SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[SQ8]

I'm asking my fellow whether FC31 could super cruise with WS13, he said yes. he said he is not good at English, do I have to talk with him in Chinese.

You can help him translate his replies and assist in English.

 

[Last Samuri]

Very interesting plane the j31=

Description as the low end of China's stealth programme ie smaller more economical fighters than the j20 which is China answer to raptor and not for export.

I understand the j10.cost 40 million each and thunders. Only 20 million.

We under stand that the pak fa will be 100 million range and f35 more than this. Amount.

My guess j31, export version Wil be some where between 50/70 million each.

Would you guys agree.

I understand there is only one prototype flying suggesting a decade of testing yet

 

[zhang5521]

No forgiveness needed. It helps us understand if you are saying something interesting. You may use google translate for difficult words if needed. A good idea would be to coordinate with other Chinese members if you have something interesting that you are not able to post.

Chinese is not understood well by a lot of users on this forum from other countries which is why we chose english as the official language to allow for common communication.

thank you for reminding me,
Before I published a news from China, the news that a WS13 engine developed, has begun to enter the preparation of the production stage, and the WS13 engine thrust is medium thrust engine, because China already have WS10 and WS10A and WS15 three kinds of high thrust engines, while WS13 is used for equipment JF17 and J31 such a medium fighter, so do not need a lot of thrust, but must take the size is reduced, and because J31 is equipped with two WS13 engine, so the total thrust is bigger than F35, but like JF17, J31 is also a medium fighter, so they like F35 don't need to have supersonic cruise capability, they do not need long range combat, so do not need to have the ability to supercruise, only large range fighter just need that kind of ability, while the J31 only need to complete a good distance and near distance operational tasks can be, there is a J31 using two WS13 engine, can realize the super maneuver capability.
do you understand me?i'msorry ,my english is so bad.hehehe

 

[SQ8]

Very interesting plane the j31=

Description as the low end of China's stealth programme ie smaller more economical fighters than the j20 which is China answer to raptor and not for export.

I understand the j10.cost 40 million each and thunders. Only 20 million.

We under stand that the pak fa will be 100 million range and f35 more than this. Amount.

My guess j31, export version Wil be some where between 50/70 million each.

Would you guys agree.

I understand there is only one prototype flying suggesting a decade of testing yet

The F-35 is the supposed low end of the Stealth range as well for the US.. even though that is a rather relative and ironic term. In addition, the costs take into account labour costs as well. the quiet and ignored revolution in the Chinese manufacturing industry is quality control whilst still maintaining its relatively cheaper labour costs. That revolution owes its existence to the surge in multi-national firms producing their products in China.

So the cost in man hours for say a single rivet on the J-20 is easily less than half that of the same on the F-22. A simple widespread example is that the same labour that makes the audio chips for Apple or Samsung also ends up taking that know how and making those chips for Chinese consumer electronic brands. So cost is a very sketchy term to try and judge a products quality these days from China.

The J-31 may be for export but that is not happening anytime soon. The aircraft has a LONG developmental process to go ahead with and I doubt that the Pakistan Air Force is looking at it for the time being. CATIC has its own product on the line for later and that may suit the PAF's budget and timeline requirements.

 

[SQ8]

thank you for reminding me,
Before I published a news from China, the news that a WS13 engine developed, has begun to enter the preparation of the production stage, and the WS13 engine thrust is medium thrust engine, because China already have WS10 and WS10A and WS15 three kinds of high thrust engines, while WS13 is used for equipment JF17 and J31 such a medium fighter, so do not need a lot of thrust, but must take the size is reduced, and because J31 is equipped with two WS13 engine, so the total thrust is bigger than F35, but like JF17, J31 is also a medium fighter, so they like F35 don't need to have supersonic cruise capability, they do not need long range combat, so do not need to have the ability to supercruise, only large range fighter just need that kind of ability, while the J31 only need to complete a good distance and near distance operational tasks can be, there is a J31 using two WS13 engine, can realize the super maneuver capability.
do you understand me?i'msorry ,my english is so bad.hehehe

No problem. While the usage of the RD-93 is a good option and the presence of the RD-93MA development by Klimov will ensure that a powerful engine remains for the J-31 to use.. I believe for now the aircraft may be slightly underpowered for its potential and specifically for Pakistan.. I dont think the J-31 is what they are looking at. While Shenyang institute has been useful in supplying Pakistan in the past (J-6 and Q-5 fighter) there has been a good relationship that has developed between CATIC and Pakistan Air Force through the F-7MP, F-7PG and JF-17 program.. and is likely to continue to dominate future PAF purchases.

 

[zhang5521]

You can help him translate his replies and assist in English.

The F-35 is the supposed low end of the Stealth range as well for the US.. even though that is a rather relative and ironic term. In addition, the costs take into account labour costs as well. the quiet and ignored revolution in the Chinese manufacturing industry is quality control whilst still maintaining its relatively cheaper labour costs. That revolution owes its existence to the surge in multi-national firms producing their products in China.

So the cost in man hours for say a single rivet on the J-20 is easily less than half that of the same on the F-22. A simple widespread example is that the same labour that makes the audio chips for Apple or Samsung also ends up taking that know how and making those chips for Chinese consumer electronic brands. So cost is a very sketchy term to try and judge a products quality these days from China.

The J-31 may be for export but that is not happening anytime soon. The aircraft has a LONG developmental process to go ahead with and I doubt that the Pakistan Air Force is looking at it for the time being. CATIC has its own product on the line for later and that may suit the PAF's budget and timeline requirements.

and then ,i say that...
WS10 engine and WS10A engine belongs to China's Taihang series engine, but they are completely different engine, the core of the WS10 machine learning technology is AL31F, but the WS10A core engine technology learning is a F110 engine. But they thrust is 12.5 tons to 13.2 tons
...e........
I don't know my grammar right.

 

[zhang5521]

No problem. While the usage of the RD-93 is a good option and the presence of the RD-93MA development by Klimov will ensure that a powerful engine remains for the J-31 to use.. I believe for now the aircraft may be slightly underpowered for its potential and specifically for Pakistan.. I dont think the J-31 is what they are looking at. While Shenyang institute has been useful in supplying Pakistan in the past (J-6 and Q-5 fighter) there has been a good relationship that has developed between CATIC and Pakistan Air Force through the F-7MP, F-7PG and JF-17 program.. and is likely to continue to dominate future PAF purchases.

oh...no..no.no.no..my friend ,
Although Chinese and Russia are good friends, but our country is hoping to become a superpower, so we will not allow our plane is always filled with other countries of the engine, we must develop their own engine, so we can be at ease, because in this way we can 100% domestic J31 fighter, so that once a war the outbreak, we don't need to rely on anyone will be able to produce their own fighter, this is we have been pursuing, and also we have part of the realization of the goal, in addition, China treat Pakistan as is the best of friends, so Chinese also hope that Pakistan can not be Russia pinned down, because the relationship between Russia and India is also good, so Chinese also hope Pakistan can choose the WS13 engine, so once the Pakistan war needs, so Chinese can fully meet the demand of Pakistan aircraft, and do not need to look at the Russian idea.

 

[SQ8]

oh...no..no.no.no..my friend ,
Although Chinese and Russia are good friends, but our country is hoping to become a superpower, so we will not allow our plane is always filled with other countries of the engine, we must develop their own engine, so we can be at ease, because in this way we can 100% domestic J31 fighter, so that once a war the outbreak, we don't need to rely on anyone will be able to produce their own fighter, this is we have been pursuing, and also we have part of the realization of the goal, in addition, China treat Pakistan as is the best of friends, so Chinese also hope that Pakistan can not be Russia pinned down, because the relationship between Russia and India is also good, so Chinese also hope Pakistan can choose the WS13 engine, so once the Pakistan war needs, so Chinese can fully meet the demand of Pakistan aircraft, and do not need to look at the Russian idea.

I understand, but think of it as a safety. In case there is not enough time to produce WS-13, the RD-93 can still work to keep the program going. China's slow progress in engines in not related to the design of the engine and China can if it wishes design an engine that can compete with Russian engines easily. China's problem has been with metal alloy manufacturing for engines which has slowed its local engine programs down.

 

[truthseeker2010]

wont it be better for PAF to develop a stealth variant of jf-17, rather than acquiring j-31, due to financial implications, because 5th gen is hell expensive.

 

[zhang5521]

No problem. While the usage of the RD-93 is a good option and the presence of the RD-93MA development by Klimov will ensure that a powerful engine remains for the J-31 to use.. I believe for now the aircraft may be slightly underpowered for its potential and specifically for Pakistan.. I dont think the J-31 is what they are looking at. While Shenyang institute has been useful in supplying Pakistan in the past (J-6 and Q-5 fighter) there has been a good relationship that has developed between CATIC and Pakistan Air Force through the F-7MP, F-7PG and JF-17 program.. and is likely to continue to dominate future PAF purchases.

I think J31 stealth ability should be more powerful than the J20 fighter, because J20 fighter jets that are larger in size and has a duck wing. (we Chinese told the little front wings called duck wing). These are not conducive to stealth, and J31 smaller size, appearance is more concise, using conventional layout mode, stealth capability may be better than J20, but the J20 stealth ability is also very good, some time ago, J20 fighters mounted angle reflector photo exposure, this means that in the case of using the corner reflector, J20 can realize the radar cannot detect the target, but I still believe J31 stealth ability is more powerful, the Chinese like J20 is out of his fly farther, and bomb more, because of China's land area is very big,

 

[SQ8]

I think J31 stealth ability should be more powerful than the J20 fighter, because J20 fighter jets that are larger in size and has a duck wing. (we Chinese told the little front wings called duck wing). These are not conducive to stealth, and J31 smaller size, appearance is more concise, using conventional layout mode, stealth capability may be better than J20, but the J20 stealth ability is also very good, some time ago, J20 fighters mounted angle reflector photo exposure, this means that in the case of using the corner reflector, J20 can realize the radar cannot detect the target, but I still believe J31 stealth ability is more powerful, the Chinese like J20 is out of his fly farther, and bomb more, because of China's land area is very big,

The J-20 design may have good stealth from the front.. so if it approaches a target it may have a small radar size. Which is why I have said again and again that the J-20 is more of an interceptor like the Russian Mig-31 rather than like the F-22. This does not mean that it is not stealthy, but that the J-20 is designed for a different type of combat. It is going to be a very effective strike aircraft along with an excellent interceptor.

The J-31 may have better stealth but not much can be said unless these aircraft go onto a Radar testing area where the values can be checked.

 

[zhang5521]

I understand, but think of it as a safety. In case there is not enough time to produce WS-13, the RD-93 can still work to keep the program going. China's slow progress in engines in not related to the design of the engine and China can if it wishes design an engine that can compete with Russian engines easily. China's problem has been with metal alloy manufacturing for engines which has slowed its local engine programs down.

China aviation industry group, said a news conference: WS13 has completed the research and development work, ready to open the production line has entered the stage, while the J31 fighter at least until 2018 or so can be delivered for use, in 2018, the WS13 engine is very safe and reliable, stable and mature.
don't worry

 

[zhang5521]

The J-20 design may have good stealth from the front.. so if it approaches a target it may have a small radar size. Which is why I have said again and again that the J-20 is more of an interceptor like the Russian Mig-31 rather than like the F-22. This does not mean that it is not stealthy, but that the J-20 is designed for a different type of combat. It is going to be a very effective strike aircraft along with an excellent interceptor.

The J-31 may have better stealth but not much can be said unless these aircraft go onto a Radar testing area where the values can be checked.

China has been on these data is very secure, radar size J31 how we also can make nothing of it, but an Australian research institutions have done a calculation, stealth performance obtained J20 and J31 radar data of specific size, I forgot, but stealthy performance is good, after all, the use of corner reflector to enlarge his radar size needed in the test phase, or flight staff also not detect the aircraft.

 

[SQ8]

China has been on these data is very secure, radar size J31 how we also can make nothing of it, but an Australian research institutions have done a calculation, stealth performance obtained J20 and J31 radar data of specific size, I forgot, but stealthy performance is good, after all, the use of corner reflector to enlarge his radar size needed in the test phase, or flight staff also not detect the aircraft.

I would not rely too much on the reports of Carlo Kopp. He is very biased and unreliable.

 

[zhang5521]

I would not rely too much on the reports of Carlo Kopp. He is very biased and unreliable.

i'm so sorry. my english is bad. so i cannot experse my iad

I would not rely too much on the reports of Carlo Kopp. He is very biased and unreliable.

So, many languages I can not express ah, sorry,