SAC FC-31 Stealth Fighter: News & Discussions

[Asoka]

Shengyang also developed J11d and J16. I've admit they lack of the motivation and creativity as ChengDu has. But You shall not call FC31 a crap, that's little bit over the top.

I admit J-11d, J-15 and J-16 are pretty good. That's because Su-27 were very good in the beginning.

May be calling FC-31 a crap is over the top. I have to admit.

I have no liking of it, when it was first shown carrying on a truck covered up with a tarp. It may still be developed into something decent, if Shenyang put some thoughts into it. But that requires a new design team and a new leadership.

It has two engines, and its not burdened with ridiculous design requirements like F-35. So there is still some hope, I admit.

 

[帅的一匹]

I admit J-11d, J-15 and J-16 are pretty good. That's because Su-27 were very good in the beginning.

May be calling FC-31 a crap is over the top. I have to admit.

I have no liking of it, when it was first shown carrying on a truck covered up with a tarp. It may still be developed into something decent, if Shenyang put some thoughts into it. But that requires a new design team and a new leadership.

It has two engines, and its not burdened with ridiculous design requirements like F-35. So there is still some hope, I admit.

We just need to believe Xi JingPing and his team. Recently Yaoming might be nominated as the chairman of China basketball association, means the political reform has started. Given a decent engine, FC31 will be a great platform. Both ChengDu Shengyang are kids of the PRC, will a mother love a son more because he is more competent than another? I know Yang Wei is very competent, but he has to follow the order of central committee.

杨伟要记住他是国家干部，成飞不是他家开的公司。如果什么事情都要斩尽杀绝，分彼此你我，他就不是一个合格的干部！如果国家需要他到北京，他就必须去。我不相信国家会为了所谓沈飞的裙带关系就把杨伟废掉！说句实话，林左鸣都走了，杨伟也不算什么。

你杨伟吃肉，总要留一口汤给沈飞喝。

Now it's fully obvious that China won't export J20. We must support ShengYang to develop FC31 for export. When needed, 611 has to help 601. It's a national interest at stake, not personal one.

 

[Deino]

I admit J-11d, J-15 and J-16 are pretty good. That's because Su-27 were very good in the beginning.

May be calling FC-31 a crap is over the top. I have to admit.

I have no liking of it, when it was first shown carrying on a truck covered up with a tarp. It may still be developed into something decent, if Shenyang put some thoughts into it. But that requires a new design team and a new leadership.

It has two engines, and its not burdened with ridiculous design requirements like F-35. So there is still some hope, I admit.

Then at least try to argue !?

Why should a design based around the outher lines - and here You are again plain wrong; it is not a cheap know-off - of the F-22 be wrong?

So fra I got not a single technical argument that disqualifies the FC-31 from the start as crap as You call it.

Deino

 

[Asoka]

We just need to believe Xi JingPing and his team. Recently Yaoming might be nominated as the chairman of China basketball association, means the political reform has started. Given a decent engine, FC31 will be a great platform. Both ChengDu Shengyang are kids of the PRC, will a mother love a son more because he is more competent than another? I know Yang Wei is very competent, but he has to follow the order of central committee.

杨伟要记住他是国家干部，成飞不是他家开的公司。如果什么事情都要斩尽杀绝，分彼此你我，他就不是一个合格的干部！如果国家需要他到北京，他就必须去。我不相信国家会为了所谓沈飞的裙带关系就把杨伟废掉！说句实话，林左鸣都走了，杨伟也不算什么。

你杨伟吃肉，总要留一口汤给沈飞喝。

Now it's fully obvious that China won't export J20. We must support ShengYang to develop FC31 for export. When needed, 611 has to help 601. It's a national interest at stake, not personal one.

Sounds like you are one of those Shenyang boys on the internet. Yang Wei is one of those rare and outstanding aviation engineering talent in the world. Get rid of him, so he can't work in his field, because he is good, could only happen in a hopeless country, that is going down the drain.

I am glad he got to keep his job and stay in Chengdu and do his work for his country .

Then at least try to argue !?

Why should a design based around the outher lines - and here You are again plain wrong; it is not a cheap know-off - of the F-22 be wrong?

So fra I got not a single technical argument that disqualifies the FC-31 from the start as crap as You call it.

Deino

The problem is positioning. How should FC-31 fit in. It makes no sense to make a medium or small size plane with an internal weapon bay.

That is for large and heavy plane. Even for the size of F-22, the internal space became very tight, once you used up the space to store 6 medium range missiles and two small missiles.

And you also need to store sufficient amount of fuel internally. And you also have to squeeze in all other equipments.

The F-35 is overheating and they can't put a bigger AC unit in it. No room left. This is a very serious problem for any electrical and electronic equipment.

I also suspect there is no more spare space left in F-22 to upgrade or stuff in more equipments. Look at these pictures. You can clearly see all spaces are max. out. Equipments and cables are densely packed in.

So to design FC-31 as a medium fighter with an internal weapon bay, makes zero sense, stealth or not. And if it wants to go for the large and heavy fighter route, China already got J-20. No need for another plane of that size.

I don't even need to bring out other technical issues. This size problem alone, will nail FC-31's coffin shut.

 

[Deino]

Sounds like you are one of those Shenyang boys on the internet. Yang Wei is one of those rare and outstanding aviation engineering talent in the world. Get rid of him, so he can't work in his field, because he is good, could only happen in a hopeless country, that is going down the drain.

I am glad he got to keep his job and stay in Chengdu and do his work for his country .



The problem is positioning. How should FC-31 fit in. It makes no sense to have a plane with an internal weapon bay that is medium size or smaller size. That is for large and heavy plane. Even for the size of F-22, the internal space became very tight, once you used up the space to store 6 medium range missiles and two small missiles. And you also need to store sufficient amount of fuel internally. And you also have to squeeze in all other equipments. The F-35 is overheating and they can't put a bigger AC unit in it. No room left. This is a very serious problem for any electrical and electronic equipment.

I also suspect there is no more spare space in F-22 to upgrade or stuff in more equipments. Look at these pictures. You can clearly see all spaces are max. out. Equipments and cables are densely packed in.

View attachment 367465

View attachment 367466
So to design FC-31 as a medium fighter with an internal weapon bay, makes zero sense, stealth or not. And if it wants to go for the large and heavy fighter route, China already got J-20. No need for another plane of that size.

I don't even need to bring out other technical issues. This size problem alone, will nail FC-31's coffin shut.

To admit, IMO this is not an issue. The point of overheating the F-35 is not a serious issue as You might deem - at least You find so much varying reports about the Lightning from the worst critics to the highest praise ! And I really can't think that the US military is that stupid that thy continue if it is that bad as the worst critics say.
Even more after the first wave of attacks even with external loads this type could be a suitable fighter ... as a carrier type esp. off the smaller Type 001/001A carriers.

All it lacks IMO is a decent engine. As @wanglaokan noted; an engine in the class of the EJ-200 would solve this issue.

Besides the export-argument I see an even more important issue: for SAC it is probably the final card to play to stay in fighter business after the Flanker series will end some day. As such alone from the industrial point of view it is more than important to keep this capability at SAC and leave not CAC alone in the field of fighter aircraft design in CHina.

But maybe - similar to the J-20 thread - we have again simply different opinions.

 

[Asoka]

To admit, IMO this is not an issue. The point of overheating the F-35 is not a serious issue as You might deem - at least You find so much varying reports about the Lightning from the worst critics to the highest praise ! And I really can't think that the US military is that stupid that thy continue if it is that bad as the worst critics say.
Even more after the first wave of attacks even with external loads this type could be a suitable fighter ... as a carrier type esp. off the smaller Type 001/001A carriers.

All it lacks IMO is a decent engine. As @wanglaokan noted; an engine in the class of the EJ-200 would solve this issue.

Besides the export-argument I see an even more important issue: for SAC it is probably the final card to play to stay in fighter business after the Flanker series will end some day. As such alone from the industrial point of view it is more than important to keep this capability at SAC and leave not CAC alone in the field of fighter aircraft design in CHina.

But maybe - similar to the J-20 thread - we have again simply different opinions.

"for SAC it is probably the final card to play to stay in fighter business after the Flanker series will end some day"

True, that is a serious issue facing any fighter plane company. Many US companies were merged because of lack of orders. Shenyang could still make J-15 for PLAN for the foreseeable future. China will probably have at least 5 Aircraft Carriers. We have one already, another one's hulk is almost finished, and another one with catapult is already started.

J-10 and J-11, J-11B will need to be replaced down the road. Shengyan could work a replacement for them. Stealth with internal weapon bay for a medium size plane is a trap. Don't fall into it.

That's the point, I want to make.

"And I really can't think that the US military is that stupid that thy continue if it is that bad as the worst critics say."

The F-35 problems are more serious than we think. The MSM is in LockeedMartin's pocket. They are not reporting them much. Now, at least one Publication is openly calling for its cancellation. That's not going to happen, IMO. US and its allies are stuck with it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...should-cancel-failed-f-35-fighter-jet-program

 

[Kompromat]

From what I know, the PAF has communicated its interest in the CAC J-20 to the officials in Beijing.

You don't understand Chinese politics, Deino. CAC is the parent corporation of Shenyang Aviation and ChengDu Aviation. CAC's leadership is dominated by Shenyang people. Shenyang is mother of ChengDu and other smaller aviation company. In the 1960's, China decided to spread its heavy industries away from NorthEast or Manchuria into the mountainous region in preparation for war with USSR.

So how do you split up the company?

Those people who has connections got to stay in Shenyang, and other folks got to pack up and move to those poor mountainous regions. When they got there, they have start everything by themselves. There was no buildings, no equipments, just their bare hands. They live like peasants, grow their own foods, raise their own pigs.

Those folks at ChengDu are tough and dedicated. They managed to create J-7, FC-17, J-10, and F-20 under extreme conditions. And what did those people in Shenyang managed to create? J-8. It was developed for export, but not one was sold to foreign customers. Whereas, J-7 and FC-17 was an export success. Through their better connections to higher Chinese leadership, the job of assemble Su-27 domestically was given to them. Later, they copy it and call it J-11B.

Those Shenyang people are extremely jealous of the ChengDu. They lose the J-20 design competition to ChengDu, so they come up with FC-31, supposedly for export. There is no need for PLAAF or PLAN for such plane. That's why both Services have not shown the least bit of interest toward it.

But there is little or no chance that foreign buyers will order, unless the Chinese PLAAF or PLAN will order some first. So those Shenyang people started this silly internet forums and TV shows campaign.

"By the way, I think the PLAAF is its own way of acting and decision making completely irrelevant to what the internet-community thinks; and I'm convinced that is good that way."

Don't under estimate their influences. Those people are very good at politics and are well connected. They are the second or third generations of the Chinese leaders.

They tried to get rid of Yang Wei, the Chief Designer of J-20, by promote him into a useless desk job. Typical Chinese politic to get rid a good competent person. The PLAAF fought back, saying, unless Yang Wei keep his duty with J-20, we will not pay.

F-35 has the most powerful production engine in the world, and has the State of the Art Avionics. FC-31 has nothing except the stealth shaping exterior. The internal weapon bay can severely limits the weapon load, fuel load, and range.

FC-31 is a straight, cheap, knock-off of F-22, not F-35. The lack of imagination and creativity by the Shenyang people is startling and plainly demonstrated in this crap. This junk makes me ashamed to be a Chinese. They are trying to sell it to our loyal brother and friend, the Pakinstanis. Run!

If an animal walks like duck, cracks like a duck, it is a duck. Deino.

 

[Akasa]

Through their better connections to higher Chinese leadership, the job of assemble Su-27 domestically was given to them. Later, they copy it and call it J-11B.

The J-11B adopted the Su-27SK's airframe, but its subsystems and weaponry were sourced from Chinese vendors. Add in airframe enhancements, FBW upgrades, integration with wholly new electronics & armament, and the development becomes significantly more complex than a mere case of reverse-engineering.

The number of J-11A/B/15/16 either matches or outstrips that of the J-10.

F-35 has the most powerful production engine in the world, and has the State of the Art Avionics. FC-31 has nothing except the stealth shaping exterior. The internal weapon bay can severely limits the weapon load, fuel load, and range.

A couple of points here:
- If the FC-31 uses 2x 100 kN class WS-13E, its total thrust actually matches that of the F-35.
- Both the F-35 and FC-31 use DAS, EOTS, a fairly large AESA radar, as well as HMS & HUD. Without knowing the technical details of the accompanying systems, no one can make a fair judgment of FC-31 vs F-35.

As emphasized at the 2016 Zhuhai Airshow, the FC-31's internal bay can actually accommodate 6 air-to-air missiles, 4 ASMs, or four 1000-lb-class bombs. That is not a poor loadout for a fighter of its size and even matches that of the F-22 in terms of payload versatility.

FC-31 is a straight, cheap, knock-off of F-22, not F-35.

 

[帅的一匹]

Sounds like you are one of those Shenyang boys on the internet. Yang Wei is one of those rare and outstanding aviation engineering talent in the world. Get rid of him, so he can't work in his field, because he is good, could only happen in a hopeless country, that is going down the drain.

I am glad he got to keep his job and stay in Chengdu and do his work for his country .



The problem is positioning. How should FC-31 fit in. It makes no sense to make a medium or small size plane with an internal weapon bay.

That is for large and heavy plane. Even for the size of F-22, the internal space became very tight, once you used up the space to store 6 medium range missiles and two small missiles.

And you also need to store sufficient amount of fuel internally. And you also have to squeeze in all other equipments.

The F-35 is overheating and they can't put a bigger AC unit in it. No room left. This is a very serious problem for any electrical and electronic equipment.

I also suspect there is no more spare space left in F-22 to upgrade or stuff in more equipments. Look at these pictures. You can clearly see all spaces are max. out. Equipments and cables are densely packed in.

View attachment 367465

View attachment 367466
So to design FC-31 as a medium fighter with an internal weapon bay, makes zero sense, stealth or not. And if it wants to go for the large and heavy fighter route, China already got J-20. No need for another plane of that size.

I don't even need to bring out other technical issues. This size problem alone, will nail FC-31's coffin shut.

Actually I'm comin from south, I'm not those what you call ShengYang guys. There is always a reason why Yang Wei has a job transfer, why make it sound like a political persecution? Rumors around nowadays, so don't screw it.

 

[shhh]

We used to have Pakistanis brag abt buying euro typhoon and now we have Pakistanis concern about maintaining cost of a 5th gen fighter?

It's better spend money on future rather than an lower tech weapon, right?

I am not really sure what you are trying to say.
5th Gen fighter is our future need

 

[MystryMan]

From what I know, the PAF has communicated its interest in the CAC J-20 to the officials in Beijing.

Previously we heard that PAF has shown interest in FC-31. Does it means PAF is looking at both the designs and haven't decided yet to go with one over the other.

 

[Deino]

From what I know, the PAF has communicated its interest in the CAC J-20 to the officials in Beijing.

Honestly ... I still don't think the PAF will get the J-20 nor that the J-20 will be exported ever.
Exactly for this the FC-31 is under development.


By the way ... I want clearer images !!!

 

[Kompromat]

I know the reason why you'd believe that. What im reporting here is what i received from the PAF. It is also likely that PAF might prefer acquiring technologies used in J-20s to be integrated in the J-31 airframe.

Honestly ... I still don't think the PAF will get the J-20 nor that the J-20 will be exported ever.
Exactly for this the FC-31 is under development.


By the way ... I want clearer images !!!

 

[cirr]

FC-31‘s cockpit now officially confirmed:

中航工业在第十一届中国航展上首次公开“鹘鹰”战斗机先进座舱

http://www.cannews.com.cn/2017/0113/161984_2.shtml

The J-16's is said to have a similar layout and functions such as touch control/voice control etc

 

[Akasa]

FC-31‘s cockpit now officially confirmed:

中航工业在第十一届中国航展上首次公开“鹘鹰”战斗机先进座舱

http://www.cannews.com.cn/2017/0113/161984_2.shtml

Does the V2.0 prototype have an EOTS?