Saudisation of Pakisan

[somebozo]

Out of 2,139 attacks in Europe from '07 to '10 only 10 were committed by Muslims; yup I'm sure the Neo-Nazis, the Separatists & Other extremists are very much dwarfed by Islamic Extremism & disproportionately so !

List of Terrorist Attacks in Pakistan.


In 2006, 657 terrorist attacks
In 2007, 1,503 terrorist attacks
In 2008, 2,148 terrorist attacks
In 2009, 2,586 terrorist attacks

In 2010, terrorist attacks staged in Pakistan have killed over 35,000 people, 5,000 of which are law enforcement personnel, and caused material damage to the Pakistani economy totaling US$67 billion by the IMF and the World Bank.

100% conducted by Muslims against Muslims! So any comparison with Europe or USA is flawed to the core.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Point in case:
The Hindu scriptures were stipulated to be read and understood ONLY by the high caste Brahmins. Others were barred from doing so. ( By promise, Hindus can not be judged until God had sent a prophet to them)

@salman108 ;
Hey CHARLIE; do not try speak about something that you know nothing about!

There is NO such stipulation anywhere in an Hindu Scripture. First of all there is no Hindu Scripture as such because it is not a "religion of a book/s". The philosphy of Hindu living is not contained within some pages of some book. While there are many books that contain INTERPRETATIONS of that philosophy. There is no bar on anybody reading any book if one is sufficiently educated enough (or literate enough) to do so. And there is not even any STANDARD LANGUAGE in which all the books have been written in. Nor were they written at one time or period in history. Some of them pre-date known books in other Faiths. Each person/s who wrote or compiled the books did it in either the lingua franca of that time or whichever language that the writer/s//compiler/s were comfortable/eloquent in. Most of all there is not even any injunction (god/man made) to even read those book/s. As a matter of fact; a Hindu can go through life without memorising/reciting parts of books.
So please refrain from spinning out some myths.

All bars etc in Religions are created as social aberrations/abominations in order to perpetuate power. Remember in History, that Religion has not only been a medium of spiritual salvation but also a means to wield temporal power; an issue that has plagued every religion.

As I said in an earlier post; Religion encompasses basically two components:
PRINCIPLES- which are eternal and unchanging.
PRACTICES- which are always evolving.

It is the second component; that has been periodically misused in every Religion, simply to perpetuate Temporal Power. The first component is beyond Tampering with.

The SUFIS; if anybody has not yet noticed, dealt with the first component (PRINCIPLES) extensively. It suffuses every teaching or saying of theirs.
When they at all spoke about the second component; it was simply to remind us that the second component (PRACTICES) was simply transient or it was meaningless or that it was contaminated as the cases may be.
That was and is the reason for the universal appeal of the SUFIS to this time.

Finally, there is no place for any Prophets in the Hindu Philosophy of Life. And there is no DAY OF JUDGEMENT. For Hindu way of life, every Day can be considered to be Judgement Day. He has to strive to develop himself in the hope of being able to assess himself, not judge either himself or any other. So the Hindus are not waiting for anyone; A Superhuman Creature or otherwise. Sent by either God or by Martians! Because Hinduism did not come from the Skies or some Other World.
Hindus do not need to be or want to be judged by anybody else.

Hope you are at least a little more educated than before, now.

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong, yar but did it not all started the same way in our part of the world? did it not started with the motive to implement Sharia and teachings of Islam in Afghanistan and Pakistan? even slogan of few extremists in this country is same to implement Sharia Law, Check page 1 - sharia bill by NS in 98

You tell me how did the educated guys ended up blowing themselves on 7/7 , I am not bothered what these studies and researches done by these Professors while sitting in there offices say, I am telling you what I have observed on the streets

Yes well we all have anecdotal evidence do we not, on my part I find it hard to believe in the notion of a 'Saudisation' of Pakistan; I might even find it comic knowing that we've extremism & we've got some seriously nasty characters here but I live here & I've seen the contempt that even the Wahabis of Pakistan have for Saudi Arabia & hows its run ! But khair forget about that...thats another discussion altogether.

Dude, these studies quantify those aspersions & they've determined them to be unsubstantiated ! What do you want me to say ? There is a problem ? Of course there is - But you've got to understand that you've got millions of European Muslims who are happy with the way things & then there are a few thousand of them who aren't ! For godsake if anything Separatism, Rightist, Leftist & Neo-Nazism appears to pose a greater threat than Militant Islam per se.

 

[Sinnerman108]

@Oscar

What is wrong with you ? Tired?

Maybe the state of our religion today is because we engulfed it in a foreign language and allowed only the natives of that language to deal with it.

By not accepting the language (arabic); we allowed the Arabs to mould it the way they wanted.

thus the previous reference to Hindu scriptures & Brahmins, for it is a similar lesson in history.

My argument is, that since we are not translating 5 x Prayer, nor are we translating the Azan;
it makes more sense to have accepted the language.

Because we don't accept the language (arabic) we allowed Mullahs to preach us whatever they thought was right in their own skewed logic.

WE could have done better .....

 

[Armstrong]

List of Terrorist Attacks in Pakistan.


In 2006, 657 terrorist attacks
In 2007, 1,503 terrorist attacks
In 2008, 2,148 terrorist attacks
In 2009, 2,586 terrorist attacks

In 2010, terrorist attacks staged in Pakistan have killed over 35,000 people, 5,000 of which are law enforcement personnel, and caused material damage to the Pakistani economy totaling US$67 billion by the IMF and the World Bank.

100% conducted by Muslims against Muslims! So any comparison with Europe or USA is flawed to the core.

Well not exactly 100% but I do get your point; however pray tell me what does that have to do with growing Islamic Extremism in Europe by educated European Muslims, as was being discussed between myself & the original poster ?

 

[liontk]

Halal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh i see what you were referring to as far as the slaughter method for consuming meat but I do not find any verses that object to our method of stunning the animal as long as its not the flesh of swine.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar

What is wrong with you ? Tired?



By not accepting the language (arabic); we allowed the Arabs to mould it the way they wanted.

thus the previous reference to Hindu scriptures & Brahmins, for it is a similar lesson in history.

My argument is, that since we are not translating 5 x Prayer, nor are we translating the Azan;
it makes more sense to have accepted the language.

Because we don't accept the language (arabic) we allowed Mullahs to preach us whatever they thought was right in their own skewed logic.

WE could have done better .....

Exam prep on..

And I agree..

 

[muse]

Agreed.. but there is problem.. and that is not whether they will perceive it as an attack on Islam. but whether they can coerce society through either fear or lack of knowledge of the attack on Islam.
A louder more vociferous view has a higher chance of success than anything else.. Hitler is proof of that.

Are we sitting with bangles on our hands - is it that deep down, you don't think that "we" are really Muslims, that deep down you doubt whether we have the kinds of values that win over the values of the extremists?? We are louder, we have everything we need to set these radicals straight, not just the state but every kind of international support - do you imagine our Ally China likes what it is seeing from us? Do you imagine the Indian is thinking, "hey we can do business with these guys" Or the Russian or the European??

Our inaction has come to a stage that it is not just those who would rather that we come to some harm, but friend and foe, are convinced that we will not be able to exhibit the will to prevail over this adversary.

 

[Sinnerman108]

@Capt.Popeye

Pardon my ignorance

The philosphy of Hindu living is not contained within some pages of some book. While there are many books that contain INTERPRETATIONS of that philosophy. There is no bar on anybody reading any book if one is sufficiently educated enough (or literate enough) to do so.

See the problem ?

anyway, please ignore my comments, I apologize if I was wrong.

my understanding is based on my belief only.

 

[liontk]

Halal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh i see what you were referring to as far as the slaughter method for consuming meat but I do not find any verses that object to our method of stunning the animal as long as its not the flesh of swine. Though i did find some scientific journals that assert that cutting the animal at jagular vein does not increases the PH of the animal to 7.0 as glycogen content increases and make the meat less juicier unlike the conventional method though I have to further read up on it. What is your opinion with regards to this issue...

 

[Sinnerman108]

Are we sitting with bangles on our hands - is it that deep down, you don't think that "we" are really Muslims, that deep down you doubt whether we have the kinds of values that win over the values of the extremists?? We are louder, we have everything we need to set these radicals straight, not just the state but every kind of international support - do you imagine our Ally China likes what it is seeing from us? Do you imagine the Indian is thinking, "hey we can do business with these guys" Or the Russian or the European??

Our inaction has come to a stage that it is not just those who would rather that we come to some harm, but friend and foe, are convinced that we will not be able to exhibit the will to prevail over this adversary.

too many question ...

suggest reason to WHY we are behaving the way we are.

I am trying to understand this for the last 3 pages.

 

[Amaa'n]

Yes well we all have anecdotal evidence do we not, on my part I find it hard to believe in the notion of a 'Saudisation' of Pakistan; I might even find it comic knowing that we've extremism & we've got some seriously nasty characters here but I live here & I've seen the contempt that even the Wahabis of Pakistan have for Saudi Arabia & hows its run ! But khair forget about that...thats another discussion altogether.

Dude, these studies quantify those aspersions & they've determined them to be unsubstantiated ! What do you want me to say ? There is a problem ? Of course there is - But you've got to understand that you've got millions of European Muslims who are happy with the way things & then there are a few thousand of them who aren't ! For godsake if anything Separatism, Rightist, Leftist & Neo-Nazism appears to pose a greater threat than Militant Islam per se.

yar you took my point in a wrong direction, i think it was mistake at my end for not explaining it properly......I was talking about radicalism, extremism of islam in Europe just to make my point and give you an example that good governac and regulative authority cannot on its own stop people from getting radicalised and extremist. It is due to the fact that what they are being preached, I have been there and seen that. Same thing is being done in Pakistan, and it is one of the root causes. if we want solution we need to cut on this

 

[SQ8]

Are we sitting with bangles on our hands - is it that deep down, you don't think that "we" are really Muslims, that deep down you doubt whether we have the kinds of values that win over the values of the extremists?? We are louder, we have everything we need to set these radicals straight, not just the state but every kind of international support - do you imagine our Ally China likes what it is seeing from us? Do you imagine the Indian is thinking, "hey we can do business with these guys" Or the Russian or the European??

Our inaction has come to a stage that it is not just those who would rather that we come to some harm, but friend and foe, are convinced that we will not be able to exhibit the will to prevail over this adversary.

The question is not of bangles or perseverance.. But rather ensuring that under all conditions those values win over.
At this point.. NO .. we do NOT have those values, nor the knowledge or otherwise to take the extremist on toe to toe in his copy paste agenda. At least not me, you are welcome to try.
Until I have enough grasp that I leave no gap within my argument..I see no reason to let an extremist take any victory.
Until I am certain I can leave him exasperated and humiliated and no more words left.. I do not think being ready is there.

 

[Developereo]

yet we have to be worried about whether or not the extremist will think we are attacking Islam??

That's not what I said. I said if the general population believe that we are attacking Islam -- and the extremists will push that perception -- then it will backfire on us.

 

[muse]

too many question ...

suggest reason to WHY we are behaving the way we are. I am trying to understand this for the last 3 pages.

We are persuaded that what started out as an expediency has for some time become a serious problem - the nature of this problem is that out society is being gutted from the inside by persons who have chosen to take arms against against the state and society to destroy it. Their vehicle is an ideology that makes a mockery of Islam, it perverts Islam and yet many are persuaded that it is the "true"face of Islam.

We are arguing whether they are redeemable or not, some of us wish to go soft and slow with them, others (myself included) argue that it is because we have been soft and slow with them that we are in the situation we are in today.

In this culture war, there are several important questions, What is Pakistan, What is Islam and What does it mean to be Muslim - either those who seek to destroy us are Muslims and the true face of Islam or we are - there is no middle way, either Pakistan will live or it will not.