SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[zhang5521]

I would not rely too much on the reports of Carlo Kopp. He is very biased and unreliable.

so........that is ..what .i mean......so .....thankyou to talk whith me .....with my so bad english....e ...thank you .and.good .night.byebye

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China and Pakistan are starting to negotiate about the 5th gen aircraft (J-31).

Here China is demonstrating the HMD of J-31 to the military representatives from Pakistan in the Zhuhai airshow.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I think J31 stealth ability should be more powerful than the J20 fighter, because J20 fighter jets that are larger in size and has a duck wing. (we Chinese told the little front wings called duck wing). These are not conducive to stealth, and J31 smaller size, appearance is more concise, using conventional layout mode, stealth capability may be better than J20, but the J20 stealth ability is also very good, some time ago, J20 fighters mounted angle reflector photo exposure, this means that in the case of using the corner reflector, J20 can realize the radar cannot detect the target, but I still believe J31 stealth ability is more powerful, the Chinese like J20 is out of his fly farther, and bomb more, because of China's land area is very big,

J-20 does have the flexible canard. Unlike the fixed canard of Mig 1.44, so it doesn't really affect its stealth.

Please, the SAC fans should stop dissing the CAC products, and the PLAAF will clearly choose J-20 over J-31, and SAC should now focus on the 5th gen naval based aircraft instead of insisting for a losing battle.

 

[zhang5521]

why admire the duplicate when the original looks so much better?

We discuss the stealth fighter, the Indians still play no one cares LCA

 

[zhang5521]

J20 is more indigenous than j31.
Those J 31 seems to be a direct copy of F 35.
Anyway J 31 is a good evolving fighter.But comparing it with F 35 or F22 is a joke. Americans have top notch futuristic technologies.Russians only issue is their lack of money or they are the only one that can compete American Aero industry .Chinese are not developed that much .Perhaps in future.
Pakistan will induct these fighters and probably J 20 also.But they will get a decent squadron only after 2025.Prime reason is it is still developing and till now Chinese fighters didnt face a real war scenario.Then more tests is needed.
And at last maintaining afifth generation fighter need deep pockets.Pakistan can do it only if they speed up their economy as soon as possible.
Lets see.

j31 is better than lca ，that is enough

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

and then ,i say that...
WS10 engine and WS10A engine belongs to China's Taihang series engine, but they are completely different engine, the core of the WS10 machine learning technology is AL31F, but the WS10A core engine technology learning is a F110 engine. But they thrust is 12.5 tons to 13.2 tons
...e........
I don't know my grammar right.

The WS-10A engine and the AF-31F engine have completely different design layout, hence they are not related.

You talk about WS-10 is a copy of AL-31F, whereas WS-10A is a copy F110, that's not true, it has already been debunked.

I know explaining with you in Chinese is better for understanding, but it is against the forum rules.

 

[he-man]

The WS-10A engine and the AF-31F engine have completely different design layout, hence they are not related.

You talk about WS-10 is a copy of AL-31F, whereas WS-10A is a copy F110, that's not true, it has already been debunked.

I know explaining with you in Chinese is better for understanding, but it is against the forum rules.

Problem is no one knows whats the truth.

 

[he-man]

I would not rely too much on the reports of Carlo Kopp. He is very biased and unreliable.

His analysis is shitty but facts are 100% verifiable

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Problem is no one knows whats the truth.

The WS-10 core design has been inspired by the gas turbine version of the F100 engine.

But he mentioned about AL-31F and F110, which are not really involved on this issue.

It is not a secret, China's early engine has been greatly inspired by the superior foreign engine, but still he has pointed out the wrong sources, so i was merely correcting his mistakes.

 

[he-man]

The WS-10 core design has been inspired by the gas turbine version of the F100 engine.

But he mentioned about AL-31F and F110, which are not related.

It is not a secret, China's early engine has been greatly inspired by the superior foreign engine, but still he has pointed out the wrong sources, so i was merely correcting his mistakes.

Let me point here that western engine design is not superior and certainly not the f-100 which is old just like al-31f and both having similar low t:w ratios.

The difference is between the materials used in newer western engines prolonging the life cycle.
Russia has reached 4000 hours with 117s ,,,,can u tell about chinese engine??

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Let me point here that western engine design is not superior and certainly not the f-100 which is old just like al-31f and both having similar low t:w ratios.

The difference is between the materials used in newer western engines prolonging the life cycle.
Russia has reached 4000 hours with 117s ,,,,can u tell about chinese engine??

Still, we have studied the F100 engine's core design since the 1980s, so our fundamental knowledge for the modern turbofan engine basically came from this.

However, it doesn't mean that we will stick at that level of knowledge forever.

Our 155kN WS-10G derived from this fundamental knowledge, and our coming 180kN WS-15 was also derived from this fundamental knowledge.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Russia has reached 4000 hours with 117s ,,,,can u tell about chinese engine??

Again, 4000 hours is the overall lifespan, not the overhaul lifespan.

Our WS-10 engine is 1000 hours overhaul, which means the overall lifespan will be close to 3000 hours. So the late WS-10 variants will be even longer for sure.

 

[he-man]

Again, 4000 hours is the overall lifespan, not the overhaul lifespan.

Our WS-10 engine is 1000 hours overhaul, which means the overall lifespan will be close to 3000 hours. So the late WS-10 variants will be even longer for sure.

Thats debatable.
Till figures are out ,,we cannot be sure but yeah 3000 hours is good.

But new 117 engine of pakfa should approach 6000 hours i think.

 

[he-man]

Still, we have studied the F100 engine's core design since the 1980s, so our fundamental knowledge for the modern turbofan engine basically came from this.

However, it doesn't mean that we will stick at that level of knowledge forever.

Our 155kN WS-10G derived from this fundamental knowledge, and our coming 180kN WS-15 was also derived from this fundamental knowledge.

I still don't believe u can make a 180 kn engine with meaningful t/w
Russians made al-41 20 years back but had lot of weight.

p and w f-135 has 190-200 kn and it was made only few years back so china cannot take such a leap so fast.
It will take 10 years imho.

140 KN is possible as u had al-31 and f-100 as template while 155-180 kn would be new designs and hence require extensive testing

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Thats debatable.
Till figures are out ,,we cannot be sure but yeah 3000 hours is good.

But new 117 engine of pakfa should approach 6000 hours i think.

The WS-10 engine has reached 1000 hours overhaul since 2005.

Over 40 days of non-stop ground testing, so 40*24=960 hours, so it is about 1000 hours.

In a total lifespan of a engine, you need to overhaul it twice (3 x 1000 = 3000) before it is completely scrapped.

Here is the Chinese document about the WS-10 engine.