Sale of Loose Milk to be Banned in Pakistan.PFA

[B.K.N]

Maybe Nestle tests the milk at collection centers now, no company was testing in 2007.

They are testing since begging 2007 sa bhi pehlay. Price milk ki quality ka mutabiq hoti
And Jo khula milk homes par supply krtay hain wo is machine sa creme nikal letay hain and koi chemical bhi milatay hain shayad

 

[PakSword]

thats exactly how milk collection works farmers have found a way to cheat the system and its not just farmers processor collect 3 times less milk than what they are processing dialy they are adding cheap milk powder imported from india so their quality is not great as well.

as for raw milk its also pathetic because farmers are injecting hormones to extand lactatic period of animals and these hormones are dangerous to consumers by banning raw milk govt is giving processors total control over supply and if unchecked these cooperations will sale poison to make profits!

Best milk is powdered milk in Pakistan... that too of foreign brands.. lolll

or if you have your own cow.

 

[jamahir]

Oh you naive PDFers.
Do you know how bad raw milk is?
It's full of bacteria that makes the milk go bad quickly, especially in the summer.
So these guys add copious amounts of antibiotics to keep the milk "fresh"
Oh and lets not even forget the real possibility of contamination of the milk by disease causing bacteria.
Furthermore, whats to stop them from watering down or worse, adding more chemicals to the milk?
A nation obsessed with shortcuts will not all of a sudden become sayana because of milk.

Pasteurized bottled milk is the most wholesome milk as you don't need to add any chemicals to it.
Just boil it and bottle it.

I agree with your points.

As for the plastic packets, I think the milk should be supplied in cardboard boxes to minimize pollution.

@Hamartia Antidote, how is it done in USA ??

 

[PakSword]

They are testing since begging 2007 sa pehlay. Price milk ki quality ka mutabiq hoti
And Jo khula milk homes par supply krtay hain wo is machine sa creme nikal letay hain and koi chemical bhi milatay hain shayad

There are two testing process.. One checks the thickness.. the other one checks whether the milk contains harmful substances other than bacteria.

You are saying that Nestle was testing for both? I don't think so. In 2016, Nestle milk was found containing Formalin in it, which of course was not put by the company, suppliers prolly provided the harmful milk to them and they failed to find it.

Baqi gawala kia karta hai yeh tou sab ko pata hai..

 

[El Sidd]

I agree with your points.

As for the plastic packets, I think the milk should be supplied in cardboard boxes to minimize pollution.

@Hamartia Antidote, how is it done in USA ??

this doesn't concern you potential lynch victim.

its a miracle you are talking about exploitation of cows from India.

lynch yourself if others did not care enough

 

[fisher1]

I audited operational processes of one of the famous brands in Pakistan in 2007.

First of all, we have to understand the terms in use in milk industry:

Raw Milk: Raw milk is the unprocessed milk that has not undergone any process of heat treatment or homogenization. Milk in its raw form is usable only for a few hours and naturally throws the cream on top (without boiling). If you leave this milk for a few hours, the top portion of this milk is more creamy and butter can be obtained from it. To drink it,


Pasteurization: Heating the milk to a certain temperature and then quickly cooling it down to eliminate bacteria.

There are three temperatures used to pasteurize milk
1 - 145 Degrees F for 30 minutes (Milk is usable for a couple of days if hygienically packed)
2 - 165 Degrees F for 15 to 20 seconds (Milk is usable for 2-3 weeks if hygienically packed)
3 - 280 Degrees F for 02 seconds (Ultra High Temperature -UHT treatment, that keeps the milk usable for months if hygienically packed properly, mostly in tetrapak packaging)

Boiling Point of Milk: 212.6 Degree F

Homogenization: It's the process that leads to evenly mixing fat molecules by breaking them into smaller particles so that the cream doesn't gather on top and is evenly distributed in the whole volume. Homogenization makes it impossible to get cream out of the milk even after boiling.

Clotted Cream: The cream that clots on top of the raw milk after boiling.

Skimmed Milk: The milk left after taking the cream out of it.

===========================

At the time when I audited that company, most of the companies in this industry didn't have their own farms. They had contracts with local farmers who supplied the milk to them. The formula of price depended on the specific gravity of milk (that tells how creamy is the milk and how much water has been mixed in it). So, companies knew that what's the specific gravity of milk containing 3% fat, 1.5% fat, 0.5% fat and 4% fat. The standard they had set at that time was that if a farmer brings milk having specific gravity of 3% fat, they gave them full amount, the lesser the specific gravity, the lesser amount was paid to the farmers (which means that either they had mixed water in it, or took out the top portion of the milk themselves to make butter and ghee). The milk with less specific gravity was subjected to evaporation until the required thickness is not obtained.. so naturally the volume would reduce and hence less payments to the farmers.

After getting the standard thickness, the company used to homogenize and pasteurize the milk at UHT (much more than the boiling point) to kill the bacteria and pack it immediately so that bacteria in the environment do not enter the milk before it is packed.. This way, milk is drinkable for a longer period of time if remains packed properly.

===========================

Now interesting facts:

The COO told me that farmers have the ways to take out the cream and mix certain chemicals in the milk to make the thickness acceptable for full payment. Most of the companies (including the one that I audited) didn't have any process to identify any chemicals in the milk supplied by the farmers.

UHT treatment changes the taste of the milk to somewhat burnt. Anyone who has knowledge of how the raw milk (or even boiled raw milk) tastes, he can immediately tell the difference in taste of unnaturally burnt milk. This UHT treated milk is less healthy (according to the company's COO too, although he wanted to say that it is not healthy).

It is not a guarantee that UHT treated milk in tetrapak packaging doesn't contain harmful hormones and chemicals, because most companies do not have means to validate this information (I don't know about now, but 10-12 years back, this was the case and that's why when SC tested the milk, most of the brands were found to supply harmful milk.

Heating the milk to 165 degrees F kills 99% bacteria in the milk.. In our homes, we boil it, which takes the temperature to 212.4 degree F. It's still not burnt, because boiling point doesn't allow burning of the ingredients in the milk.. If 165 degree F kills almost all the harmful bacteria, what about boiling the raw milk which also kills 99-100 percent bacteria?

=====================================

Conclusion:

Unless we know that the milk company doesn't produce milk in its own farms, the packaged milk can easily be considered harmful.


Milk companies which also produce butter and cream, it can be assumed that they are also involved in artificial thickening of milk, because otherwise they can't get enough cream to sell separately or convert into butter. Homogenization makes it impossible to find out whether cream has been extracted out of the milk, because there's no cream clotted at all.. so we can never know whether the thickness of the packaged milk is due to cream or some other compound/ chemical.

The best milk is raw (consumed within minutes of extraction), or heated till 165 degree F only, if left for a few hours. Boiling is not necessary, but it does give clotted cream.

@Mentee @War Thunder @Maxpane @newb3e @BHarwana @fitpOsitive

Boiling is necessary. There are some germs that might pass on from animal in milk to human causing disease. I forgot which one exactly, will research in a bit. Of course, this isn't common and you will be completely fine for the most part but you never know if your cow is diseased. Better be safe than sorry at all times.

Edit: M. Bovis - bovine tuberculosis. C brunetti - Q fever. Brucella, leptospirosis. Sorry, i forgot the others and too tired to search more but we were told how before Pasteurisation there were some really serious diseases from milk that were transmitted. Boil your milk!. It's really not worth the risk and boiling doesn't really cause nutrition to be lost as much.

Or if you've a thermometer and can be bothered, heat to at least 65-75c, that's enough to kill most pathogenic germs.

 

[HAIDER]

I agree with your points.

As for the plastic packets, I think the milk should be supplied in cardboard boxes to minimize pollution.

Use plastic bottle or glass .. In Canada milk companies use plastic bags.

Canadian pack

 

[PakSword]

Boiling is necessary. There are some germs that might pass on from animal in milk to human causing disease. I forgot which one exactly, will research in a bit. Of course, this isn't common and you will be completely fine for the most part but you never know if your cow is diseased. Better be safe than sorry at all times.

At 165 degrees F, most of the harmful bacteria (99%) are killed.. Boiling also kills some useful bacteria. You are probably talking about Salmonella, which is removed by low temp pasteurization. Boiling kills those bacteria too, which help in digestion..

Low temperature pasteurized milk is the best.. I don't know if we have any brand that sells low temperature treated milk in Pakistan. The shelf life of that milk is very less that's why companies don't produce low temp pasteurized milk.

In UAE, low temperature pasteurization is common.

 

[jamahir]

Use plastic bottle or glass .. In Canada milk companies use plastic bags.

Canadian pack

How is the plastic recycled ??

 

[El Sidd]

You people do know humans gave up drinking milk 10000 years ago of other species?

Right?

 

[Pandora]

fcuk that i prefer untouched milk raw.

I once had the privilege of how Milk is treated at the source. Milk man was singing one part Milk one part water making it ready for delivery. In Punjabi he was saying

Eik Magha dhodh tay Eik Magha panri tay ay hogaya do kilo.

The water he was using was same water cows were using to drink. At the end he threw a piece of Phatkari (Potash Alum) claiming it is to remove germs and preserve flavour. I never once used loose milk after that incident. There is no such thing as Khalas dhoodh nowadays so better go for packaged milk which has at least been treated to remove bacteria.

If you want Khalas get your own animals.

 

[fisher1]

At 165 degrees F, most of the harmful bacteria (99%) are killed.. Boiling also kills some useful bacteria. You are probably talking about Salmonella, which is removed by low temp pasteurization. Boiling kills those bacteria too, which help in digestion..

Low temperature pasteurized milk is the best.. I don't know if we have any brand that sells low temperature treated milk in Pakistan. The shelf life of that milk is very less that's why companies don't produce low temp pasteurized milk.

In UAE, low temperature pasteurization is common.

I edited my post, also this

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880910/

Not just salmonella, some really scary ones that have become rare due to pasteurisation.

Yeah i don't know any brand that sells low temp milk. Some of the popular ones are Nestle, Haleeb, Olper. I have seen creamy as an option but not anything about the temp they're heated to.

 

[PakSword]

I edited my post, also this

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880910/

Not just salmonella, some really scary ones that have become rare due to pasteurisation.

Yeah i don't know any brand that sells low temp milk. Some of the popular ones are Nestle, Haleeb, Olper. I have seen creamy as an option but not anything about the temp they're heated to.

Most of them are UHT treated.

 

[HAIDER]

How is the plastic recycled ??

Lots of option, either you drop at some food chain where they have designated area or recycle bin and garbage bin provided by city.

 

[PakSword]

I once had the privilege of how Milk is treated at the source. Milk man was singing one part Milk one part water making it ready for delivery. In Punjabi he was saying

Eik Magha dhodh tay Eik Magha panri tay ay hogaya do kilo.

The water he was using was same water cows were using to drink. At the end he threw a piece of Phatkari (Potash Alum) claiming it is to remove germs and preserve flavour. I never once used loose milk after that incident. There is no such thing as Khalas dhoodh nowadays so better go for packaged milk which has at least been treated to remove bacteria.

If you want Khalas get your own animals.

In Pakistan, even packaged milk is suspected of containing harmful substances.

===

Is formalin harmful to humans?
Formaldehyde is a highly toxic systemic poison that is absorbed well by inhalation. The vapor is a severe respiratory tract and skin irritant and may cause dizziness or suffocation.

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov › mmg › mmg