Scorpene submarine project to miss target again

[selvan33]

Scorpene submarine project to miss target again as Spanish consultants quit



NEW DELHI: The Scorpene submarine project underway in Mumbai has suffered fresh troubles, with a new assessment showing another 18 months of delay even as its Spanish consultants have left the venture.

According to sources, Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) has informed the Navy that the project would be delayed by another 18 months from the 2015 deadline announced by defence minister AK Antony in Parliament last year.

Going by the latest MDL projections, the first Scorpene submarine would be ready for induction only by 2016-end. When the contract was signed, the first submarine was to be ready in 2012. However, the delay could be worse, according to other developments over the last few days.

Consultants from Navantia, the Spanish shipbuilding company, left the project in the last few days. The technical assistance pact for Navantia and DCNS, the French partner in the consortium, expired on March 31, sources said. With MDL failing to get the defence ministry's approval in time, about 10 Spanish consultants working on the submarine project left India. This could further add to the delay, sources said.

Adding to the troubles over the massive submarine project, with a budget of over Rs 23,000 crore, is the fact that the DCNS leadership is expected to meet with MDL top brass this week in Mumbai and present their own demand for additional technical assistance fee.

The developments come at a time when India's submarine fleet is expected to dwindle to just seven or so in two years time. Presently, India operates 10 ageing Russian Kilo class and four German HDW submarines. Indian Navy also has a Russian nuclear submarine INS Chakra on lease.

The Scorpene project, among the biggest defence deals signed by India till now, was concluded in October 2005. Over the years, the project has run into several delays. Originally, the first submarine was to be delivered in 2012. However, because of the complications and two-year delay in concluding contracts related to material to be procured by MDL, the project got delayed by three years.

Delivery by end-2016

Hulls for all six submarines, made of steel supplied by French division of ArcelorMittal, are ready in Mumbai, and the outfitting of equipment and systems is underway. With the Spanish consultants quitting, work on the part of the hull that they were responsible for could be delayed.

According to the new estimates, the first submarine will be ready for commissioning by end of 2016. And then, a new submarine could be ready for induction every 9-12 months.

According to the present projections, the last two submarines would have air independent propulsion systems (AIP) that would help the submarine stay underway water for one to three extra weeks. Without AIP, a Scorpene submarine can stay underwater continuously for five to six days. DRDO is presently developing an indigenous AIP, with assistance from DCNS. Initial assessments about the indigenous AIP system is said to be very good though with only about two weeks of endurance.
Scorpene submarine project to miss target again as Spanish consultants quit - The Times of India

 

[1nd1a]

This is no more a news....News would be if they start delivering the subs by 2016. Also, if French wins the next contract....

 

[Killswitch]

Maybe these subs should have been bought off the shelf (made in France). They would have cost less and been delivered on time. Sometimes "made in India" can be a a bad thing.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

Some important things to notice

Scorpene submarine project to miss target again as Spanish consultants quit



The Scorpene submarine project underway in Mumbai has suffered fresh troubles, with a new assessment showing another 18 months of delay even as its Spanish consultants have left the venture.



With MDL failing to get the defence ministry's approval in time, about 10 Spanish consultants working on the submarine project left India. This could further add to the delay, sources said.

DCNS leadership is expected to meet with MDL top brass this week in Mumbai and present their own demand for additional technical assistance fee.




Delivery by end-2016




According to the present projections, the last two submarines would have air independent propulsion systems (AIP) that would help the submarine stay underway water for one to three extra weeks. Without AIP, a Scorpene submarine can stay underwater continuously for five to six days. DRDO is presently developing an indigenous AIP, with assistance from DCNS. Initial assessments about the indigenous AIP system is said to be very good though with only about two weeks of endurance.
Scorpene submarine project to miss target again as Spanish consultants quit - The Times of India

 

[scarcry]

ABOARD FNS MONTCALM (MORMUGAO, GOA): After hitting rough waters for several years with bribery allegations, the first of the six Scorpene submarines, ordered by the Indian Navy as part of technology transfer from France, is to be delivered in 2014, French ambassador Francois Richier said on Saturday. The rest five submarines are to be delivered every year.

"The first submarine would be ready by 2014, heralding an important and strategic tie-up between both the nations on the defence front", said Richier told mediapersons on board French naval destroyer FNS Montcalm, anchored at Goa's Mormugao harbour for a naval exercise. 'Project-75' is under way at Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL) in cooperation with French company DCNS.

"It is a full transfer of technology, something we don't do with everybody. Defence component of India-French relations is very important to us," said Richier.

The Scorpene deal has been under a cloud of controversy with the government conducting an inquiry into financial irregularities committed by a former director in-charge of the whopping Rs 23,562-crore project, which has been dogged by huge time and cost overruns. Defence minister AK Antony told the Lok Sabha last month that a complaint was received alleging financial irregularities against the then director in-charge of the Scorpene submarine project in a defence shipyard (MDL) and the complaint is under inquiry.

The French envoy met Goa chief minister Manohar Parrikar to discuss areas of cooperation between France and Goa, including higher education and urban development.

WTF? I think the spanish components are an add on........or so else hulls completed, being outfitted and this news a day old. Can anyone clarify please?(PS: No pakistani/chinese opinions please.Yes jf17 has no avionics, IRST and NVG to speak off...)

 

[JohnSeb]

Slow moving Indian bureaucracy @ work again

 

[Koovie]

Instead of buying 3 new Talwar class frigates, we should buy some Amur class subs from Russia of the shelf....

 

[scarcry]

Instead of buying 3 new Talwar class frigates, we should buy some Amur class subs from Russia of the shelf....

Man why 2 different dates......first 2014 ready...now this bullshit. The 2014 news is 1 day old.

 

[janon]

Man why 2 different dates......first 2014 ready...now this bullshit. The 2014 news is 1 day old.

The 2014 date is what the french ambassador (who is a diplomat sitting in a palace in new delhi) said. This news reflects the gound reality from MDL.

The diplomat's job is to paint a rosy picture about his country, and be a PR executive for his country. He will say anything to pretend that things are all hunky dory, so that his country will keep winning contracts. That's what he gets paid to do.

Meanwhile, from the report, it seems that the MoD failed to grant an extension to the consultants on time, due to which they are packinig their bags and going home, leaving MDL high and dry (so to speak). It happens only in India. Other countries do everything by hook or crook to retain foreign expertise if the country lacks it. China surrpetitiously bought all the soviet aerospace engineers when the Soviet Union collapsed. USA secretly imported the best scientific minds of nazi germany, including the redoubtable von Braun in what was dubbed "Operation Paperclip".

And in India, the ministry worked too slow to sign a few papers, and that means that the foreign experts helping us build a scorrpene have to go back. The central ministries need to be overhauled and revamped, if India has to progress. Not two ways about it.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

Let's hope there are not any more delays otherwise these subs will be obsolete by the time they are commisioned

 

[OrionHunter]

So what's new?

 

[Yogi]

Instead of buying 3 new Talwar class frigates, we should buy some Amur class subs from Russia of the shelf....

With Chinese pitching hard for Amur 1650, its chances of getting selected in P75I project r already slim.

Bigger Scropenes still remains one of the top contenders dispite all these regular dramas going on at MDL unless the Germans come with some good deal.

 

[GR!FF!N]

The 2014 date is what the french ambassador (who is a diplomat sitting in a palace in new delhi) said. This news reflects the gound reality from MDL.

The diplomat's job is to paint a rosy picture about his country, and be a PR executive for his country. He will say anything to pretend that things are all hunky dory, so that his country will keep winning contracts. That's what he gets paid to do.

Meanwhile, from the report, it seems that the MoD failed to grant an extension to the consultants on time, due to which they are packinig their bags and going home, leaving MDL high and dry (so to speak). It happens only in India. Other countries do everything by hook or crook to retain foreign expertise if the country lacks it. China surrpetitiously bought all the soviet aerospace engineers when the Soviet Union collapsed. USA secretly imported the best scientific minds of nazi germany, including the redoubtable von Braun in what was dubbed "Operation Paperclip".

And in India, the ministry worked too slow to sign a few papers, and that means that the foreign experts helping us build a scorrpene have to go back. The central ministries need to be overhauled and revamped, if India has to progress. Not two ways about it.

deadline changed within 2 days??WTF??looks like French ambassador needs same kind of lesson like Italian one..for lying..

Scorpene is one god forsaken deal.only thing that deal is good at is delay.by the way,looks like the deadline will be what previously said,first sub in 2015-2016 and then each sub in 9-10 months..

 

[GR!FF!N]

With Chinese pitching hard for Amur 1650, its chances of getting selected in P75I project r already slim.

Bigger Scropenes still remains one of the top contenders dispite all these regular dramas going on at MDL unless the Germans come with some good deal.

I don't think that will be the issue as we both use Kilo Subs,don't we??if Amur-1650 is better than scorpene,then we should go for it.though in specs,new version of scorpene will be a great sub.though 2 different kind of subs in short number,maintenance will be an issue..

anyway,I found this..read it...

Scorpene might make way for the Amur 1650 | Cucekianz.com

also,they(Russia) are not only offering us subs,but also offering the help to build subs own our own..thats something.aslo,Amur-1650 has better AIP,atleast thats what they are claiming..

Moscow May Help India Build Closed-Cycle Submarines | Defense | RIA Novosti

 

[Yogi]

I don't think that will be the issue as we both use Kilo Subs,don't we??if Amur-1650 is better than scorpene,then we should go for it.though in specs,new version of scorpene will be a great sub.though 2 different kind of subs in short number,maintenance will be an issue..

anyway,I found this..read it...

Scorpene might make way for the Amur 1650 | Cucekianz.com

also,they(Russia) are not only offering us subs,but also offering the help to build subs own our own..thats something.aslo,Amur-1650 has better AIP,atleast thats what they are claiming..

Moscow May Help India Build Closed-Cycle Submarines | Defense | RIA Novosti

AFA the Kilos r concerned those were old days n we didn't had much option. However, i m not saying that MoDs would sack the Russkies for providing same subs to China but its definitely not something that will act in their favour in the selection process IMO...

AFA AIP is concerned the Russian r yet to come up with a functioning AIP but the prospects of future JV in Subs with India sounds appealling n something we should look forward too(i wasn't aware of this )

But Scopenes have already established lines in India that would allow easy aborption of tech besides u can see very well as to how good our PSUs r at state of art tech absorption(from the OP itself). So, going for a different platform will again cause the same issues.

What i m really interested in, is whether the Germans will offer us a JV for Type 216 along with Type214 that could be a game changer IMO