SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[aliaselin]

if a jet becomes similar to LCA, will it become Indian ??? No..
will it become non-chines ?? No

We r buying jets from our friend China not on the basis of Shape but performance and friendship. and if a jet don't become Indian just becoz of loosing its tail, i think Pak will have no issues..

IF it is good and Pak can afford it, Tail or without tail, won't matter...

Good points. As a matter of fact, I'm tired of comparing LCA anc JF17 here

 

[Windjammer]

Albeit, the article is about the Russian Stealth fighter but interestingly the author points out the PAF connection with the J-31.

''The PAK FA plays a major role in India’s competition with China and Pakistan, its two major regional rivals. China has pushed the J-20 stealth fighter project to a stage competitive with the PAK FA, although we know less of the former’s capabilities than of the latter.

For its part, we can expect that Pakistan will likely acquire J-31 stealth fighters from China, whether off the shelf or as part of some kind of joint production scheme.''

https://warisboring.com/so-is-russias-stealth-fighter-any-good-or-not-57a8ed255135#.u0wy4klc4

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Albeit, the article is about the Russian Stealth fighter but interestingly the author points out the PAF connection with the J-31.

''The PAK FA plays a major role in India’s competition with China and Pakistan, its two major regional rivals. China has pushed the J-20 stealth fighter project to a stage competitive with the PAK FA, although we know less of the former’s capabilities than of the latter.

For its part, we can expect that Pakistan will likely acquire J-31 stealth fighters from China, whether off the shelf or as part of some kind of joint production scheme.''

https://warisboring.com/so-is-russias-stealth-fighter-any-good-or-not-57a8ed255135#.u0wy4klc4

Thanks for the article, kind sir.

Right in front of everyone's view...Sino-pak projects have been developing fast.

JF2.0 with angular/stealth shaping is more or less a decade away. If one is not mistaken a MoU was signed way back.

The Chinese CGIs have a nasty habit of becoming the real things..so no one should be surprised to see JF2.0- -- larger, with reduced RCS through angular design incorporating goodies from J10C and J31.

One is certain to see evolution of J31 into PAFs first medium stealth fighter. In numbers, with local production... JF17 has been truly a pathfinder for your country's aviation industry.

Keep this wise strategy of tight lipped execution. It has served your country very well.

 

[Mohammad ahsen]

J-31 is far looking better than J-20 in the term of rear RCS, far far better than J20

no i will argue J20 is more superior than j31
because china also said J20 not for sale just like america said F22 not for sale

 

[Ultima Thule]

no i will argue J20 is more superior than j31
because china also said J20 not for sale just like america said F22 not for sale

do some reasrch than talk

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

PAF's 5th generation fighter, let us call it JF3.0, will be inherting a lot of technology from J20 and J31.
So, even without acquiring J20 as platform, you will have the required capabilities in your particutlar environment.

Without PLAAF acquiring J31 in massive numbers, the platform will too expensive for PAF. The only pragmatic choice would be to work with SAC and CAC and develop JF3.0 and JF2.0 respectively.

The end result will amaze your airforce just like JF1.0 Thunder has done. But a JF3.0 is more than a decade away at least. First a semi stealth fighter to serve your medium platform needs is to materialise.

All the best.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thanks for the article, kind sir.

Right in front of everyone's view...Sino-pak projects have been developing fast.

JF2.0 with angular/stealth shaping is more or less a decade away. If one is not mistaken a MoU was signed way back.

The Chinese CGIs have a nasty habit of becoming the real things..so no one should be surprised to see JF2.0- -- larger, with reduced RCS through angular design incorporating goodies from J10C and J31.

One is certain to see evolution of J31 into PAFs first medium stealth fighter. In numbers, with local production... JF17 has been truly a pathfinder for your country's aviation industry.

Keep this wise strategy of tight lipped execution. It has served your country very well.

their is no stealth or semi stealth versions of JF-17 sir

PAF's 5th generation fighter, let us call it JF3.0, will be inherting a lot of technology from J20 and J31.
So, even without acquiring J20 as platform, you will have the required capabilities in your particutlar environment.

Without PLAAF acquiring J31 in massive numbers, the platform will too expensive for PAF. The only pragmatic choice would be to work with SAC and CAC and develop JF3.0 and JF2.0 respectively.

The end result will amaze your airforce just like JF1.0 Thunder has done. But a JF3.0 is more than a decade away at least. First a semi stealth fighter to serve your medium platform needs is to materialise.

All the best.

main stealth fighter for PAF will be J-31 not your virtual JF2.0, JF3.0

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

their is no stealth or semi stealth versions of JF-17 sir

Of course there is not for obvious reasons. JF2.0 is not thunder. It is logical follow up towards a medium multirole platform. Since PAF will not be acquiring any J10s... they will need a home built aircraft in this category. It is only called JF2.0 for distinction to Thunder for want of a better word.

their is no stealth or semi stealth versions of JF-17 sir


main stealth fighter for PAF will be J-31 not your virtual JF2.0, JF3.0

You are right from your perspective, kind sir, as in virtual JF2.0 and JF3.0.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Of course there is not for obvious reasons. JF2.0 is not thunder. It is logical follow up towards a medium multirole platform. Since PAF will not be acquiring any J10s... they will need a home built aircraft in this category. It is only called JF2.0 for distinction to Thunder for want of a better word.



You are right from your perspective, kind sir, as in virtual JF2.0 and JF3.0.

fighter development is no that easy you thought, if Pakistan starts a development Medium multi-role platform, it takes 10 to 15 years to complete the project,at this the we will start inducting J-31 so its useless to develop a 4.5 gen

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

fighter development is no that easy you thought, if Pakistan starts a development Medium multi-role platform, it takes 10 to 15 years to complete the project,at this the we will start inducting J-31 so its useless to develop a 4.5 gen

Kind sir, thank you for the reply. I understand your point of much better now.

Thanks!

 

[araz]

PAF's 5th generation fighter, let us call it JF3.0, will be inherting a lot of technology from J20 and J31.
So, even without acquiring J20 as platform, you will have the required capabilities in your particutlar environment.

Without PLAAF acquiring J31 in massive numbers, the platform will too expensive for PAF. The only pragmatic choice would be to work with SAC and CAC and develop JF3.0 and JF2.0 respectively.

The end result will amaze your airforce just like JF1.0 Thunder has done. But a JF3.0 is more than a decade away at least. First a semi stealth fighter to serve your medium platform needs is to materialise.

All the best.

Again this is pure conjecture. I agree some of the technology from the 5th generation fighters will trickle down in to JFT eventually. The question is when? If it too good to be true it generally is not true at all. JFT in its current iteration is a nonstealthy design. Just adding a few tweeks here and there will not turn it into one. Our needs are many and resources limitedand a new project especially a stealthy design will set us back billions of dollars which we dont have. I think we need to let a simple design remain a simple design. Too much tweeking will break it and the end result will be disasterous and very very expensive. If you look at the Chinese design philosophy and indeed what has been done with JAS39 and F16s it will give you an idea about what is possible without breaking the bank or the plane. You will also realize that a lot can be done with a design without meddling around much and chopping and changing that which works.

So what is possible is:
more software upgrades,
better man machine interface,
incorporation of IRST and AESA.
additional hardpoints ,
mounted POD(most likely on the chin),
CFT,
DERs,
Engine with more thrust(RD93MA or WS13/15. which ever is better)
.
What is less likely to happen is:
moving the wheels towards the wings utilizing the body for additional hardpoints
wing enlargement.
General enlargement of the air frame.
a bigger engine
EU sourced engine.

What in my humble opinion is not going to happen at all.
Stealthy design
A

 

[Falcon26]

If the PAF can take the J-31 and mate it with European/Turkish sensors, electronics, avionics, radars and advanced Russian engines, then Pakistan can have a reasonable and cost effective platform to go against the rapid modernization of India. If not, then the TFX is a must for the PAF.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Again this is pure conjecture. I agree some of the technology from the 5th generation fighters will trickle down in to JFT eventually. The question is when? If it too good to be true it generally is not true at all. JFT in its current iteration is a nonstealthy design. Just adding a few tweeks here and there will not turn it into one. Our needs are many and resources limitedand a new project especially a stealthy design will set us back billions of dollars which we dont have. I think we need to let a simple design remain a simple design. Too much tweeking will break it and the end result will be disasterous and very very expensive. If you look at the Chinese design philosophy and indeed what has been done with JAS39 and F16s it will give you an idea about what is possible without breaking the bank or the plane. You will also realize that a lot can be done with a design without meddling around much and chopping and changing that which works.
So what is possible is:
more software upgrades,
better man machine interface,
incorporation of IRST and AESA.
additional hardpoints ,
mounted POD(most likely on the chin),
CFT,
DERs,
Dorsal fin mounted software on the dual seater.
Engine with more thrust(RD93MA or WS13/15. which ever is better)
. What is less likely to happen is:
moving the wheels towards the wings utilizing the body for additional hardpoints
wing enlargement.
General enlargement of the air frame.
a bigger engine
EU sourced engine.
What in my humble opinion is not going to happen at all.
Stealthy design
A

Dear Araz, many thanks for your kind feedback. Highly valued!

You are absolutely correct that Thunder will remain in the present airframe with only upgrades to enhance performance. Totally agree with your analysis there.

However, how are you going to replace your medium level platform? This needs to happen in due time.
What is your take on that?

Regarding stealth fighter well it is going to be Chinese with local assembly/production. Subsystems are a different story.

I guess my calling JF2.0 or JF3.0 was perhaps confusing. I, of course, was not referring to Thunder but future joint fighters for medium and stealth configuration.

 

[Mugwop]

I'd say lets go for J-10B it's single engine and cheaper to operate plus we won't have to wait til 2020 to get it.

no i will argue J20 is more superior than j31
because china also said J20 not for sale just like america said F22 not for sale

J20 is way to big for PAF, J-31 is medium sized and well suited for PAF.

 

[Taygibay]

Dorsal fin mounted software on the dual seater.

Sorry Araz mate but what?
There must be a mistake in your sentence; that means nothing!
Software is immaterial and doesn't require a specific location.

Have a good day, Tay.