Saudi Arabia Has Devastated Pakistan’s History of Religious Tolerance and Diversity

[Levina]

"Where is the link Levina?

Click the title Mr.Atanz

I had linked the original source to the heading.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You are pretty wrong,

it was not KSA, but General cum President Zia ul Haq. Eventually, he leaded his army on request from Jordanian king, where no other barader mulk dared to send his army

Zia was already in Jordan to train Jordanian military under mandate of the Jordanians.. We didn't send our troops specially for that.


Similarly Pakistan military was stationed in almost all prominent ME countries for establishment of military institutions and training for their forces.


Even today we have number of troops in those countries..


On topic... I can find several flaws in this piece but u don't have much time due to exams.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Click the title Mr.Atanz

I had linked the original source to the heading.

Everything is going, including eyesight ....

 

[Levina]

Everything is going, including eyesight ....

You're a pessimist.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You're a pessimist.

Protective reflex - expect the worse tthat way when worse comes your not disappointed. You need that with Pakistan ....

 

[Levina]

Protective reflex - expect the worse tthat way when worse comes your not disappointed. You need that with Pakistan ....

Let me try one of your lines on you..
Patience....there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Why Pakistan’s future looks bright - The Express Tribune

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Let me try one of your lines on you..
Patience....there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Why Pakistan’s future looks bright - The Express Tribune

I think Pakistan is better ( in some cases far better off ) than most South Asian countries. I love north west of Pakistan ( Gandhara region ) and as a history buff it also happens to be the epicentre of South Asian history.

In fact most of Pakistan was the pivot of South Asian history. You cannot talk about ancient history in this part of the world with bringing up the Pakistan region.It is a great land.I would not exchange this area for any other in all of South Asia including even those golden sandy beaches of Kerala.

However the unbridled salafism and wearing religion on your sleave is too much for me to take. I struggle to cope with hordes of brain dead zombies playing the same broken record player again, again ...

Ps. Humanism, rationality is dead. I have been reading up on Mu`tazila which offers some hope but it died centuries ago ..

Mu`tazila - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Saudi Arabia is the "cancer" of the Islamic world in the same way that the US and UK are the cancer of the Western world. And surprise surprise; they are allies!

 

[Rangila]

https://twitter.com/x/status/613698317558480896

Strange!

 

[Sky lord]

???
I thought the article makes sense and ergo posted it here. Very often I have heard it from Pakistanis that their country was a very open society till some decades back, that is till the Saudi-Pakistan friendship grew deeper.

Not sure I buy this. If Pak was such an open society as the author claims, how come they felt they could not live with Hindus in 1947?

 

[Levina]

However the unbridled salafism and wearing religion on your sleave is too much for me to take. I struggle to cope with hordes of brain dead zombies playing the same broken record player again, again ...

As an outsider I've observed that many Pakistanis suffer from an emotional tantrum on account of real and perceived insult of their belief. They get agitated easily, I wonder if this stems from the fact that Pakistan is a Muslim country while its roots are very secular. I might sound dilettante but is it not possible to model Pakistan on Turkey where so many religions exist in harmony?
To an outsider like me Pakistan seems to be in war with itself.

Thanks for sharing the link Mu`tazila.

I think Pakistan is better ( in some cases far better off ) than most South Asian countries. I love north west of Pakistan ( Gandhara region ) and as a history buff it also happens to be the epicentre of South Asian history.

In fact most of Pakistan was the pivot of South Asian history. You cannot talk about ancient history in this part of the world with bringing up the Pakistan region.It is a great land.I would not exchange this area for any other in all of South Asia including even those golden sandy beaches of Kerala.

Oh!
Let's not make this thread Kerala Vs Pak. You'll be surprised to know that my fav places in India are Rajasthan and North-eastern India, because Rajasthanis and North-easterners are very humble. Let's save the debate on history for some other thread, I'm not in a mood to lock horns right now. Lol

Not sure I buy this. If Pak was such an open society as the author claims, how come they felt they could not live with Hindus in 1947?

Pass!
I will wait for a Pakistani to answer this question.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

As an outsider I've observed that many Pakistanis suffer from an emotional tantrum on account of real and perceived insult of their belief. They get agitated easily, I wonder if this stems from the fact that Pakistan is a Muslim country while its roots are very secular. I might sound dilettante but is it not possible to model Pakistan on Turkey where so many religions exist in harmony?
To an outsider like me Pakistan seems to be in war with itself.

Everything is possible it is about timing. We are nowing paying for the price of failing to construct a solid national identity in the formative years of this country. Things like Objective Resolution introduced within the body of Pakistan mutant Dna which sat there waiting for the opportune time to explode. Now we are enjoying the harvesting those mistakes.

Turkey got it right at the right time. It is not possible now because so many people have caught the disease. There are small minority but people who display the mental disposition to bring such change are always a minority in any society.

PDF is a example. The median age is young, coming from advantaged economic backgrounds compared to the mass of Pakistan and better educated. That is most are modern products but vast majority display closed mindsets. Failed prescriptions ( religion in the public life ) is answered with the same prescription even more robustly ( even more religion in public life ).

Not sure I buy this. If Pak was such an open society as the author claims, how come they felt they could not live with Hindus in 1947?

1947 was about economics. Not being able to live with Hindu in 1947 is like asking why Catholics could not live with Protestants in Ireland ....

That subject is entirely seprate to "open society" that would need another thread. If you want you can open it and I will reply ....

Frankly I might sound tad patronizing but it's also poor education and couple with lack of intellect. When I say poor education I mean real education that opens the mind.

The best example is the favourite presecription for Pakistan's problems is "more Islam" or sorry "true Islam". They can't see what is so obvious. The truth is there is no homogenous "Islam". There is no one prescription.

What we have is dozens of brands all claming to be Islam which equates to dozens of prescriptions. So letting them loose is having dozens of brands all purporting to be true Islam fighting each other and in the process killing each other to get their prescriptions mandated.

We already see what the prescriptions of these brands are. One is busy killing all the Shia, another turned on the Ahmedi, another recently on the Agha Khani followers.

Hell is let loose ......................

 

[Sky lord]

Everything is possible it is about timing. We are nowing paying for the price of failing to construct a solid national identity in the formative years of this country. Things like Objective Resolution introduced within the body of Pakistan mutant Dna which sat there waiting for the opportune time to explode. Now we are enjoying the harvesting those mistakes.

Turkey got it right at the right time. It is not possible now because so many people have caught the disease. There are small minority but people who display the mental disposition to bring such change are always a minority in any society.

PDF is a example. The median age is young, coming from advantaged economic backgrounds compared to the mass of Pakistan and better educated. That is most are modern products but vast majority display closed mindsets. Failed prescriptions ( religion in the public life ) is answered with the same prescription even more robustly ( even more religion in public life ).



1947 was about economics. Not being able to live with Hindu in 1947 is like asking why Catholics could not live with Protestants in Ireland ....

That subject is entirely seprate to "open society" that would need another thread. If you want you can open it and I will reply ....

Frankly I might sound tad patronizing but it's also poor education and couple with lack of intellect. When I say poor education I mean real education that opens the mind.

The best example is the favourite presecription for Pakistan's problems is "more Islam" or sorry "true Islam". They can't see what is so obvious. The truth is there is no homogenous "Islam". There is no one prescription.

What we have is dozens of brands all claming to be Islam which equates to dozens of prescriptions. So letting them loose is having dozens of brands all purporting to be true Islam fighting each other and in the process killing each other to get their prescriptions mandated.

We already see what the prescriptions of these brands are. One is busy killing all the Shia, another turned on the Ahmedi, another recently on the Agha Khani followers.

Hell is let loose ......................

I can't disagree with anything you have said in your post. There are sane voices though, unfortunately, at least on PDF they get themselves banned every other day. there is a process of evolution, South Asia has to pull itself out of the Middle Ages into modernity- the sooner the better for all of us.

@levina - I agree with you on Rajasthan and NE, . My favorite places too. raj. Is magical, every bend in the road opens up a beautiful view, palaces and forts rise out of the dessert in the mist and like you said the people are humble and hospitable and the food is great .....except for the camel milk - yuk!

 

[VCheng]

The best example is the favourite presecription for Pakistan's problems is "more Islam" or sorry "true Islam". They can't see what is so obvious. The truth is there is no homogenous "Islam". There is no one prescription.

Golden words!

The cure for a patient dying of poison is not more poison, or a better and refined poison, but only an antidote.

Many here, some with exalted titles, would vehemently disagree, of course.

 

[Levina]

Everything is possible it is about timing. We are nowing paying for the price of failing to construct a solid national identity in the formative years of this country. Things like Objective Resolution introduced within the body of Pakistan mutant Dna which sat there waiting for the opportune time to explode. Now we are enjoying the harvesting those mistakes.

My assumption is that Jinnah's call for muslims to form a pure land served as an invitation to the zealots. The secular muslims stayed back in India while those who put religion over country had segregated to form Pakistan, albeit I still feel that such people are a minority.

Turkey got it right at the right time.

Turkey was always a secular country isnt it?

It is not possible now because so many people have caught the disease.

You're being a pessimist again.
Its never too late to start again, Pakistan can recover if the populace doesnt loose hope and unites against the fringe elements.

There are small minority but people who display the mental disposition to bring such change are always a minority in any society.

I've always believed that a disturbed neighborhood would effect India's progress, so for my own selfish reasons I want Pakistan to come out of this mess.

PDF is a example. The median age is young, coming from advantaged economic backgrounds compared to the mass of Pakistan and better educated. That is most are modern products but vast majority display closed mindsets. Failed prescriptions ( religion in the public life ) is answered with the same prescription even more robustly ( even more religion in public life ).

Au contraire, I see the youngsters on this forum as more open minded compared to the middle aged men/women on this forum. I must say that members like @faisal6309 @Secur @Arsalan @forcetrip @That Guy have often surprised me with their posts and such members form the majority (the list is very long ), but unfortunately haters always scream the loudest.

1947 was about economics. Not being able to live with Hindu in 1947 is like asking why Catholics could not live with Protestants in Ireland ....

That subject is entirely seprate to "open society" that would need another thread. If you want you can open it and I will reply ....

Is it okay if I open a thread on this topic??? I know i might earn a lot of brick bats for opening such a controversial thread , so I'm requesting you to open a thread on this topic and tag us.

Frankly I might sound tad patronizing but it's also poor education and couple with lack of intellect. When I say poor education I mean real education that opens the mind.

Poor education and lack of intellect go hand in hand...isnt it?
Just like you I also believe good education can negate religious extremism and a lot of other problems, the same applies to my country too. Lol

The best example is the favourite presecription for Pakistan's problems is "more Islam" or sorry "true Islam". They can't see what is so obvious. The truth is there is no homogenous "Islam". There is no one prescription.

You've hit the nail on the head!

What we have is dozens of brands all claming to be Islam which equates to dozens of prescriptions. So letting them loose is having dozens of brands all purporting to be true Islam fighting each other and in the process killing each other to get their prescriptions mandated.
We already see what the prescriptions of these brands are. One is busy killing all the Shia, another turned on the Ahmedi, another recently on the Agha Khani followers.
Hell is let loose ......................

Brusque but true.

@levina - I agree with you on Rajasthan and NE, . My favorite places too. raj. Is magical, every bend in the road opens up a beautiful view, palaces and forts rise out of the dessert in the mist and like you said the people are humble and hospitable and the food is great .....except for the camel milk - yuk!

More than the serene places I like the ppl of Rajasthan and North-east.

Many here, some with exalted titles, would vehemently disagree, of course.

Ooops!
Not fair!!!