Saudi Arabia Building a City Dedicated to Military Industry

[ResurgentIran]

Ok, but what would you do in a unstable region like Middle East if one of your rivals talked about developing a nuclear weapon and made indirect threats? Especially if you had the money?

The thing is that we Muslims don't have the abilities to produce better weapons than those the USA is offering. Nobody has. Israel themselves are relying on American weapons.

The solution is education and more education and wise investments. In that way the region will ultimately become self-sufficient. But since the Middle East is the most rich region in terms of natural resources and have a enormous strategic position and religious influence then many outsiders are doing everything to create divisions and trouble and the various regimes live on those divisions.

Small steps are always better than none.

Anyway maybe our great-grandchildren will live in better societies that are more self-sufficient. It might also become worse! Nobody but Allah (swt) can predict the future.

Here's the thing. Iran can not possibly develop a nuclear weapon without it being detected. Because it is constantly monitored by the IAEA, never mind the intelligence agencies. Nuclear weapons is not, and will not ever be in Iran's security doctrine. Regardless of what kind of government is in charge.

However Im not gonna lie and sugarcoat it. I think they are going for a capability to deter USA/Israel. Which is also consistent with its aerospace/ballistic missile program I guess. But would not go to the final step and enrich uranium. Its not even possible without detection anyhow...
Iran has even offered GCC to exchange acamedic and help them build up their nuclear infrastructure and share their experiences.

Look, IRI is not perfect at all and I have many personal objections with it. Like corruption, social inequalities among other things.
I think with time, it will reform. Not necessarily a new revolution, but gradual reform. But only time will tell.

But I dont think the regime is irrational either. Even the top US general Martin Dempsey says so. Whatever we might think of the Iran regime, at the end of the day its a rational player.
Its not in its interest to threaten its neighbours. It has no invasion capability, nor has it expressed intention of invading any of its neighbours. One exception is that Iran has previously laid claims on Bahrain, and Im not happy with that. Bahrain is sovereign country and should remain so. So Im not staunch supporter of the government and its foreign policies, but nor do I agree with the picture some have painted of it.

Lets hope for the best and a more stabilized region, so its potential can be fully realized.

 

[al-Hasani]

Here's the thing. Iran can not possibly develop a nuclear weapon without it being detected. Because it is constantly monitored by the IAEA, never mind the intelligence agencies. Nuclear weapons is not, and will not ever be in Iran's security doctrine. Regardless of what kind of government is in charge.

However Im not gonna lie and sugarcoat it. I think they are going for a capability to deter USA/Israel. Which is also consistent with its aerospace/ballistic missile program I guess. But would not go to the final step and enrich uranium. Its not even possible without detection anyhow...
Iran has even offered GCC to exchange acamedic and help them build up their nuclear infrastructure and share their experiences.

Look, IRI is not perfect at all and I have many personal objections with it. Like corruption, social inequalities among other things.
I think with time, it will reform. Not necessarily a new revolution, but gradual reform. But only time will tell.

But I dont think the regime is irrational either. Even the top US general Martin Dempsey says so. Whatever we might think of the Iran regime, at the end of the day its a rational player.
Its not in its interest to threaten its neighbours. It has no invasion capability, nor has it expressed intention of invading any of its neighbours. One exception is that Iran has previously laid claims on Bahrain, and Im not happy with that. Bahrain is sovereign country and should remain so. So Im not staunch supporter of the government and its foreign policies, but nor do I agree with the picture some have painted of it.

Lets hope for the best and a more stabilized region.

I agree with all what you wrote. I also wished that more Muslim nations got nuclear weapons. Not because I want a nuclear world (quite frankly I am against it) but since it is already there and it's the best way of securing your independence and a great tool of power then it might come handsome. I do agree that it is hypocritical of the West to say that country X or Y cannot have nuclear weapons when they have it themselves. They were against Pakistan getting one in the first place as well.

What I am afraid of is whether our region, under the current rulers, and tensions, be it political, sectarian, extremists etc. can handle such things. Pakistan is also extremely unstable and it could turn ugly. The problem is, do we want a military state like Pakistan where the military will always have the power?
Why is that? Simply because somebody has to control the nuclear bomb. I am not sure about that. Sure the militaries have great power anyway but I think you know what I mean.

Nuclear power as a energy source would be much better.

Regarding cooperation then I think that nobody of the two parts trust each other, I am afraid. But KSA have already close nuclear cooperation with Pakistan, China, France and to a lesser extent USA. KSA financed and helped Pakistan achieve nuclear weapons in the first place.

Did not know about the claims of Bahrain. Yes, that's quite a problem. Just like Saddam once claimed Khuzestan (Arabistan). The borders are as they are and today, in 2013, it is really hard to change them without conflict erupting. Especially in the Middle East.

Paranoia is a frequent disease in the Middle East. Some of it is rational some not. What I hope is more stability and better cooperation. Most importantly education and more education. It's the only way forward even though we have been blessed with natural resources in abundance.

 

[ResurgentIran]

I agree with all what you wrote. I also wished that more Muslim nations got nuclear weapons. Not because I want a nuclear world (quite frankly I am against it) but since it is already there and it's the best way of securing your independence and a great tool of power then it might come handsome.

What I am afraid of is whether our region, under the current rulers, and tensions, be it political, sectarian, extremists etc. can handle such things. Pakistan is also extremely unstable and it could turn ugly. The problem is, do we want a military state like Pakistan where the military will always have the power?
Why is that? Simply because somebody has to control the nuclear bomb. I am not sure about that. Sure the militaries have great power anyway but I think you know what I mean.

Nuclear power as a energy source would be much better.

Regarding cooperation then I think that nobody of the two parts trust each other, I am afraid. But KSA have already close nuclear cooperation with Pakistan, China, France and to a lesser extent USA. KSA financed and helped Pakistan achieve nuclear weapons in the first place.

Did not know about the claims of Bahrain. Yes, that's quite a problem. Just like Saddam once claimed Khuzestan (Arabistan). The borders are as they are and today, in 2013, it is really hard to change them without conflict erupting. Especially in the Middle East.

Paranoia is a frequent disease in the Middle East. Some of it is rational some not. What I hope is more stability and better cooperation. Most importantly education and more education. It's the only way forward even though we have been blessed with natural resources in abundance.

I pretty much agree with you. Except I dont want nuclear weapons in the region, for any country. Not Iran either. I think for the purpose of stability, its best to remain a signatory to the non proliferation treaty and dont develop such weapons.
Because you never know when things can heat up for any reason (whether its manipulation from outside or someone makes a mistake), it is better that all of us stay behind the treshold.

I dont know if Iran claims Bahrain anymore, just that it did at some point in time. Id have to look into it again. But regardless, Bahrain is a sovereign state and I would strongly be against any Iranian move to claim it.

I agree that there is mistrust on both sides. Right now there is pretty much zero trade between Iran and GCC. I think that is really dumb and kinda shameful really.
I hope in the future the mistrust goes away and we build better relations and better trade and economic relations.
To be honest, I dont think this mistrust and bridge can be done without some kind of normalization between Iran and the US. Then the rest will follow. Its such a complicated situation/equation right now. :/

 

[Rocky rock]

So Civilians will be able to enter this city or will be just under Army control kinda thing?

 

[BATMAN]

Saudi Arabia is leading the Islamic world with example on many accounts.

May Allah help Saudi Arabia in its struggle, I congratulate KSA and its managers on this occasion and hope to see action on project soon.

Last but not least... ignore the least, ignore the smoking trolls.

 

[SOHEIL]

Yes they will because they have almost everything, abundant natural resources, vast fertile lands, water, strategic location, population, but they lack logic though, obviously.

ha ha ha !!! we will see man

 

[Moander]

Saudi Arabia Building an City Dedicated to Military Industry

This year Saudi Arabia is planning to establish an entire city dedicated only to military industry in Al-Kharj.

Engineer Saleh Al-Easheed head of MODON stressed the importance of the project stressing the sharp rise in military industry in KSA and the many plants and factory plans that have been submitted to MODON regarding it.

The city will be managed jointly by The Ministry of Defense and MODON, The city will also include a training and vocational center as well as colleges in Engineering and computer sciences.

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SA should have done it years ago. Its unfortunate, countries with less wealth have tremendous success in military research where SA remain importer. Better late than never, good luck .

 

[al-Hasani]

SA should have done it years ago. Its unfortunate, countries with less wealth have tremendous success in military research where SA remain importer. Better late than never, good luck .

Who are those countries, just out of interest? Also this goes for all Muslim countries and non-Western countries aside from China, India and Russia who have the size and population to compete for real. But even their military equipment is not comparable to the American in terms of quality and technology.

It will be a long process for the Muslim world to even reach those heights but it is necessary to truly become self-sufficient.

It's always easy to conclude something in hindsight btw. But I agree much more should have been done before all over the Muslim world but there are more interests in the Middle East and outside powers who do their outmost to halt any real progress. They are not dumb. One less potential competitor is better than "allowing" a competitor to be created.

 

[Moander]

Who are those countries, just out of interest? Also this goes for all Muslim countries and non-Western countries aside from China, India and Russia who have the size and population to compete for real. But even their military equipment is not comparable to the American in terms of quality and technology.

It will be a long process for the Muslim world to even reach those heights but it is necessary to truly become self-sufficient.

It's always easy to conclude something in hindsight btw. But I agree much more should have been done before all over the Muslim world but there are more interests in the Middle East and outside powers who do their outmost to halt any real progress. They are not dumb. One less potential competitor is better than "allowing" a competitor to be created.

Pakistan, Iran, North Korea, India, Turkey etc. I was talking about investment in military research & technology and developing weapon industry. It take huge amount of investment which SA can easily afford. If SA started military industry two decades ago, you could have achieve high quality military technology by now.

 

[al-Hasani]

Pakistan, Iran, North Korea, India, Turkey etc. I was talking about investment in military research & technology and developing weapon industry. It take huge amount of investment which SA can easily afford. If SA started military industry two decades ago, you could have achieve high quality military technology by now.

None of them are even close to manufacturing weapons of the quality the Americans possess and sell. Ironically Pakistan and Turkey (NATO member) are importing Western weapons heavily and rely upon them.

North Korea? Really? Is that an example to follow now? You do know at which cost their military "achievements" have come, right? Iran? Don't let me even get started.

Not sure about that. But I get your point. It was done to late in hindsight. But I am not sure that USA would allow that to happen 2 decades ago. It is in their interest to have rich countries like KSA import their weapons since they are a great income.

Just like KSA has a interest in good ties to USA since the oil and gas export can reach a huge market that is eager to import the goods sold by KSA.

 

[Moander]

None of them are even close to manufacturing weapons of the quality the Americans possess and sell. Ironically Pakistan and Turkey (NATO member) are importing Western weapons heavily and rely upon them.

North Korea? Really? Is that an example to follow now? You do know at which cost their military "achievements" have come, right? Iran? Don't let me even get started.

Not sure about that. But I get your point. It was done to late in hindsight. But I am not sure that USA would allow that to happen 2 decades ago. It is in their interest to have rich countries like KSA import their weapons since they are a great income.

Just like KSA has a interest in good ties to USA since the oil and gas export can reach a huge market that is eager to import the goods sold by KSA.

But they are trying with there limited resource for long time which SA could have easily done.

 

[al-Hasani]

But they are trying with there limited resource for long time which SA could have easily done.

Sure, which I already admitted. But the problem is that we don't know whether KSA would have been allowed to start a production for real. 20 years ago KSA was much more reliant on USA than today where KSA is the most powerful economy in the Middle East and Muslim world and have a significant military and most importantly valuable experience.

I can guarantee that the Americans would have done everything in their power to make it clear for the regime, that it is better to import the best weapons in return of American oil and gas imports than starting a costly and slow process of manufacturing weapons.

I mean, is it a coincidence that only the main world powers (Russia, India, China) have experienced no real American meddling. Everywhere else the Americans have tried to keep the countries down.

They even did everything in their power to stop Pakistan from getting the nuclear bomb. Is that how supposed allies should behave?

USA's sole interest in the Muslim world is due to the natural riches. Otherwise they would not care or see us as competitors. That's how politics work.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

What happened to this project?

 

[omega supremme]

@al-Hasani
This military city that you people are going to make will you make indigenous equipment or you will take licence from other countries to manufacture their equipment something like you people are going to make K2 tank

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

What happened to this project?

Quote 1 :

Top military role for Sabic chief

Sean Cronin
February 14, 2015

The Saudi engineer who helped to turn Sabic into one of the world’s biggest industrial groups is taking the helm of the kingdom’s military industries corporation.

New Saudi King Salman appointed the Sabic chief executive Mohamed Al Mady to the role, according to a royal decree published on the state news agency SPA yesterday.

The statement said he would become the chairman of the General Organization for Military Industries with immediate effect.

It did not say if Mr Al Mady would be leaving his post at Saudi Basic Industries Corporation.

Mr Al Mady made headlines in 2013, when he said that compulsory military service could help to solve the Arab youth unemployment crisis.

The move would help to change the mindset of young people unwilling to consider certain jobs, he told a World Economic Forum meeting in Jordan in 2013.

“The problem is you have to tackle the cultural dimension of the labour force. People don’t accept jobs. They want the jobs that will give them higher money and stability. That’s not going to happen.

“They have to accept certain job categories that fit their situation,” he told a session about tackling joblessness in the Arab world.

Mr Al Mady joined Sabic in 1977, when there were only five other people working for it. Within three decades it had grown to become the world’s biggest chemical maker. Today it has a market capitalisation of US$76 billion and employs 40,000 people.

He was one of a handful of young Saudis hand-picked by the kingdom’s ministry of education to learn chemical engineering in the US in the early 1970s at a time when Saudi Arabia did not have a single major chemical plant.

They were to learn how to turn the vast oil reserves lying deep below the kingdom’s deserts into valuable chemicals using the waste gases that at that time were burned off at the wellhead during the oil drilling process, known in the industry as flaring.

The company was able to rapidly expand its operations in the kingdom and beyond, helped by its ability to tap cheap natural gas to manufacture plastics while competitors in Europe and the US struggled to compete and paying much more for the gas or oil feedstock needed to make ethylene – the building block petrochemical.

But the recent growth of the shale gas industry has dramatically revived the fortunes of many of Sabic’s competitors reducing the price advantage enjoyed by the Saudi company for decades.

Last month it reported a 29 per cent drop in fourth quarter profits.

The National.ae


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Quote 2 :

Saudi industry preparing for new modernisation effort

Mohammed Najib, Ramallah - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
15 March 2015

Saudi defence and security companies are preparing to play a major role in the country's defence modernisation efforts, senior Saudi defence sources have told IHS Jane's .

"We were asked to be ready to take part in the huge Saudi armed forces new armament process that will be led by his highness new Saudi Defence Minister Muhammad bin Salman," Ghassan al-Shibl, the CEO of Saudi Arabia's Advanced Electronics Company (AEC), told IHS Jane's in late February.

The appointment of engineer Muhammad Madi as a head of the kingdom's Military Industries Corporation (MIC) has been seen as a strong sign of the new defence minister's vision and strategy in supporting local industry, which, according to Saudi armament policy, must have a manufacturing role in any arms deal brokered with foreign defence companies.


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Quote 3 :

Operation Protect

Saudi Arabia 2015, Industry
Focus : Defense Industry

As a defense market, Saudi Arabia remains one of the world's strongest and fastest growing; however, key appointments and developments have invigorated the Kingdom's longstanding mission of domestic military industrialization and strengthening the local supply chain.

In terms of purchasing power, Saudi Arabia and some of its Gulf neighbors have been among the world's largest spenders in recent years. In 2014, Saudi Arabia spent roughly 10% of its GDP on defense, good enough to lead the region in percentage of GDP, surpassing India as the largest importer of defense equipment to take 3rd place globally, as well as ranking 7th in the world for total defense spending. Last year also witnessed Saudi Arabia becoming US's top defense trading partner. According to the IHS annual Global Defence Trade Report, this dramatic trend is far from over. Saudi Arabia increased its imports spending by 54% from 2013 to 2014, and an additional YoY increase of 52% is projected for 2015, or a total of $9.8 billion. Potentially, the Middle East could become a $110 billion import market over the next decade. However, the Kingdom has also set its sights expanding the capabilities of its local supply chain and defense industry. Complete self-sufficiency, of course, still remains an unfeasible goal, at least for the foreseeable future, but due to Saudi Arabia's financial resources, close relations with Washington DC and leading defense firms on either side of the Atlantic, the Kingdom has made some dramatic industrial leaps. As one of the US's longest and stoutest allies in the region, Uncle Sam has understood that its own regional strategic goals would be greatly aided by the development of the Kingdom's local defense industry. Beyond being a major supplier of military equipment to Saudi Arabia, the US has also greatly contributed in crucial technology and know-how transfer via such initiatives as the Economic Offset Program.

Perhaps the clearest example of Riyadh's emphasis on its military industrialization in 2015 is the appointment of former SABIC CEO Mohamed Al Mady to head the Military Industries Company (MIC). The MIC is the government entity charged with, among other things, “actively developing the Kingdom's military factories to accommodate advanced military manufacturing, in order to satisfy the needs of the military sector and to contribute to developing the nation's military base through technology transfer."

Al Mady, who was appointed via Royal Decree from HRH King Salman in February, worked with SABIC for nearly four decades, starting from when it was merely a five person operation to the 40,000-employee, $76-billion market cap giant it is today. His expertise and leadership—demonstrated by his guidance of SABIC's transformation toward becoming the world's largest chemical manufacturer—is seen as a large boon for the domestic military industrialization of the country.

Also part of MIC's mission is to aid the defense sector in attracting Saudi youth with job opportunities. Overall unemployment in Saudi Arabia remains in the double digits, with unemployment amongst Saudi youth even higher than the national average. Thus, the indigenous development of the defense sector is not only seen as a key strategic imperative from a security standpoint, it also figures to be quite valuable in two other major government initiatives: diversifying the national economy and lowering unemployment rates for Saudi nationals.

In the private sector, some of the world's largest defense companies are also renewing their commitment to the country and further contributing toward the industry's localization and technology transfer. For example, the US's Northrop Grumman, which has been dealing with the country for over four decades, recently designated the Kingdom as one of six “priority countries," and will establish a 100% non-joint venture local presence. The company, through its already existing joint ventures in the country, already employ 1,700 people with 60% Saudization. BAE Systems, likewise, also recently designated Saudi Arabia as one of its regional hubs.

Domestic military industrialization has been Riyadh's strategy for quite some time, but regional crises in 2014 and the first half of 2015 have heightened the urgency of the matter. With the Islamic State (IS)—which has made its designs on the Kingdom known to everyone—controlling large portions of Iraqi territory and with Saudi Arabia currently leading an Arab coalition air campaign against Shia Houthi rebels in Yemen, the country is facing serious security issues on both its northern and southern border.


The Business Year



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Otherwise, chuuut ! All the rest is secret…

And anyway, we (Gulf Arabs) have all deserted completely the forum. It is all up to you now, only you speak just between you. Happy !!!


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