SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[FuturePAF]

China has never promised to buy JF17, that's a rumor.
JF17 is a good fighter, but China will not buy any light fighter.
The distance from Zengmu Misha, the southernmost island in China, to Haikou airport is 1800km, so light fighters are not suitable for China.

It maybe a good idea to promote further co-development of the JF-17 with the Turks, if they are actually interested. They have a need to counter not only the Rafale, but soon enough they will be faced with the F-35 in the Hellenic Air Force. Not sure about the reliability of this news from today, but it will be true sooner rather then later.

F-35 Fighter Jets To Greece? US Makes Official Proposal

Greece's plans to acquire the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter has seemingly taken a step forward following the visit of several US

www.google.com

Pakistan too would want to continue the development of the JF-17 and a low RCS development would be attractive to many Air Forces around the world. If the price is half that of a F-35 and below that of even 4th Gen fighters, it could wipe out sales prospects of all other competitors in the light fighter market of non-aligned nations.

The Turks even studied a single engine conventional layout T-FX design. The Turks will also need a reliable engine supplier for their T-FX program, so acquiring/co-producing a light single engine fighter with 100-120 kn class engine may have future downstream benefits for decades to come.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/01/1l-Image-TAI-TF-X-Stealth-Fighter.jpg

 

[Shotgunner51]

The JF-17 probably also doesn’t fit into the PLAAF or PLANAF’s doctrine of a relatively short legged aircraft with a lighter payload.

Just like how the J-10 has matured enough to match the Rafale, perhaps the PAF is waiting till the J-35 and/or T-FX match or exceed the F-35 (which could eventually be sold to India). The PAF always focuses on maintaining a qualitative edge when possible. In the meantime, a low observable Loyal wingman would be a project the PAF is focusing on, in the fighter arena beyond development of the JF-17 and acquisition of the J-10.

Exactly! There are multiple next gen options for PAF to choose, I won't know what's their choice, but for PLAAF, it's obviously going for more unmanned and perhaps AI-controlled vehicles.

For PLAAF, air superiority will be primarily centered on J-20 (with UAV aka "loyal wingman"), J-11B as supplement (say fleet escort or "shooter"), while strike missions done by heavy/medium multi-role fighters (J-10/16), bombers (H-6K/N, H-20) or UAV (GJ-11) depending on the mission type. You can see why there is no urgent need for J-35 (FC-31).

But PLAN is different, they need J-35 (FC-31) to do what J-20 is doing in PLAAF.

 

[Deino]

Via 高山CG

 

[araz]

It maybe a good idea to promote further co-development of the JF-17 with the Turks, if they are actually interested. They have a need to counter not only the Rafale, but soon enough they will be faced with the F-35 in the Hellenic Air Force. Not sure about the reliability of this news from today, but it will be true sooner rather then later.

F-35 Fighter Jets To Greece? US Makes Official Proposal

Greece's plans to acquire the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter has seemingly taken a step forward following the visit of several US

www.google.com

Pakistan too would want to continue the development of the JF-17 and a low RCS development would be attractive to many Air Forces around the world. If the price is half that of a F-35 and below that of even 4th Gen fighters, it could wipe out sales prospects of all other competitors in the light fighter market of non-aligned nations.

The Turks even studied a single engine conventional layout T-FX design. The Turks will also need a reliable engine supplier for their T-FX program, so acquiring/co-producing a light single engine fighter with 100-120 kn class engine may have future downstream benefits for decades to come.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/01/1l-Image-TAI-TF-X-Stealth-Fighter.jpg

The JFT is too small to be a stealth fighter. They will require a 140 kn engine to have enough space to house 4+2 missiles on the body plus have enough range to carry out its mission profile. I dont see that happenning on the JFT sized frame but the J10 sized frame might be enough.
A

China has never promised to buy JF17, that's a rumor.
JF17 is a good fighter, but China will not buy any light fighter.
The distance from Zengmu Misha, the southernmost island in China, to Haikou airport is 1800km, so light fighters are not suitable for China.

The problem is ever since I have heard of the JFT I have been hearing in the international and Pakistani press of a commitment by the Chinese Govtt to buy 150 platforms. Now I dont know what the source of this is but it is stuck in our minds.
Lately we have heard that this was never the case but to get the fact out of Pakistani memory bank is difficult. I can understand exactly why the PLAAF would not want to buy the JFT.
A

 

[BigMelatonin]

Iran should get it

Yes, the J-31 is the only real option for IRIAF. There is no point in buying a 4th gen fighter at this point and Russia will never sell any non-obsolete fighters to Iran.

 

[ziaulislam]

The JFT is too small to be a stealth fighter. They will require a 140 kn engine to have enough space to house 4+2 missiles on the body plus have enough range to carry out its mission profile. I dont see that happenning on the JFT sized frame but the J10 sized frame might be enough.
A


The problem is ever since I have heard of the JFT I have been hearing in the international and Pakistani press of a commitment by the Chinese Govtt to buy 150 platforms. Now I dont know what the source of this is but it is stuck in our minds.
Lately we have heard that this was never the case but to get the fact out of Pakistani memory bank is difficult. I can understand exactly why the PLAAF would not want to buy the JFT.
A

Retrospectively doing a JV when one party wont induct isnt a smart idea.

However pakistan didnt had any other options anyway and was a good learning experience

Weather we can take it one step ahead is the question

 

[FuturePAF]

The JFT is too small to be a stealth fighter. They will require a 140 kn engine to have enough space to house 4+2 missiles on the body plus have enough range to carry out its mission profile. I dont see that happenning on the JFT sized frame but the J10 sized frame might be enough.
A


The problem is ever since I have heard of the JFT I have been hearing in the international and Pakistani press of a commitment by the Chinese Govtt to buy 150 platforms. Now I dont know what the source of this is but it is stuck in our minds.
Lately we have heard that this was never the case but to get the fact out of Pakistani memory bank is difficult. I can understand exactly why the PLAAF would not want to buy the JFT.
A

That’s true. Being limited to a 100-120 kn engine would restricted the potential of a stealth platform. That’s why the SAAB stealth design was centered around a 170 kn engine, from whom the Turks got some consulting work for their T-FX. The real question is who would be willing to supply the Turks with a stand-alone engine of that class. At that point the Turks might as well work with the Chinese to further develop the FC-31 or just sit tight and chance it till the T-FX is ready. They could also just buy/license produce? the J-10CE and put some of their own sub-Systems inside as a stop-gap.

Everything you need to know about Turkey's next-gen stealth fighter jet

As Turkey puts its specialist expertise to the task of developing its own stealth fighter, these are the advanced technological developments you can expect to see.

www.trtworld.com

 

[python-000]

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Via 高山CG

Hope PAF will go for J-35 after J-10C...

 

[dBSPL]

Russia will never sell any non-obsolete fighters to Iran.

Hi, I'm really curious why this is. I would be very pleased if you could give some information about the reasons for this here or in the related topic.Ty.

 

[Trailer23]

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Credit: @NA71

 

[BigMelatonin]

Hi, I'm really curious why this is. I would be very pleased if you could give some information about the reasons for this here or in the related topic.Ty.

For a couple of reasons, Russia and the Israeli state have close relations. For example, Russia allows IAF to bomb unopposed in Syria as long as they do not harm Russians. This is why, despite having modern SAMs, the Syrian Air Defense is using decades old SA-5s against the attacks.
And while Iran and Russia are not enemies, you could call them geopolitical rivals with some converging interests, similar to Iran and Turkiye. They delayed sale of S-300 for years and since then no major sales outside of infantry rifles have been made.
There have been repeated reports of Iranian military officials asking Russians for Su-30/35 and from all the reports I've seen they best thing Russia offered was Su-27SK from the 90s.

But to keep on topic, IMO IRIAF should make serious efforts to try to obtain the J-31 in large numbers to replace it's ancient fleet. Issue will be lack of cash as China seems to be less open to payment with oil.

 

[Last starfighter]

Pakistan should opt for it 100% TOT , and share of knowledge with Chinese Private Company
This would be a great strategic asset to have to make visits to New Delhi for special ocassions

Yes special occasions like their holi

 

[Indos]

For a couple of reasons, Russia and the Israeli state have close relations. For example, Russia allows IAF to bomb unopposed in Syria as long as they do not harm Russians. This is why, despite having modern SAMs, the Syrian Air Defense is using decades old SA-5s against the attacks.
And while Iran and Russia are not enemies, you could call them geopolitical rivals with some converging interests, similar to Iran and Turkiye. They delayed sale of S-300 for years and since then no major sales outside of infantry rifles have been made.
There have been repeated reports of Iranian military officials asking Russians for Su-30/35 and from all the reports I've seen they best thing Russia offered was Su-27SK from the 90s.

But to keep on topic, IMO IRIAF should make serious efforts to try to obtain the J-31 in large numbers to replace it's ancient fleet. Issue will be lack of cash as China seems to be less open to payment with oil.

Many Jews also live in Russia, and like happening in Western nations, they may be a successful business people who can influence the government.

 

[Daniel808]

Exactly! There are multiple next gen options for PAF to choose, I won't know what's their choice, but for PLAAF, it's obviously going for more unmanned and perhaps AI-controlled vehicles.

For PLAAF, air superiority will be primarily centered on J-20 (with UAV aka "loyal wingman"), J-11B as supplement (say fleet escort or "shooter"), while strike missions done by heavy/medium multi-role fighters (J-10/16), bombers (H-6K/N, H-20) or UAV (GJ-11) depending on the mission type. You can see why there is no urgent need for J-35 (FC-31).

But PLAN is different, they need J-35 (FC-31) to do what J-20 is doing in PLAAF.

Yes, Air Force budget still focused on pumping J-20 Production lines. End 2021 alone, J-20 Production already reach 150+ units.

That’s why after 7th Batch J-10C/CP production finished, they would moved to J-10C Production lines to GAC (Guizhou AVIC). While CAC (Chengdu AVIC) focusing on J-20 Production lines.

J-20 Production unit itself expected to be reach 220-250+ Units in the end of this year (Surpassing F-22 production number with high margin)

 

[Luosifen]

Exactly! There are multiple next gen options for PAF to choose, I won't know what's their choice, but for PLAAF, it's obviously going for more unmanned and perhaps AI-controlled vehicles.



Yes, Air Force budget still focused on pumping J-20 Production lines. End 2021 alone, J-20 Production already reach 150+ units.

That’s why after 7th Batch J-10C/CP production finished, they would moved to J-10C Production lines to GAC (Guizhou AVIC). While CAC (Chengdu AVIC) focusing on J-20 Production lines.

J-20 Production unit itself expected to be reach 220-250+ Units in the end of this year (Surpassing F-22 production number with high margin)

Just for clarification, when you say production, are you talking about production as 150 total units built from beginning of serial production, or a 150 build rate per year? I had been under the impression J-20 output was ramping up to somewhere around 40/year.