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Scotish independence dreams shattered, major islands demand independence!

waz

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Shetland Islands Council has voted overwhelmingly in favour of looking into ways of obtaining financial and political independence from Scotland.

Councillors voted 18 to two in favour of the motion seeking "financial and political self-determination".


Funding cuts and centralised decision-making by the Scottish National Party (SNP) were argued as reasons to explore independence.

Steven Coutts, the council leader, said "the status quo is not working" as "devolution and the Islands Act have not made any tangible difference to the quality of life".

He added that the Scottish parliament also feels "remote" to Shetland, which has a population of 23,000.


Plans intend to look into the option of Shetland being governed as a Crown Dependency, similar to Jersey and the Isle of Man, rather than becoming an independent nation.


This would mean they would be able to retain the revenue from oil in their waters, something that would negatively impact on Scotland's finance if the independence was obtained. :cheesy:

The motion read: "We are concerned that this ongoing situation is seriously threatening the prosperity and even basic sustainability of Shetland as a community."

Mr Coutts added that the level of funding provided for ferries "negatively impacts on Shetland and everyone of Shetland", despite government funding of more than £15m over the last three years.

Any move for independence would require an island-wide referendum.

Following the result, he said the council planned to speak to both the UK and Scottish governments next week regarding options Shetland has for achieving self-determination.

Mr Coutts added: "I hope they recognise the challenges of living in Shetland, like the high cost of living, but also the incredible opportunities political and financial self-determination could bring."

In response to the result of the vote, islands minister Paul Wheelhouse said neither Shetland nor any other island council submitted any requests for further powers under the Additional Powers Request (Scotland) Regulations introduced last year.





ORKNEY has confirmed it also has independence from Scotland on its mind - leading to fears of a break-up of Scotland.

It has been confirmed that Orkney would trigger a three-year-old decision to seek self-determination in the event of any future constitutional change - like Scotland's independence from the rest of the UK.


And it has been confirmed the Western Isles is looking at "maximising" its position in dealings with both the UK and Scottish governments having sought more powers for the islands along with Shetland and Orkney.

The development came as councillors in the Shetland Islands voted overwhelmingly to pursue ways of gaining independence from Scotland, giving the independence referendum-backing First Minister a dilemma of how to keep her country together while fighting to split the UK apart.
Islanders want to investigate the possibility of being governed as a Crown dependency, such as Jersey, rather than setting themselves up as an independent nation.


It comes just a month after the Scottish Government announced the Outer Hebrides, Orkney and Shetland will benefit from investment of up to £50m by the Scottish Government as part of an Islands Growth Deal.
Last year ministers released its National Islands Plan which aimed to tackle depopulation, a lack of housing and the need for improvements to transport and health services, Three years ago Orkney looked into whether it can loosen ties with Scotland and the UK or become independent in the wake of Brexit it has emerged.
And Orkney Islands Council leader James Stockan confirmed it was later agreed by the council that they would "seek self-determination" for the group of 70 islands "in the event of any future constitutional change".

"We want to seek our opportunity as a unique part of the UK that we could do something different if we wished," he said.

"All constitutional matters ultimately rest with Westminster, so the question is, we would need to make sure that is written into any future [Scottish independence] referendum.


"Shetland is a slightly different position in that they want to do this now.

"We will work with them and support them and work alongside them because we both have the same historic background and the same challenges from government and there are some unique opportunities in a post-Brexit world."

Some hope to adopt a similar path taken by the Faroe Islands, which have autonomous status within the Kingdom of Denmark.

Shetland in its motion to go down the route of self-determination, raised concern that more decision was being centralised and public funding being consistently reduced and that it was "seriously threatening the prosperity, and even basic sustainability, of Shetland as a community".


In the EU referendum, Orkney was the first Scottish area to declare and with a turnout of 68.4 percent Remain won with 63 percent to Leave’s 37 percent.

Mr Stockan added: "There are so many different opportunities in self-determination. We have a whole lot of opportunities that probably should have been afforded us in the past.

"There are some unique opportunities for Orkneys with Scandanavian countries, the Nordics.

"We may be peripheral to Europe, but we are certainly strategically central in the North Atlantic."

Shetland has a population of just over 20,000 and contains the Sullom Voe oil and gas terminal, with a number of oil fields off its coastline.


The Shetlands were the only part of Britain, along with the Western Isles of Scotland, that voted against EEC membership in a 1975 referendum.

Coutts Shetland council leader Steven Coutts suggested the Scottish parliament feels 'remote' to islanders and claims the levels of funding for ferries "negatively impacts on Shetland and everyone of Shetland" although the Government said it has provided more than £15million for ferry services over the past three years.

"We feel that the current governance structure does not work for Shetland. Increasingly decisions are being made in remote parliaments that impact significantly on the ability of our island community to thrive. Whether that be national rates of benefit, for example, universal credit which take no account of cost of living, planning decisions overturned, lack of mobile and broadband investment, or decisions on lifeline ferry routes.


"We are positive of the economic opportunities in Shetland, around energy transition, decommissioning, fisheries and aquaculture, the space industry. These are industries of national significances. But we need to have local policy and financial levers to ensure that this activity translates into thriving island communities."

In the final tense days of the 2014 independence referendum, the Orkney and Shetland MP Alistair Carmichael, who was minister for Scotland at the time, said the islands could try to remain part of Britain if the rest of Scotland left.


In the end, 55% of Scots voted to stay in Britain. The unionist vote in the Shetlands was 63.7% - one of the highest levels in Scotland.

Islands Minister, Paul Wheelhouse, said: “In 2018 we passed the Islands Act – a historic piece of legislation which hands more power to our island communities and acknowledges their uniqueness, by enabling relevant local authorities to request the transfer of responsibilities from Scottish Ministers to them, following consultation with their own local communities. No additional powers requests have been submitted thus far.

“It is the responsibility of individual local authorities to manage their own budgets and to allocate the total financial resources available to them, including on ferry services, on the basis of local needs and priorities. In order to protect and provide support to our island communities during the pandemic, we have had to prioritise our efforts to support key areas such as access to lifeline services and maintaining crucial supply chains.

“In partnership with the Islands Partnership Working Group and Scottish Islands Federation, we have identified key themes and aims within the National Islands Plan that responds to the impact of the pandemic. We are working on an Implementation Route Map, informed by our learning of how island communities have responded and adapted to changing circumstances.”

 
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Oh dear it looks like the chickens have come to roost and Scotland's nationalists find themselves well and truly screwed.



No more oil.



No more fishing rights.



No more renewable energy generation.

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Land size reduced.
Solid borders.



1600108083939.png


:sarcastic:
 
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I do not think it makes any difference to the chances of Scottish Independence.

An independent Scotland will just make a law to bring back these territories under centralised control.

The bigger problem is how does Scotland manage with a huge deficit of 7-8% of GDP.

With the loss of financial services in 2008 and now oil prices expected to be depressed permanently the finances of Independence do not work out without massive public spending decreases or tax rises.
 
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I do not think it makes any difference to the chances of Scottish Independence.

An independent Scotland will just make a law to bring back these territories under centralised control.

The bigger problem is how does Scotland manage with a huge deficit of 7-8% of GDP.

With the loss of financial services in 2008 and now oil prices expected to be depressed permanently the finances of Independence do not work out without massive public spending decreases or tax rises.

It makes a massive difference and constitutional experts have already stated this is game changing. The gravity of what has happened is hitting home.These islands were key to Scottish properity and they want out.
Also no, the nationalists cannot make a law and centralise it all, that’s akin to crushing democracy, and the will of the people. They have protected constituencies status, which is further enforced by the Lerwick declaration of greater autonomy.
You can’t do something illegal under law, and also what about the Scottish independence bid then? People would cry rank hypocrisy, which could lead to central government ruling against any such action.
The SNP’s time is up.
 
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As someone living in the UK we are going to see a drop in living standards for the foreseeable future post Brexit. Wages have been stagnant for the past 10 years and things look to be getting worse.
 
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It makes a massive difference and constitutional experts have already stated this is game changing. The gravity of what has happened is hitting home.These islands were key to Scottish properity and they want out.
Also no, the nationalists cannot make a law and centralise it all, that’s akin to crushing democracy, and the will of the people. They have protected constituencies status, which is further enforced by the Lerwick declaration of greater autonomy.
You can’t do something illegal under law, and also what about the Scottish independence bid then? People would cry rank hypocrisy, which could lead to central government ruling against any such action.
The SNP’s time is up.


Even if this is the case, Scottish oil is no longer an economic asset as the cost of production is not much lower than cost of selling on the world market.

Fisheries does not matter too much as it can only be worth at most 1% of Scottish GDP and I am being very very generous here.

The oil and the financial services bonanza that could have financed an Independent Scotland with the same living standards that they get from being part of the UK has long since gone.

SNP would have to convince Scottish voters that after an initial 10-15 years of hard economic times they can return an Independent Scotland to the living standards that they enjoy being part of the UK. Sometimes nationalism trumps hard economics.
 
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Even if this is the case, Scottish oil is no longer an economic asset as the cost of production is not much lower than cost of selling on the world market.

Fisheries does not matter too much as it can only be worth at most 1% of Scottish GDP and I am being very very generous here.

The oil and the financial services bonanza that could have financed an Independent Scotland with the same living standards that they get from being part of the UK has long since gone.

SNP would have to convince Scottish voters that after an initial 10-15 years of hard economic times they can return an Independent Scotland to the living standards that they enjoy being part of the UK. Sometimes nationalism trumps hard economics.

It’s not just about oil or even fish. I clearly outlined that in the my first post. It’s about among many things future growth industries such as renewables, shipping routes etc.
There’s no way that the Scottish nationalists can say give it 13 years or so we will be fine, just how? Like you said with the massive loss of tax revenue they will suffer this will hit investment hard, in a country which already relies on disproportionate government spending to boost growth due to its tiny population.
What about Scotland’s ageing population? Their population is ageing faster than any other U.K. country and they don’t even have a single ‘young city’ in the nation, they are all in England. Here’s just one stat ; Scotland’s population is continuing to age, with a 50% increase in over 60s projected by 2033. Who is going to work and drive growth?
The bottom line is their bluff has been called and it’s dropped them into the pit with no light. The independence movement will breathing its last very soon. Commentators are already contemplating this.
 
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I don't see how it affects Scotland independence movement.

No offence, but Scotland then Ireland, I only see Global Britain dreams shattered.
 
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I don't see how it affects Scotland independence movement.

No offence, but Scotland then Ireland, I only see Global Britain dreams shattered.

Then you need to read more into it. Here, imagine losing your golden goose. Now think what happens.
 
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I guess its a game played by UK establishment to stop Scottish independence. I dont think it would work and would infact further push away scotland.
Seems in the end the already tiny UK would be divided into small territories. What an irony, they used to divide and rule other nations, now they are getting divided into tiny pieces.
 
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Ha Ha, bloody ha is all I can say.

Something Mrs Krankie B.. now needs to answer.

How can Scotland deny a referendem to these Islands, while asking for one for itself. Maybe the UK should help these Islands become crown depdencies first, and then let the people of Scotland have a "2nd once-in-a-life-time-vote ?" ....
 
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As someone living in the UK we are going to see a drop in living standards for the foreseeable future post Brexit. Wages have been stagnant for the past 10 years and things look to be getting worse.

Wages have been stagnant while we have been in the EU, once we are free of the EU, we can make economic decisions in our interest, and both wages and our economy will grow again..
 
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