon officials say will have limited strategic value as U.S. forces withdraw from Afghanistan this year.

But with Pakistan’s military expected to be battling Taliban insurgents for years, the MRAPs could help Pakistani forces slow their high casualty rate of more than 20,000 dead or injured troops since 2001.

“We will not take it for the sake of just taking it, and we will not take it because it’s free,” said one senior Pakistani military official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the negotiations. “We will take it because we need it.”

About 150,000 Pakistani soldiers are along the country’s border with Afghanistan, and U.S. officials are counting on them to help keep the pressure on militant groups after 2014.

But Pakistan’s troops remain vulnerable to roadside bombs and explosive devices, and their armored vehicles can withstand far less force than a U.S.-made MRAP, officials said.

The United States had been a major weapons supplier to Pakistan for decades, but those sales slowed dramatically after the U.S. military raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan in 2011.

Over the past year, the tension has eased, and leaders in both countries have stressed that they need to work together to try to ensure regional stability after the U.S.-led coalition withdraws from Afghanistan.

Last fall, Secretary of State John F. Kerry signed a waiver authorizing U.S. weapons sales to Pakistan through at least this year.

The backbone of the U.S. military’s vehicle fleet in Afghanistan, MRAPs were designed to protect American troops from explosive devices. But each MRAP weighs as much as 40 tons, and Pentagon leaders have said it would potentially cost more than $100,000 per vehicle to ship them back to United States. They also have qualms about leaving them in Afghanistan, noting that the stock is far larger than what the Afghan army would be able to maintain.

The Washington Post reported in June that the U.S. military was shredding hundreds of MRAPs for scrap metal, despite their initial cost of $400,000 to $700,000 each.

But Mark E. Wright, a Pentagon spokesman, said the military still has about 13,000 MRAPs scattered worldwide that remain in good working condition, including about 1,600 in Afghanistan.

The U.S. government is offering them to allies for free on an “as-is, where-is” basis, Wright said. But the recipients, who would be vetted by the State Department, would be responsible for shipping them out of Afghanistan.

Twenty countries have expressed an interest, he added.

The Defense Department “is reviewing every request and is expediting the review process to support U.S. retrograde timelines,” said Wright, noting that decisions must be made by the end of this year.

But Marine Gen. Joseph F. Dunford, commander of coalition forces in Afghanistan, told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Wednesday that many countries have ultimately decided that it’s neither cost-effective nor practical for them to pay to collect the MRAPs from Afghanistan.

“It’s very expensive for countries to take those vehicles from Afghanistan,” he said.

Pakistan, however, shares a 1,500-mile border with Afghanistan. Coalition forces also use Pakistani highways and ports to ship material into and out of landlocked Afghanistan.

In January, the New York Times reported that Uzbekistan, which borders Afghanistan, also has been inquiring about receiving surplus U.S. military hardware.

At the time, the newspaper noted that the U.S.-led coalition was increasingly relying on Uzbekistan to transport equipment and supplies out of Afghanistan because supply routes through Pakistan were partly blocked.

Since then, however, a major Pakistani political party has lifted its blockade of NATO supply routes through the northern part of the country. Since January, there also have been several high-level meetings between U.S. and Pakistani officials over ways to bolster cooperation.

A Pakistani security official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter, said the military is exploring the acquisition of night-vision and communications equipment.

The official said Pakistan stepped up its efforts to find more advanced counterterrorism equipment and armor in the fall after a Pakistani army general was killed by a roadside bomb near the Afghan border. About 5,000 Pakistani troops have been killed in clashes with the Taliban or in terrorist attacks since 2001, including 114 over the past six months.

Siemon T. Wezeman, a senior researcher and South Asia expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which tracks global weapons sales and transfers, said Pakistan also has reached out to Turkey in search of more heavily armored vehicles.

But Wezeman said a deal between the United States and Pakistan to transfer old MRAPs could benefit both countries.

Although Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has been boosting the defense budget, Wezeman notes that Pakistan remains a cash-strapped nation. And U.S. military commanders, he said, fear leaving surplus equipment in Afghanistan because of uncertainty about the Afghan army’s ability to fend off Taliban insurgents.

“Handing them all over to the Afghan army isn’t really an option,” Wezeman said. “There is a feeling in the U.S. that the Afghan army is not totally reliable, so it may be safer to just park them in Pakistan.”

Still, U.S. officials are mindful that any significant transfer of military hardware to Pakistan could complicate relations with Afghanistan and India, another U.S. ally in the region.

Pakistan and India have fought three major wars since 1947, but Wezeman doubts that India would seriously object “to a few hundred MRAPs ending up in Pakistan.” He notes that the bulky vehicles were built to fight an insurgency and would have little value in a major cross-border war involving tanks and warplanes.

It’s less clear, however, how Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Afghan military leaders would react. Karzai, who is leaving office this year, is deeply skeptical of Pakistan and believes that the U.S.-led coalition has not done enough to prepare the Afghan army for threats from Pakistan and other countries that border Afghanistan.

Even if the United States agrees to give Pakistan military hardware from Afghanistan, Pakistani officials stress that there are limits to what they’re willing to accept.

“Pakistan won’t become America’s junkyard,” one official said.

Pak wont become US junkyard, mainly interested in MRAP vehicles - thenews.com.pk

Can any senior member start-up a threat about the List of US and ISAF equipment present in Afghanistan????
 
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So you assume that just because you say you got your information from ISI, etc that everyone should believe you? hahaha wow! Didn't know the 'khalifa' style of Pakistani streets had made it in to these forums here as well. Now I've seen it.

I get my info from CIA & NSA.. how about that? You obviously weren't taught to show respect to get it back in return. My sympathies for your insecurities.

If this is a fair forum, it should be about the weight and credibility of what we say here, not the 'seniority' or 'junioship' of a member. For all I know, you have gathered thousands of 'posts' by simply posting one-liners and loose-talk here. And seeing the way you responded to my comment, I can only imagine what your other posts on this forum look like.

Assuming, everyone is a 'kiddo' just because they disagree with you is quite unlike the qualities of a 'senior'. You want respect as a senior, act like one. Not some street thug.

Never argued with an IDIOT all my life ...... not about to start anytime now! Cheers.
 
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Never argued with an IDIOT all my life ...... not about to start anytime now! Cheers.


My thoughts exactly. I'm just glad you didn't say you got your information from an angel in the form of a revelation. Bottom line is, your claims are hollow. No evidence, just a loud mouth.
 
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Nadi and Xyon.
Please cool down. One can argue one's point without hurling insults. Nadi on this board seniors are treated with respect and it is an offence to misbehave with a senior. You have made a valid point and Xyon has argued against it. Agree to disagree and move on. All the other verbage was unnecessary and did not contribute to the discussion.
Now please get back to the topic.
PA has tried and tested some MRAPS. Lazar2 is one of them.As Xyon pointed out you have to match the vehicle to the terrain it needs to be active on.There remains a concern that these beasts might become more of a hindrance due to their size, unweildiness and perhaps something smaller and more mobile might be a better option. The catch (and a big one) is that these can come virgually free and in enough numbers that cannibalization can keep us going for some time. People will also be assessing to see whether a half way house is a possibility(jugaar). We will have to wait and see.
Araz
 
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Nadi and Xyon.
Please cool down. One can argue one's point without hurling insults. Nadi on this board seniors are treated with respect and it is an offence to misbehave with a senior. You have made a valid point and Xyon has argued against it. Agree to disagree and move on. All the other verbage was unnecessary and did not contribute to the discussion.
Now please get back to the topic.
PA has tried and tested some MRAPS. Lazar2 is one of them.As Xyon pointed out you have to match the vehicle to the terrain it needs to be active on.There remains a concern that these beasts might become more of a hindrance due to their size, unweildiness and perhaps something smaller and more mobile might be a better option. The catch (and a big one) is that these can come virgually free and in enough numbers that cannibalization can keep us going for some time. People will also be assessing to see whether a half way house is a possibility(jugaar). We will have to wait and see.
Araz


I'm all for respect but its difficult to respect someone who says, 'I got my info from ISI, PM House, etc'; thats nonsense. Respect is received if respect is given. He went on to call me names for no reason. This isn't Pakistan; its a internet forum. You don't get respect just because it says 'senior' next to your avatar. For all I know, he could've made a ten thousand useless posts here.

Anyways, terrain should not be a problem since the terrain in Afghanistan is no different from our own North and South Waziristan regions and other K.P areas which is where they are badly needed instead of the useless Toyota and Mazda pickup trucks Pakistan Army currently uses to move its troops around. In military lingo, such vehicles merit the term 'rickshaws'. They have zero protection from IEDs and you can compare the KIA rate of Americans vs Pakistanis to substantiate that; not to mention the thousands of Pakistani troops who've lost one, two or all their limbs and are living in a vegetative state currently.

MRAPs are better than having nothing. They could be used as a stop-gap measure until Pakistan finally decides on which similar platform to actually buy and induct. Even if they made a decision today, the first Pakistani MRAPs wouldn't enter service for the next 3-4yrs; thats a LOT of Pakistani soldiers' lives lost and others maimed. Its a no-brainer.
 
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Weren't they being offered free of charge, on as-is-basis? I mean, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of them! :D

We can't pay for them nor for operating them. End of story.
 
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Wasn't they being offered free of charge, on as-is-basis? I mean, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of them! :D


Exactly! They are free! And the costs of operating them such as fuel and logistics will keep coming out of the Coalition Support Funds that Pakistan gets from the United States every year for its operations in K.P and FATA areas. No good argument can be built on the basis of 'oh we have no money to operate them'. The only institution in Pakistan aside from politicians with real money and spending power are the Armed Forces of Pakistan. If only people here knew...
 
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Weren't they being offered free of charge, on as-is-basis? I mean, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of them! :D

You need one too Khan sahib especially when you are disturbing the established order in Layyah. Dem bitches no like new folk.

They might be free but operating and maintaining 1600-2000 MRAPs would require a new over hall factory at HIT and i am not sure if Americans will agree to that.
 
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Layyah can be handled with a 9mm, they're no match for Khan Sahab. :D

Yara, won't be a problem setting up a new unit for maintenance @ HIT. Think of it like this, we get these, and somehow can get our hands on couple dozen cobras, Talibitches shall be eating dust before they can say Allah-u-Akbar.

You need one too Khan sahib especially when you are disturbing the established order in Layyah. Dem bitches no like new folk.

They might be free but operating and maintaining 1600-2000 MRAPs would require a new over hall factory at HIT and i am not sure if Americans will agree to that.
 
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Layyah can be handled with a 9mm, they're no match for Khan Sahab. :D

Yara, won't be a problem setting up a new unit for maintenance @ HIT. Think of it like this, we get these, and somehow can get our hands on couple dozen cobras, Talibitches shall be eating dust before they can say Allah-u-Akbar.

I agree. You get how important maintenance is because we are going to use these MRAPs for a good 20 years.
 
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Notwithstanding ignorant, Boo Frekin Hoo IDIOT newbies & there hormonal mental imbalance here!

Army has decided on what I have written. Army will chose after comparative trials and due process where chances are that the so called 'FREE' MRAP's may fail miserably!
 
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Notwithstanding ignorant, Boo Frekin Hoo IDIOT newbies & there hormonal mental imbalance here!

Army has decided on what I have written. Army will chose after comparative trials and due process where chances are that the so called 'FREE' MRAP's may fail miserably!
XYON
I am a bit disappointed with your post. The army may well have decided what you say and i cant help but disagree with them. The point I want to make is being a senior have you done justice to your seniority by your remarks in the post quoted above This is your third go at tweeking his wires .:Let it go man !!! You made a point and he made a point . Whats the fuss?
That aside there have been concerns raised regarding the terrain and the use of these huge beast on the terrain in North and South Waziristan. i dont know the terrain at all so cannot comment. If they are useless do they have any utuility on the not so treacherous front? The other issue remains the establishment of overhaul facilities. I suspect if we get enough numbers we can cannibolize some to keep the rest going. Regarding engines we might get by with compatible consumables but bigger items like gear bosxes and Cam shafts might be a problem. Also if US is desperate enough to off load them on us will they help us set up infrastructure. even on a 50:50 basis. MRAPs are not a game changer that they might object to and if it is a matter of spending 50-100 million dollars to off load "JUNK" worth billions then why not . But someone might need to negotiate really hard to get a deal. However our base line should be "We dont want them, but if we take them off your hands------"
Araz

Exactly! They are free! And the costs of operating them such as fuel and logistics will keep coming out of the Coalition Support Funds that Pakistan gets from the United States every year for its operations in K.P and FATA areas. No good argument can be built on the basis of 'oh we have no money to operate them'. The only institution in Pakistan aside from politicians with real money and spending power are the Armed Forces of Pakistan. If only people here knew...
nadi.
They are not free. nothing in life is ever free. Every thing has a cost attached to it. Believe me if they could have found a better use for them they would never have given them to us. Even if they do " gift them to us" we need to think of the cost of establishing infrastructrure the repairs required to make them functional and road worthy, the training of staff,and last but not the least their utility. The last factor needs trials and these MRAPS are not going anywhere anytime soon. PA needs to hurry with their decision but sometimes the waiting game does have its own advantages. Even if we struck a deal tomorrow they would not be fit for use for months or even upto a year. So better that we go into the quagmire with our eyes open and our options clearly thought out. The last factor is if we acquire them and then dont get rights to manufacture our establish overhaul facilities would they still be a good deal. For instance if we could get the Lazar2 in umbers in a Year and have established facilities for improvement and local building and export see the long term benefit in procuring these MRAPS suddenly does not appear to be that good.
We need to wait and let the Army decide after trials.
Araz
 
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MRAPs are awesome and fast... Love to drive these vehicles in battlefield 4
Just one Question guys, can mrap handle a ied attack? If yes then can it handle the roll over down a mountain during ied attack?
 
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