Scorpene submarine project to miss target again

[scarcry]

The 2014 date is what the french ambassador (who is a diplomat sitting in a palace in new delhi) said. This news reflects the gound reality from MDL.

The diplomat's job is to paint a rosy picture about his country, and be a PR executive for his country. He will say anything to pretend that things are all hunky dory, so that his country will keep winning contracts. That's what he gets paid to do.

Meanwhile, from the report, it seems that the MoD failed to grant an extension to the consultants on time, due to which they are packinig their bags and going home, leaving MDL high and dry (so to speak). It happens only in India. Other countries do everything by hook or crook to retain foreign expertise if the country lacks it. China surrpetitiously bought all the soviet aerospace engineers when the Soviet Union collapsed. USA secretly imported the best scientific minds of nazi germany, including the redoubtable von Braun in what was dubbed "Operation Paperclip".

And in India, the ministry worked too slow to sign a few papers, and that means that the foreign experts helping us build a scorrpene have to go back. The central ministries need to be overhauled and revamped, if India has to progress. Not two ways about it.

Let me get this straight......

1. Hulls done (check)
2. Launched (check)
3. By 2014 basic vanilla scorpene ready. (check)
4. Our customised scorpene sexing up(2015-16?)
5. AIP (2016-17?)

Any views guys?

 

[Koovie]

With Chinese pitching hard for Amur 1650, its chances of getting selected in P75I project r already slim.

Bigger Scropenes still remains one of the top contenders dispite all these regular dramas going on at MDL unless the Germans come with some good deal.

Has the Scorpene AIP ?

I would not go for the Germans, since they are quite pacifist they would have problems after the arms treaty.

 

[arp2041]

@Abingdonboy @sancho

WTF is this??

just 2 days back French Envoy said that the first sub will be delivered by 2014.

Now this report is claiming that the first sub will be delayed by 16 months of the original deadline of 2015

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy @sancho

WTF is this??

just 2 days back French Envoy said that the first sub will be delivered by 2014.

Now this report is claiming that the first sub will be delayed by 16 months of the original deadline of 2015

Yeah, I was going to post something along these lines, I have absolutely NO idea what is going on. The timing of these two reports is so close that nothing has changed in the span of 48 hours. And whilst the case has been made that the 2014 date was stated by an out of touch diplomat, I don't buy this as such diplomats don't go around making such nonsensical statements based on nothing. His statement was based on what he considers to be true based on information he has obtained from an offical source.



God knows @arp2041, what is going on,.

 

[Yogi]

Has the Scorpene AIP ?

I would not go for the Germans, since they are quite pacifist they would have problems after the arms treaty.

Ofcourse, it was India who didn't opt for AIP from France n planned to go for indigenous AIP from DRDO for the last 2 subs Of the Project 75.

If u rem even Pakistani Augosta 90Bs have AIPs.

I know about the Germans but got some of the best subs. N contracts as big as P75I can make their through Arms Treaty n Pacifist mindset.

U might not know but our Arihant Nuke subs got a lot of input from our Type 209s, infact they use the same steel.
It was one of the main reasons for selection of Type 209 that it was ideal for designing nuke platform at that time.

 

[Yogi]

@Abingdonboy @sancho

WTF is this??

just 2 days back French Envoy said that the first sub will be delivered by 2014.

Now this report is claiming that the first sub will be delayed by 16 months of the original deadline of 2015

I believe we should wait for a while as only TOI has reported this, let some other sources confirm it but if true its a big blow to IN plans.

Hopefully our laze Govt. sort out things with the French to workout something here, this is the hights of incompetence on our part...

 

[sancho]

The 2014 date is what the french ambassador (who is a diplomat sitting in a palace in new delhi) said. This news reflects the gound reality from MDL.

On the other hand, this is an TOI article, which is not considered as the most reliable source and the source itself is unnamed, unlike the direct statement of the French Ambassador to India. So lets see which one turns out as correct.

Meanwhile, from the report, it seems that the MoD failed to grant an extension to the consultants on time, due to which they are packinig their bags and going home, leaving MDL high and dry (so to speak).

Seems like that, but I was surprised about the Navantia consultats, since I never heared of them being involved in our deal.

What i m really interested in, is whether the Germans will offer us a JV for Type 216 along with Type214 that could be a game changer IMO

Yes, that is the only game changer I see as well, although the U214 wouldn't play a role anymore then, since the U216 is based on the U212.

 

[Yogi]

@arp2041 @Abingdonboy @sancho

One of the reasons for delays could be the Agusta VVIP scandal, idk whether its already posted or not but here :

The VVIP helicopter scam has cast its shadow on yet another naval project as the defence ministry is withholding a decision on the procurement of 100 Black Shark torpedos from a Finmeccanica group company for six Scorpene submarines.

Scorpene submarine purchase put on hold

 

[Abingdonboy]

@arp2041 @Abingdonboy @sancho

One of the reasons for delays could be the Agusta VVIP scandal, idk whether its already posted or not but here :


Scorpene submarine purchase put on hold

I don't see how an issue in procuring torpedoes for the Scropenes will in any way affect the construction of the concerned subs.

 

[sancho]

@arp2041 @Abingdonboy @sancho

One of the reasons for delays could be the Agusta VVIP scandal, idk whether its already posted or not but here :

Scorpene submarine purchase put on hold

Doubtfull, since the procurement of weapons has not much to do with the production of the sub.

 

[Yogi]

Doubtfull, since the procurement of weapons has not much to do with the production of the sub.

I don't see how an issue in procuring torpedoes for the Scropenes will in any way affect the construction of the concerned subs.

I m not saying that but it could be one of the many reasons for the on going delays in completion of the subs subsystems maybe....

 

[Abingdonboy]

I m not saying that but it could be one of the many reasons for the on going delays in completion of the subs subsystems maybe....

I don't see it buddy.

 

[sancho]

I don't see it buddy.

Me neither, since it's only a topedo with usual size for the torpedo tubes, if they would integrate Brahmos VLS on the otherside, that might have been the case, since that is a major modification.

 

[arp2041]

@arp2041 @Abingdonboy @sancho

One of the reasons for delays could be the Agusta VVIP scandal, idk whether its already posted or not but here :



Scorpene submarine purchase put on hold

Buddy, I DOUBT this news on the first place, so there is no sense of our ASSUMPTIONS.

we have to chk whose words carry more weight - TOI or Ambassador of a country??

 

[scarcry]

A modernised version built for Pakistan, the Agosta 90B, has a crew of 36 plus 5 officers and can be equipped with the MESMA air-independent propulsion (AIP) system.

Those guys need to have enough money to buy them in the first place!