Saudi Arabia wants to buy 600-800 Leopard tanks from Germany

[Bubblegum Crisis]

The manufacturing process of “Altay Tank” will be almost similar to this.

Modernization M1 Abrams:

And when “Altay Tank” will be finally completed, KSA no doubt will be customer and subsequently just after industrial partner.

 

[Mosamania]

After 20 page of reading, my conclusion is I have no ******* clue about military stuff.
@ Pakistani & Turki brothers
I have forwarded your military offers to king Abdullah my self and he told me that he will personally look into them but he can't make any promises! You offers however are appreciated..

I saw him today at the funeral in my city had a good chat with him about the economy but I totally forgot to bring up the tanks subject ( really I also saw the king of Spain and GCC leaders I was with the welcoming party)

Yeah my Ego meter is on maximum right now.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Very nice tank, congrat for Saudi.

 

[Tihamah]

leopard 2A7+ is the best tank in the world with out any doubt (for those who knows any thing about tanks not internet experts who read numbers and evaluate weapons from arm chairs), its the only tank superior to Abrams, i'm glad we got it fully upgraded from the germans as well, since the US rarely sell us a fully upgraded weapon.

i'm happy my goverment finally realized the importance of aqcurining the leopards, because in 1988 germany refused to sell them to Saudi Arabia under the pressure from the US and zionist lobby in germany (Leopard was number one in trials that took place in sharorah in 1988 with challnger, Abrams, Leclerc and brazilian tank) , but now with germany been more free from the US grip and europe going to bankruptcy they will sell us every thing we want literally, we should use this chance now! to aqcuire more advanced weapons with transfer of technology.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

leopard 2A7+ is the best tank in the world with out any doubt (for those who knows any thing about tanks not internet experts who read numbers and evaluate weapons from arm chairs), its the only tank superior to Abrams, i'm glad we got it fully upgraded from the germans as well, since the US rarely sell us a fully upgraded weapon.

...

Now, there will no more problems with best updating tank of future model “Leopard 2 Tank” in the Army of Saudi Arabia. Not need help (Desire) from Germany in the futur.

The Turkey has already done all the best updates on the “Leopard 2A4 Tank” to new standard “Leopard 2NG” (Next Generation). They have all the necessary expertise and will continue without difficulties to make those new updates.

I repeat it again in situation some people have not properly understood.

The future “Altay Tank” has for origin two great brothers. Simultaneously, the Leopard 2 Tank (Germany) and the K-2 Black Panther Tank (South Korea).

The K-2 Black Panther Tank of South Korea - the main model of Altay Tank (South Korea TOT) - has been fully designed and developed under the leadership of Germany by a total transfer of technology (Leopard 2 Tank TOT). So Altay Tank will be their equal fully.

But, the Saudi Arabia buys a large number of “Leopard 2 Tank” now because it needs immediately again tank for ensure its security pending the “Altay Tank” will be finally completed.

But it's a certainty. The “Leopard 2 Tank” was selected by Saudi Arabia for in the future directly interact with the technological industrial defense of its ally Turkey who masters already this technology fully.


More informations see links:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ee-f-15s-helicopters-more-11.html#post2917685

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ee-f-15s-helicopters-more-11.html#post2917691

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ee-f-15s-helicopters-more-11.html#post2920359

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/118240-leopard-2a7-saudi-arabia-3.html#post2997203

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/118240-leopard-2a7-saudi-arabia-3.html#post2997223

http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/173846-altay-savunma-ve-havac-l-k-dergisi.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/173846-altay-savunma-ve-havac-l-k-dergisi-2.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/173846-altay-savunma-ve-havac-l-k-dergisi-3.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/157113-made-turkey-15.html#post3034147

 

[Armstrong]

@ Bubblegum Crisis : Mate, I'd have to check with Cabattli and other Turks but I'm not sure that the Altay development was ever instigated as a TOT from South Korea ! I was under the impression that the South Koreans did have some kind of input into the Altay program but nothing to the extent to suggest that the Altays are heavily derived from the K-2 let alone being a licensed production of it, as the TOT part implied. Or am I reading your post incorrectly ?

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

@ Bubblegum Crisis : Mate, I'd have to check with Cabattli and other Turks but I'm not sure that the Altay development was ever instigated as a TOT from South Korea ! I was under the impression that the South Koreans did have some kind of input into the Altay program but nothing to the extent to suggest that the Altays are heavily derived from the K-2 let alone being a licensed production of it, as the TOT part implied. Or am I reading your post incorrectly ?

Quote :

Altay Main Battle Tank, Turkey



army-technology.com

Altay is the third generation+ main battle tank (MBT) of the Republic of Turkey and is being indigenously developed under the Milli Tank Üretim Projesi ALTAY (MITÜP ALTAY) programme (Altay National Tank Project). Altay will be the first national MBT developed for the Turkish Land Forces Command (TLFC).

The Turkish National Main Battle Tank Project began in 2005. In September 2010 the conceptual design phase of Altay was completed. The tank is currently in the detailed design phase which is planned to take about 30 months. The first prototype is expected to be ready by 2015.

Turkey intends to build 250 MITÜP Altay MBTs initially, and ultimately produce 1,000 new tanks in four separate lots of 250 units. Altay will incorporate the most modern features of a tank. The Turkish MBT will have a crew of four – driver, gunner, loader and the commander.

Altay main battle tank development

The Undersecreteriat for Defense Industries (SSM) embarked on the National Tank project to improve the technical capabilities of Turkish defence and to increase the domestic contribution towards national defence.

The tank is named after the Army General Fahrettin Altay, who commanded the V Cavalry Corps during the Turkish War of Independence. Development of the Altay tank will be completed in three phases.

The Defence Industrial Executive Committee (SSIK), the Turkey's defence industrial procurement decision-making body, selected the contractor Otokar in March 2007, through a competition.

The $500m contract includes design, development and integration of Altay and qualification of the tank through prototypes and testing.

Work on the Altay project began in August 2008 at the Otokar factory and is projected for completion in 2016. Otokar will develop four prototypes for testing. Altay will use the technology systems developed for the South Korean K2 MBT by Hyundai Rotem. Serial production will begin after successful testing of the prototypes. Turkey will own the design and intellectual property rights.

Altay main battle tank design and features

A 3D image of Altay was revealed to the public in August 2010.

The tank will have a conventional layout. The power pack will be in the rear, driver seating in the front and fighting compartment in the middle. The loader will be on the left side of the turret, while the commander will sit on the right side of the turret. The gunner will sit on the same side as the commander but in a more forward and lower position.

Altay will have the stronger chassis characteristics of the K2 Black Panther MBT. It will have a re-designed Turkish turret and heavier armour than the K2. It will also have seven tracked wheels and a longer hull. A decision on the suspension system and other systems has yet to be finalised.

Fire control

The tank will use an advanced computerised Volkan-III modular (or National Cannon Fire Control System For Naval Platforms (TAKS)) fire-control system (FCS). It is being developed by Aselsan, which has partnered with STM, the software division of SSM, for developing the command, control and information systems.

Armament

Altay will be equipped with a 120mm L/55 smoothbore gun. It will be fitted with a muzzle reference system, a thermal sleeve and fume extractor. The ammunition will be stowed in the turret bustle with blow out panels on the roof. The tank will also have a 7.62mm machine gun mounted in coaxial to the right of the main armament. A 12.7mm heavy machine gun will be mounted on the right of the turret for commander operation.

Self-protection

The front side of the tank will have special modular reactive composite armour protection. The tank will be designed to resist chemical, biological and radiological (CBR) attacks.

Both the gunner and the commander will be provided with stabilised day/thermal sights. They are expected to be incorporated with a laser range-finder having hunter-killer capability.

Propulsion

The first two batches of Altay tanks will be powered by MTU Friedrichshafen 1,500hp (1,100kW) diesel engines. The engine will be coupled to a Renk transmission. An indigenous 1,800hp (1,300kW) engine is currently under development in Turkey and will be used in the last two batches of the tank. The tank will have a maximum speed of 70km/h and manoeuvrability at depths of 4.1m in water.

Contractors

Koç Group company Otokar is the main contractor for the Altay MBT development programme. The technology systems transfer licensing will be provided by Hyundai Rotem, which will also offer technical support and assistance in the tank development.

Aselsan will be responsible for the sub-systems and fire control system. The state-owned ammunition producer Makine ve Kimya Endustrisi Kurumu (MKE) will produce the main gun system, while Roketsan will develop and produce the armour package. The subcontractors will be responsible for integration of the respective equipment in the tank in cooperation with Otokar.


See link Article:

Altay Main Battle Tank - Army Technology







Hyundai Rotem “K2 Black Panther Tank”

See link PDF :

http://www.rotem.co.kr/Eng/Common/data/k2_tramcar.pdf


continuation...


See other link official:

https://www.hyundai-rotem.co.kr/Eng/Business/Machine/Product/k2_tramcar.asp

 

[cabatli_53]

First of all, Altay design has nothing to do with XK-2. Armour blocks will be heavier, wider and turret shape is looking a mixture of Leopard 2A6, Merkava and Leclerc, but never XK-2. Different than XK-2, Driver section is stationed in the middile of chassis having 7 wheels instead 6 XK-2 has. Total combat weight of Altay is way heavier than XK-2. Altay have designed to be operated by 4 crew, While XK-2 has just 3 crew with auto-loader gun system.


About Cooperation with S. Korea, Turkey benefits from the expertise of Hyundai Rotem as designer of XK-2 to design Altay, built own armour blocks. Neither There is a licence agreement made with Korea, nor Turkey made an agreement to improve XK-2 design in accordance with own benefits. Altay is totally a different story in tank development history... There will be sole owner of altay design. It is neither Otokar, nor Aselsan or MKEK. It is SSM (Undersecretariat of Turkish defence industry)...

Altay will be serially produced in here...

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

First of all, Altay design has nothing to do with XK-2. Armour blocks will be heavier, wider and turret shape is looking a mixture of Leopard 2A6, Merkava and Leclerc, but never XK-2. Different than XK-2, Driver section is stationed in the middile of chassis having 7 wheels instead 6 XK-2 has. Total combat weight of Altay is way heavier than XK-2. Altay have designed to be operated by 4 crew, While XK-2 has just 3 crew with auto-loader gun system.


About Cooperation with S. Korea, Turkey benefits from the expertise of Hyundai Rotem as designer of XK-2 to design Altay, built own armour blocks. Neither There is a licence agreement made with Korea, nor Turkey made an agreement to improve XK-2 design in accordance with own benefits. Altay is totally a different story in tank development history... There will be sole owner of altay design. It is neither Otokar, nor Aselsan or MKEK. It is SSM (Undersecretariat of Turkish defence industry)...

Altay will be serially produced in here...

Brother, all this is true.

Turkey slowly but surely, over tens of years, has become masters this technology fully. Essentially by its own hard work.

Turkey has all the capabilities industrial and technological to develop its own tank all alone. But a little help from a country faithful big friend – South Korea – “does no harm to anyone”. On the contrary, it unites advantage.

Long life friendship Turkey-South Korea.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

First of all, Altay design has nothing to do with XK-2. ...Altay have designed to be operated by 4 crew, While XK-2 has just 3 crew with auto-loader gun system.

...

Brother.

Personally I would have preferred for “Altay Tank” – as South Korea - to be operated by 3 crew with “auto-loader gun system”. Faster to hit following. Exhaust less men.

 

[Mosamania]

Brother.

Personally I would have preferred for “Altay Tank” – as South Korea - to be operated by 3 crew with “auto-loader gun system”. Faster to hit following. Exhaust less men.

Actually right now the 4 man crew is preferred again. In Combat a person can load the ammunition faster than the auto-loader. And with the silver bullet gun battles these days this may make the difference between life and death for many.

 

[BordoEnes]

Brother.

Personally I would have preferred for “Altay Tank” – as South Korea - to be operated by 3 crew with “auto-loader gun system”. Faster to hit following. Exhaust less men.

Well auto-loader gun systems are not always a good thing, In many occasions auto-loader gun systems proved to be unreliable and jammed many times. In a war time you will be death in mather of seconds if such a thing happens. 4 Men crew always is more reliable.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

Well auto-loader gun systems are not always a good thing, In many occasions auto-loader gun systems proved to be unreliable and jammed many times. In a war time you will be death in mather of seconds if such a thing happens. 4 Men crew always is more reliable.

I also think. But still, without “auto-loader gun systems”. In very high intense combat, the pace can be very very hard for the men. And this is not good for maintain concentration of the mind and the moral also of the unit.

 

[Mosamania]

I also think. But still, without “auto-loader gun systems”. In high intense combat, the pace can be very very hard for the men.

And that is what training is all about.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

And that is what training is all about.

Of course. But the choice is always difficult. “Auto-loader gun systems” or not “auto-loader gun systems”. Always for the same reasons.

The tank AMX Leclerc (France) has a “auto-loader gun systems”.

But also Tank S.Korea, Japon, Russia and China.

M1 A2 Tank (Abrams) with not “auto-loader gun systems”.

Leopard 2A4. Not “auto-loader gun systems”.