SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[CHI RULES]

no i will argue J20 is more superior than j31
because china also said J20 not for sale just like america said F22 not for sale

May be J31 is smaller brother of J20 yet quite useful as per Pak requirements. Further Pak FA clearly though have less RCS yet it will not be stealthy like F35.

 

[MastanKhan]

MK Ultra! Kind... how one gets to understand the vibe and mind of good people...?

Not through MSM but through alt media and of course the goldmine of comments sections...

The writing is on the wall:

After JF17, cometh out of blue a replacement JV for the medium multirole fighter to be built by PAC and thence forth cometh a medium stealth fighter to be built by PAC (might be an exisitng frame or adoptation of a successful design).

Tech and sub systems from everyone, of course.

Pragmatic and practical.

Eveyone talks about lack of funds and then forgets to calcuate the best possible option in every possible sense and would like to pay them Russians billions for two sqd of SU35.

Two billions spent at home and freedom forever...and all those local fighters = which side is the math?

The global geopolitical landscape is shifting... fast, time for your good country to make things at home and build comprehensive national strength. Of course jobs, jobs, jobs...

Obviously one has the deepest respect and best wishes for your good country and her people.

All the best. And kindly sell those beautiful JF17s left, right and centre.

Hi,

The problem with the paf is with its lackadaisical attitude towards procurement in a timely manner.

And then a small trickle of problems becomes a raging stream when taking into account 25 + years of indecisions.

The problem with the paf is that it is an incomplete air force---since they wiped out the bombers---it has become a fighter interceptor aircraft kind of air force---where the glory lies in talking about making 9G turns and WVR dog fights.

That is where a heavy strike aircraft has gotten lost deep in the translation.

The enemy has covered all the fronts thru their LR SAMs---the only place they have no control is over the ocean / arabian seas---the bases like pasni / gwadar are beyond the reach of their LR SAMS---thus allowing paf's heavy deep strike aircraft to operate freely and divert the enemy's resources and THIN them out---.

Our problem is that we do not have a civilian " enforcer " or a paf general with out of the box kind of thinking---.

Tactically---money spent on the SU 35 would not be the best deal---unless it is the EFT---but then again you have to look at things this way---at what juncture the deployable chinese EW suite technology is today in comparison to what it will be in 3-5 years---from Turkey and from Italy as well.

And if it is the italian or Turkish EW suite---what guarantees be put in place that a French fiasco does not happen.

The best overall solution is a JF17 version 2.0---at least 20% larger with a load carrying capability of 7000---8000 KG---and that is before the paf gets its Gen 5 aircraft.

no i will argue J20 is more superior than j31
because china also said J20 not for sale just like america said F22 not for sale

Hi,

Welcome to the forum---. An fighter / bomber / strike aircraft design and size has its utility and function. It is not a matter of it being superior to another---but rather a matter of TEAM---which means Together Everyone Achieves More---.

You cannot use a 155mm canon shell where you need a small caliber mortar round---now can you---.

And neither can you use a 5.56 round when you need a .50 caliber strike---but just because the .50 caliber overshadows all the infantry rounds---does it mean everything else is inferior---.

It does not work that way---every aircraft type has its utility and function---that is why aircraft are built in different shapes and sizes and carry different loads.

 

[ebrahym]

J-31 is medium sized and well suited for PAF.

cant we get j-31 airframe and then install avionics we want

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Hi,

The problem with the paf is with its lackadaisical attitude towards procurement in a timely manner.

And then a small trickle of problems becomes a raging stream when taking into account 25 + years of indecisions.

The problem with the paf is that it is an incomplete air force---since they wiped out the bombers---it has become a fighter interceptor aircraft kind of air force---where the glory lies in talking about making 9G turns and WVR dog fights.

That is where a heavy strike aircraft has gotten lost deep in the translation.

The enemy has covered all the fronts thru their LR SAMs---the only place they have no control is over the ocean / arabian seas---the bases like pasni / gwadar are beyond the reach of their LR SAMS---thus allowing paf's heavy deep strike aircraft to operate freely and divert the enemy's resources and THIN them out---.

Our problem is that we do not have a civilian " enforcer " or a paf general with out of the box kind of thinking---.

Tactically---money spent on the SU 35 would not be the best deal---unless it is the EFT---but then again you have to look at things this way---at what juncture the deployable chinese EW suite technology is today in comparison to what it will be in 3-5 years---from Turkey and from Italy as well.

And if it is the italian or Turkish EW suite---what guarantees be put in place that a French fiasco does not happen.

The best overall solution is a JF17 version 2.0---at least 20% larger with a load carrying capability of 7000---8000 KG---and that is before the paf gets its Gen 5 aircraft.



Hi,

Welcome to the forum---. An fighter / bomber / strike aircraft design and size has its utility and function. It is not a matter of it being superior to another---but rather a matter of TEAM---which means Together Everyone Achieves More---.

You cannot use a 155mm canon shell where you need a small caliber mortar round---now can you---.

And neither can you use a 5.56 round when you need a .50 caliber strike---but just because the .50 caliber overshadows all the infantry rounds---does it mean everything else is inferior---.

It does not work that way---every aircraft type has its utility and function---that is why aircraft are built in different shapes and sizes and carry different loads.

Kind sir, the need for heavies is a stand alone one. The only practical solution is to go for JHA/B.

That bird can carry loads..more economic and readily available. With EW suit, which ever available, is still miles ahead in capability than having none. You can have it numbers as well. What more is needed? F35 or F22 is never coming your way. Ever.

Your good country is a central asian and ME power. Your sea borders are dangerously exposed.

The increase in size of JF-17, to say making it JF18, will solve so many of your airforce's woes and redeem so many of the past issues, that it will dazzle you much more than JF17 today.

The funny thing is that you will be able to sell some as well.

Infrastructure and manpower is there. Money is no issue. All is needed is creativity and some daredevil spirit.

Why don't you write a white paper with some good peple like Oscar, Qwua and Billal Khan and have it on the desk of someone who might listen. These gents seem to know things inside out.

You have been advocating these things for ages... why not then give it shot?

You have a great thing going here for your aviation industry, almost on a glide path, build upon it and never look back. China is not holding you back.

Guess preaching to the converted here. Do forgive these silly repititions...of an aging person.

 

[Ultima Thule]

cant we get j-31 airframe and then install avionics we want

not possible, west can't allow you to use their top avionics in J-31

 

[MastanKhan]

Kind sir, the need for heavies is a stand alone one. The only practical solution is to go for JHA/B.

That bird can carry loads..more economic and readily available. With EW suit, which ever available, is still miles ahead in capability than having none. You can have it numbers as well. What more is needed? F35 or F22 is never coming your way. Ever.

Your good country is a central asian and ME power. Your sea borders are dangerously exposed.

The increase in size of JF-17, to say making it JF18, will solve so many of your airforce's woes and redeem so many of the past issues, that it will dazzle you much more than JF17 today.

The funny thing is that you will be able to sell some as well.

Infrastructure and manpower is there. Money is no issue. All is needed is creativity and some daredevil spirit.

Why don't you write a white paper with some good peple like Oscar, Qwua and Billal Khan and have it on the desk of someone who might listen. These gents seem to know things inside out.

You have been advocating these things for ages... why not then give it shot?

You have a great thing going here for your aviation industry, almost on a glide path, build upon it and never look back. China is not holding you back.

Guess preaching to the converted here. Do forgive these silly repititions...of an aging person.

Hi,

You know what---when you talk to the Paf about JH7B---they say it does not have enough power---I mean to say " power to do what "---.

With your experience---and wisdom---you might have a solution for it---tell me how to switch those riding thoroughbreds to riding mules---.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Hi,

You know what---when you talk to the Paf about JH7B---they say it does not have enough power---I mean to say " power to do what "---.

With your experience---and wisdom---you might have a solution for it---tell me how to switch those riding thoroughbreds to riding mules---.

Unnecessarily long and rather boring answer!



When one was busy raising kids...one learnt many things.

The kids can drive you mad, but are great, lovely teachers.

When they wanted to wait/or not do things with excuses if only I have that that then can I do this this...

Waiting of course is never a solution. So one tried to reapeat and practice... let us do with what we have..let us not wait. lets create something out of nothing.

Repeating, repeacting...with patience of gods...finally taken up by them. All happy in the end and learnt the value of making do with what one has.

PAF is a bit of spoilt child. Without a father figure... well. But they are also professional. Once they get the taste of freedom through local production... and see their prestige rise internationally. Things will change.

Transformation of a person or organisation always is rooted in the mind.

When attitude changes the Tao/Universe or Divine, whatever is your pick, will conspire to align with that thought process.

Successful sales is pure attitude/state of mind.

Chin up, shoulders straight and back up right...had to repeact to kids a million times.

And of course, never feeling sorry for one self.

Saddness allowed.

Grief allowed.

But self pitty, oh, big NO NO. Had to lead by example though...tough thing really.

Does it make sense to you, kind sir. I know it is jigbrish..have no right to say what your good countrymen should or should not do. Hence the abastract answer.

China was making those mig21s for how long? They were poorer than you then. But they made those jets and kept their skies safe. Many attempts and many failures..but kept going. And now everything has to come from China.

You have your PAC going...patience, patience.

PAF will change the doctorine sooner than later.

The entire force structure of your good country is evolving. When they move towards an integrated defence forces philosophy... many things are bound to happen.

You are an island nation. In seas lies your wealth and security.

You, Mr. MK, can of course write a book and publish online. Time it takes, but offers a great statisfaction!

Even a free PDF will do wonders.

Be light hearted... there are many things are at play here...just forget PAF or your country for a moment...
Take a step back... look at the world. What do you see..

Personally, peace and development are the wisest choices... hence whatever creates jobs has to the strategic goal of a state that wishes to be.....

 

[ebrahym]

not possible, west can't allow you to use their top avionics in J-31

we can buy their avionics separately for jf-17 and replicate them on j-31 air frame ......

 

[Ultima Thule]

we can buy their avionics separately for jf-17 and replicate them on j-31 air frame ......

kid how old are you do do some research and than talk, you are saying that we use JF-17 avionics in J-31, go kid this place is not for yours go play your toys

 

[ebrahym]

kid how old are you do do some research and than talk, you are saying that we use JF-17 avionics in J-31, go kid this place is not for yours go play your toys

sir yes sir ................................. sorry to interrupt your busy schedule

 

[Ultima Thule]

sir yes sir ................................. sorry to interrupt your busy schedule

kid your logic is totally wrong

 

[ebrahym]

kid your logic is totally wrong

roger that captain ......

 

[The Eagle]

kid your logic is totally wrong

roger that captain ......

Both of you need to stop such behavior for the sake of readers and forum.

@a_b if you have something to add to the topic or any idea/information share here but try to make it in detail and a little brief could be appreciated.

@pakistanipower if you have anything to answer with, come in detail and try to share the info in respect of knowledge to share and gain rather than start others to call kid, this & that like personal attacks. Hopefully you may avoid such attitude while responding to anyone.

Kindly avoid such type of chit chat for everyone's sake here. Thanks you and no offense intended.

 

[ebrahym]

if you have something to add to the topic or any idea/information share here but try to make it in detail and a little brief could be appreciated

all i wanted to say was that if we can get j-31 airframe intact and add whatever avionics we want ........ on which the other guy @pakistanipower said that it was not possible to add western avionics to a chinese airframe ......... end of story no offense given and none taken

 

[Ultima Thule]

we can buy their avionics separately for jf-17 and replicate them on j-31 air frame ......

how can we use 4 generation avionics in 5 generation fighter jet? care to explain