Scholarships for 12,000 more students in US

[azzo]

I don't consider any religious and conservative people in KSA for being nuts outside of the tiny minority that is pro-ISIS. My main problem with them is rather their support for some of the silly laws that are in place in KSA and for their unwillingness to accept necessary changes. That's all.

I wouldn't call them that just for the sake of insults, but there are a large group of religious young men aged 16~30 who are ruining it for everybody, especially for the real religious scholars. They invade private properties, ruin events, and hang ideological propaganda boards all over governmental religious facilities, which eventually get taken down. And this is a Najd only symptom, I have never seen it in any other region. they have a heightened since of worth and piety which, in their minds, gives them the right to dictate how the rest of the "Awam" should live their lives, regardless of the law.

I'm being real here. I don't want to be hypocrite on their behalf.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I wouldn't call them that just for the sake of insults, but there are a large group of religious young men aged 16~30 who are ruining it for everybody, especially for the real religious scholars. They invade private properties, ruin events, and hang ideological propaganda boards all over governmental religious facilities, which eventually get taken down. And this is a Najd only symptom, I have never seen it in any other region. they have a heightened since of worth and piety which, in their minds, gives them the right to dictate how the rest of the "Awam" should live their lives, regardless of the law.

I'm being real here. I don't want to be hypocrite on their behalf.

Really? That sounds strange and surprising. Can you give me articles about this problem form the Saudi Arabian media bro?

How big a percentage are they?

May I guess are they mostly based in Buraydah and Riyadh?

Also just to make a comparison do you consider someone like Sheikh Khalid al-Jubeir as a radical nut?



He is both a doctor and a scholar as you know.

Or the likes of Al-Alwan. If it is the last one we fully agree.

@JUBA and @Full Moon what is your say about this?

Yes, indeed I have never heard about such behavior anywhere else before.

 

[azzo]

Really? That sounds strange and surprising. Can you give me articles about this problem form the Saudi Arabian media bro?

How big a percentage are they?

May I guess are they mostly based in Buraydah and Riyadh?

Also just to make a comparison do you consider someone like Sheikh Khalid al-Jubeir as a radical nut?



He is both a doctor and a scholar as you know.

@JUBA and @Full Moon what is your say about this?

Yes, indeed I have never hurt about such behavior anywhere else before.

Here is some of them harassing a British guy with his Saudi wife (they were checking out from the family section cashier), where they claimed to be the "Police" and told him to shut up and stop arguing:

And here they are chasing him off to his car and jumping on him like monkeys, because their ego got smashed after the British guy told them off and proved he did nothing wrong (Notice the wife defending her husband):

here is a guy ruining the government sponsored event of "junadria," because they were holding a musical event. (PS what I hate most about this incident in particular is their hypocrisy, They always claimed that "protesting" or giving advice to the government and rulers should be in secrecy and in private circles and that it's "haram" to show any kind of descent to the government in public. But, as you can see here, They have no problem embarrassing government officials and police when it doesn't suit their own narrow agendas, and doesn't benefit them.

​

Those are just few examples, and I don't wanna stir the pot.

​

Also just to make a comparison do you consider someone like Sheikh Khalid al-Jubeir as a radical nut?

I don't think I'm fit to give any opinion on him, to each his own and everyone should follow their own heart.

​

I love religion, but such young hatchlings should NOT have any kind of power or right to lecture well educated people who are holders of college degrees and professionals in all fields about ANYTHING in life just because of how they look or how pious they think they are.

Religion is NOT exclusive to anyone, and no one should have a monopoly on it.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@azzo

Of course I am also against those people.

But they are just ma6aaw3a are they not?

Such people would not exist if the Hai'a did not exist. A minority like that will always exist if such a system exists alongside them. In my eyes the Hai'a should be abolished as it is outdated.

They legitimize themselves on the "لأمر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر" doctrine. Establishing something like that already creates mistrust towards the people. IMO we don't need this anymore. What do you say about this?

We should IMO follow the Qatari model. They have a healthy balance. This thing about the Saudi Arabian society being "unique" is bullshit. I don't buy this. It's become "unique" on some fronts exactly due to man-made laws. Such as the ridiculous ban on women driving which has nothing to do with Islam or even the "culture". Women at the time of the Prophet (saws) rode horses and camels and now 1400 years later they are banned from driving cars but can fly planes. Come on. That law really annoys me and it's an embarrassment.

 

[azzo]

It's not just the "hai'a" though, there's a cult of similarly dress men who are not part of any organization, who are transcending on people's rights. And I agree that, as it is now, the hai'a is outdated, they need to be phased out and and given specific and clear tasks, with more strict regulations.

They should not be roaming around the city aimlessly, dictating how people should live their lives, people who are not breaking any Saudi law.

Attacking a girl just because she's filming him. And he's not even Hai'a.

Reminds me of this:

The first thing that king Salman did btw, was kick the corrupt leaders of Hai'a among other things.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

It's not just the "hai'a" though, there's a cult of similarly dress men who are not part of any organization, who are transcending on people's rights. And I agree that, as it is now, the hai'a is outdated, they need to be phased out and and given specific and clear tasks, with more strict regulations.

They should not be roaming around the city aimlessly, dictating how people should live their lives, people who are not breaking any Saudi law.

Attacking a girl just because she's filming him. And he's not even Hai'a.

Reminds me of this:

The first thing that king Salman did btw, was kick the corrupt leaders of Hai'a among other things.

I heard about small instances but I always took that as small instances among the ma6aaw3a. Great that we can agree about the Hai'a. I actually think that they should be completely abolished. We can do perfectly fine without them. Just like we will survive the idiotic ban on women driving and a few other idiotic laws IMO.

I have never seen such imitators in Hijaz and if they were doing such things to me I would be very frank with them.

The only thing that I am "worried about" when it comes to King Salman is that some of his advisors are reactionary. On this front King Abdullah was better internally at least but it's also too quick to judge.

It would be good if the GCC leaders sometimes encouraged the leaders to kickstart some of the reforms quicker. I mean they can take a look at Qatar and UAE and see that their models are working.

 

[azzo]

I heard about small instances but I always took that as small instances among the ma6aaw3a. Great that we can agree about the Hai'a. I actually think that they should be completely abolished. We can do perfectly fine without them. Just like we will survive the idiotic ban on women driving and a few other idiotic laws IMO.

You and me agree, but some people don't, and they're very vocal about it, so it is better to happen gradually imo.

And the king himself said there's no law to prevent women from driving, many princes tried to encourage people to have an open mind about it, but they got attacked harshly in the social media, so they just never brought it again.

I have never seen such imitators in Hijaz and if they were doing such things to me I would be very frank with them.

I love Hijazi people, they are good and open minded people. Open minded being the key word here..

The only thing that I am "worried about" when it comes to King Salman is that some of his advisors are reactionary. On this front King Abdullah was better internally at least but it's also too quick to judge.

Yeah, King Salman did a lot in these short months in reforming institutions. And kicking out out some corrupt leaders.

I heard about small instances but I always took that as small instances among the ma6aaw3a. Great that we can agree about the Hai'a. I actually think that they should be completely abolished. We can do perfectly fine without them. Just like we will survive the idiotic ban on women driving and a few other idiotic laws IMO.

I have never seen such imitators in Hijaz and if they were doing such things to me I would be very frank with them.

The only thing that I am "worried about" when it comes to King Salman is that some of his advisors are reactionary. On this front King Abdullah was better internally at least but it's also too quick to judge.

It would be good if the GCC leaders sometimes encouraged the leaders to kickstart some of the reforms quicker. I mean they can take a look at Qatar and UAE and see that their models are working.

KSA can't follow Qatar and UAE examples I'm afraid.. the society here is really complex and can't handle drastic changes. I mean Qatari citizens are only ~200k and Emiratis are around one million. so I think we have to find our own way..

 

[Saif al-Arab]

You and me agree, but some people don't, and they're very vocal about it, so it is better to happen gradually imo.

And the king himself said there's no law to prevent women from driving, many princes tried to encourage people to have an open mind about it, but they got attacked harshly in the social media, so they just never brought it again.



I love Hijazi people, they are good and open minded people. Open minded being the key word here..



Yeah, King Salman did a lot in these short months in reforming institutions. And kicking out out some corrupt leaders.



KSA can't follow Qatar and UAE examples I'm afraid.. the society here is really complex and can't handle drastic changes. I mean Qatari citizens are only ~200k and Emiratis are around one million. so I think we have to find our own way..

I know. Their thought process is so different from mine that I cannot understand them. I really can't. So unfortunately I won't be a person that will be good for any dialogue on this front.

I know that the "ban" is actually not technically a ban on women driving as such but rather women cannot take a driving license. So in essence it is the same and if I recall this "law" was not in place just 30 years ago. Much like the sudden ban on cinemas. Of course we have to thank the retards in 1979 for that. Unfortunately here I am not only referring to the Mullah's across the Gulf but Juhayman and his gangs.

Thank you. In fact all the peoples of KSA regardless of region, historical province and ethnic origins are by large great people. All have strengths and weaknesses.

I know but what I meant here is that most of our population would be fine with how things are run in Qatar minus the huge number of expats there and all that follows with that. At least this is what I would like to believe and I don't think that I am entirely wrong here.

Anyway got to go Azzo. Take care.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Speaking about our debate (I know unrelated to the topic but don't know where to post it otherwise) this is encouraging.

Sports for Saudi women – we’re on the right track

Sunday, 24 May 2015


Samar Fatany

Today the country is buzzing with public debates and there is a sense of urgency about the need to address social and economic problems. Talk shows and social media debates are becoming more popular nationwide creating a healthy environment. The media and the cyber community are certainly energized and are beginning to play a bigger role in addressing political, economic and social issues in Saudi society.

One of the most interesting debates in our media involves the high rate of obesity among Saudi women and the lack of adequate remedies to address the epidemic. Unhealthy diet and physical inactivity have had a negative effect on women’s health and are the main causes of obesity and many chronic diseases, such as high blood pressure, cancer, diabetes, and osteoporosis, among others.

Daoud al-Sherian, a prominent talk show host, recently invited four women involved in sports and the well-being of women to discuss the reasons behind the problem and to come up with appropriate solutions. The one-hour show involved a new breed of young women who shared their experiences in promoting sports for women in the Kingdom, a subject that was taboo for a very long time. The program also included many statements from the public criticizing the lack of affordable sports facilities and public parks to help women exercise and fight obesity and related diseases.

One of the participants was Lina Almaeena, founder and team captain of Jeddah United a sports academy in Jeddah. She talked about her experience with depression and how she was cured through exercise and sports and since then how her sports academy has been helping many women lead a more healthy lifestyle and stay fit and happy. She explained that exercise produces hormones of happiness and boosts confidence and helps women physically, mentally and socially.

Lina argued that group sports are more effective forms of exercise because they are more vigorous and entertaining at the same time. She stressed that there is a lack of public parks and sports facilities for women in our country and that the government should do more to support the sports culture in Saudi Arabia. Exercise should be a way of life and society should be more involved in promoting sports for women.

Aljohara Falata, a lawyer and coach at Riyadh United sports academy, spoke about the growing interest among girls for soccer and the lack of adequate playing fields or sports facilities for girls in schools. She agreed that the lack of public parks or playgrounds for girls deprives them of the opportunity to train or enjoy a game.

Zain Abu Sakhr, a physical trainer, spoke about the importance of exercise for every woman’s well-being. She said that there is no substitute for workouts and weight training but that, unfortunately, many Saudi women lack the awareness and are reluctant to go through vigorous exercise that can help them lose weight or stay in shape. Many women believe that walking is enough exercise; however, they do not realize that if it is not brisk walking or running it is not as effective, and as a result we have a high prevalence of obesity among women.

Dealing with harassment
Meanwhile, many Saudi women nowadays are enjoying the walkways that have been built in different districts; however, the majority complain that they do not feel comfortable walking in their abayas and having to deal with harassment.

Hana Al-Alwani, a sports journalist, said that mainstream media is not aware of the individual efforts being made to promote sports for women in the Kingdom, and that, therefore, there is very little media coverage for such initiatives. She said the Presidency of Youth Welfare needs to issue legal permits for sports centers and apply effective strategies and adequate funds to facilitate exercise for women.

The four experts discussed the challenges and solutions and urged the government to provide properly trained teachers and coaches and stressed that parents should be involved in providing a healthy lifestyle for their children.

They all agreed that the establishment of sports clubs for women is a valid demand that would certainly provide a service that is long overdue.

Indeed, involving women who are experts in sports and using their input to develop policies and regulations to promote sports for women would be a step in the right direction.

This move should be followed by the elimination of other rigid rules that are imposed unnecessarily and the encouragement of more flexible attitudes that can allow exercise and entertainment in people’s lives.

A more effective national policy to address social and economic detriments to health and an awareness campaign to enhance a healthy lifestyle are the need of the hour.

This article was first published on May 24, 2015.
___________
Samar Fatany is a Chief Broadcaster in the English section at Jeddah Broadcasting Station. Over the past 28 years, she has introduced many news, cultural, and religious programs and has conducted several interviews with official delegations and prominent political personalities visiting the kingdom. Fatany has made significant contributions in the fields of public relations and social awareness in Saudi Arabia and has been involved in activities aiming at fighting extremism and enhancing women’s role in serving society. She has published three books: “Saudi Perceptions & Western Misconceptions,” “Saudi Women towards a new era” and “Saudi Challenges & Reforms.”

Last Update: Sunday, 24 May 2015 KSA 06:30 - GMT 03:30

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...for-Saudi-women-we-re-on-the-right-track.html

I wanted to say this earlier here on PDF but I know that it's controversial and I don't want to offend anyone here from Najd, but if KSA was ruled by a family from Hijaz and under the influence of a clergy from Hijaz many of the most silly laws would not have existed. I am almost 99,9% sure about that. KSA would be a MUCH different country on this front.

Will you as a Najdi agree with that?

 

[azzo]

I wanted to say this earlier here on PDF but I know that it's controversial and I don't want to offend anyone here from Najd, but if KSA was ruled by a family from Hijaz and under the influence of a clergy from Hijaz many of the most silly laws would not have existed. I am almost 99,9% sure about that. KSA would be a MUCH different country on this front.

Will you as a Najdi agree with that?

I think the it would be different, but don't forget that the most populated region is the central region, and they're the ones who contribute the most to the Saudi culture based on numbers alone.

The ruling family's influence is based on the majority, since the ruling family is mostly liberal, and they must abide by the countries' traditions and tribal alignments to maintain stability. That's why I don't think it would've made much difference if they originated from Hijaz or not.

And I just want to say that what's happening in Najd is really normal, since it's mostly been isolated from outside influences for so long, since it's a desolate area with no real significance, unlike Hijaz, which is an important hub, that receives many visitors and where different cultures and people get to meet and mingle, so naturally the city will have a more open mind and a more trusting outlook to the world.

I see it even here in the U.S. in important port cities like San Francisco, vs cities in the midwest for example.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I think the it would be different, but don't forget that the most populated region is the central region, and they're the ones who contribute the most to the Saudi culture based on numbers alone.

The ruling family's influence is based on the majority, since the ruling family is mostly liberal, and they must abide by the countries' traditions and tribal alignments to maintain stability. That's why I don't think it would've made much difference if they originated from Hijaz or not.

And I just want to say that what's happening in Najd is really normal, since it's mostly been isolated from outside influences for so long, since it's a desolate area with no real significance, unlike Hijaz, which is an important hub, that receives many visitors and where different cultures and people get to meet and mingle, so naturally the city will have a more open mind and a more trusting outlook to the world.

I see it even here in the U.S. in important port cities like San Francisco, vs cities in the midwest for example.

Are you sure about that brother? Hijaz is the most populated region of KSA. Over 1/3 of our population is Hijazi.

The thing is that the populations are spread fairly evenly between Hijaz, Najd and then the Southern regions and Eastern regions with the North being sparsely populated.

I have to disagree here. I think that had the Hashemites for instance regained control of all of what is today KSA many things would have been differently especially in terms of the social and religious front. Of course I am not saying that it would necessarily be better.

Najd is actually quite a diverse place contrary to popular belief from what I have read about. Please correct me here but are the Najdi population not quite diverse with origins to nearby Hijaz, Yemen, Levant, Mesopotamia and Eastern Arabia? I mean Najd is in the center of those neighboring regions.

If we are talking about pure geography etc. then you are correct and history as a whole. I don't agree with it not being a cosmopolitan region historically let alone today of course.

We should not forget that there have almost always been migrations out of Najdi to nearby Iraq, Levant and elsewhere in the Arab world (all the way to Morocco in fact) which left a big marker. Midwest would not be such a bad comparison actually with Hijaz and Eastern Arabia being our equivalents of the West and East coasts.

 

[azzo]

I have to disagree here. I think that had the Hashemites for instance regained control of all of what is today KSA many things would have been differently especially in terms of the social and religious front. Of course I am not saying that it would necessarily be better.

Najd is actually quite a diverse place contrary to popular belief from what I have read about. Please correct me here but are the Najdi population not quite diverse with origins to nearby Hijaz, Yemen, Levant, Mesopotamia and Eastern Arabia? I mean Najd is in the center of those neighboring regions.

Najdi is "relatively" isolated IMHO. at least when compared with other regions. Yeah a lot of groups migrated from and to Najd, but at in the recent history (1800's-now) it had been relatively protected from Ottoman, Egyptian, British, and French influences due to it's unforgiving nature and lack of resources. .

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

Here is some of them harassing a British guy with his Saudi wife (they were checking out from the family section cashier), where they claimed to be the "Police" and told him to shut up and stop arguing:

And here they are chasing him off to his car and jumping on him like monkeys, because their ego got smashed after the British guy told them off and proved he did nothing wrong (Notice the wife defending her husband):

here is a guy ruining the government sponsored event of "junadria," because they were holding a musical event. (PS what I hate most about this incident in particular is their hypocrisy, They always claimed that "protesting" or giving advice to the government and rulers should be in secrecy and in private circles and that it's "haram" to show any kind of descent to the government in public. But, as you can see here, They have no problem embarrassing government officials and police when it doesn't suit their own narrow agendas, and doesn't benefit them.

​

Those are just few examples, and I don't wanna stir the pot.

​

I don't think I'm fit to give any opinion on him, to each his own and everyone should follow their own heart.

​

I love religion, but such young hatchlings should NOT have any kind of power or right to lecture well educated people who are holders of college degrees and professionals in all fields about ANYTHING in life just because of how they look or how pious they think they are.

Religion is NOT exclusive to anyone, and no one should have a monopoly on it.

Band of rats.

I hate you !!! If it was me who led the country. I execute you all (Mens and womens). You and all those who are like you, even if tomorrow we discover that you are 40 % of the country's population to KSA.


....

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Band of rats.

I hate you !!! If it was me who led the country. I execute you all (Mens and womens). You and all those who are like you, even if tomorrow we discover that you are 40 % of the country's population to KSA.


....

They are indeed idiots but they are a small minority and let them bark. If they step out of line then throw them down the Sarawat mountain range in Hijaz or force them to do forced labor in the Rub' al-Khali desert in the middle of summer.

No women behave like this and besides we cannot hurt women. At most give them a squeeze.

Just allow women to beat them if they cross the line.

If you meant us Muslims or conservatives I cannot agree with you and hope you reconsider.

Good to see you back my brother.

Najdi is "relatively" isolated IMHO. at least when compared with other regions. Yeah a lot of groups migrated from and to Najd, but at in the recent history (1800's-now) it had been relatively protected from Ottoman, Egyptian, British, and French influences due to it's unforgiving nature and lack of resources. .

True. This has also created a unique environment and a special self-perception IMO. Najd also remains one of the few places on the planet that has always been ruled and shaped by locals entirely. It's hard for me to even think about any similar example. In fact I struggle to do that despite in all humbleness having an above average historical knowledge.