SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[araz]

A fighter project of this scale, cannot be brought to light as a rabbit out of a hat. In any case, feel free to disagree. This was my opinion anyway.

And even in case of JF-17, all first batches of manpower for JF-17 project was trained in China, maintenance included. And there is only a certain portion of the aircraft that we are right now able to build within the country, not even 100% of it. And this is to not even take into account the avionics end. And JF-17 right now, without the AESA is a 3.5 aircraft. You're referring to a low-observable aircraft program here. Can sort the math out yourself.

I think there is a lot more going on than you are aware of. I agree that Paklands lack basic infrastructure but they have always been able to procure subcomponents and make products themselves. So avionics are now being assembled in house. This is not ideal but this is how we can and do things. You cannot say that since we do not have X or Y capability, we cannot do ABandC. The problem is that there are quite a few unknowns which none of us are aware of. Progress ha been made since we started manufacturing JFTs and things will advance in spite of our inabilities t ocarry out ceertain functions. So as I said we will have to wait and see as none of us myself included is fully aware of what stage the project is at.
A

 

[LKJ86]

I think there is a lot more going on than you are aware of. I agree that Paklands lack basic infrastructure but they have always been able to procure subcomponents and make products themselves. So avionics are now being assembled in house. This is not ideal but this is how we can and do things. You cannot say that since we do not have X or Y capability, we cannot do ABandC. The problem is that there are quite a few unknowns which none of us are aware of. Progress ha been made since we started manufacturing JFTs and things will advance in spite of our inabilities t ocarry out ceertain functions. So as I said we will have to wait and see as none of us myself included is fully aware of what stage the project is at.
A

Only when face sanctions from outside, you will have to learn to do everything by yourself, like China, Iran, or North Korea...
Otherwise, India would be a very good example.

 

[mdmm]

Thank you for reply.Kindly provide details, what means by "" Now Project Azm = (J31 with WS19 engine and European/Chinese avionics)"""
One more questions.
No body like a war .Pakistan will fight if attacked by India or Afghanistan.Kindly provide information about , for how many days of ammunition /arms do Pakistan and India , have??

 

[MastanKhan]

A fighter project of this scale, cannot be brought to light as a rabbit out of a hat. In any case, feel free to disagree. This was my opinion anyway.

And even in case of JF-17, all first batches of manpower for JF-17 project was trained in China, maintenance included. And there is only a certain portion of the aircraft that we are right now able to build within the country, not even 100% of it. And this is to not even take into account the avionics end. And JF-17 right now, without the AESA is a 3.5 aircraft. You're referring to a low-observable aircraft program here. Can sort the math out yourself.

Hi,

Thank you for your comments and post---.

For 30 plus years we have been talking about war and being prepared for war with india and yet we still are 100-150 aircraft short of our requirements---.

And why is that---because of all the fiascos---not making the decision at the right time---picking the wrong aircraft---too much dependence on good working relationship and not understanding the technical tactical aspect of the political decision making---investing in an aircraft and finding no EW package at the last minute---investing in the aircraft and finding out no engine for the aircraft---advertising for an air superiority fighter and giving us a strike platform in return---.

And these issues were of a 3.5 - 4 th gen aircraft---. When you proceed to building a 5th gen aircraft---the issues are a 100 times more---.

Look at the Paf---it tested the most POTENT 4.5 gen aircraft the RAFALE in early 2000's and called it not up to their standards---till they saw it in operation in Libya and then they changed their minds---but too late---.

How can you trust this organization---?

 

[denel]

Hi,

Thank you for your comments and post---.

For 30 plus years we have been talking about war and being prepared for war with india and yet we still are 100-150 aircraft short of our requirements---.

And why is that---because of all the fiascos---not making the decision at the right time---picking the wrong aircraft---too much dependence on good working relationship and not understanding the technical tactical aspect of the political decision making---investing in an aircraft and finding no EW package at the last minute---investing in the aircraft and finding out no engine for the aircraft---advertising for an air superiority fighter and giving us a strike platform in return---.

And these issues were of a 3.5 - 4 th gen aircraft---. When you proceed to building a 5th gen aircraft---the issues are a 100 times more---.

Look at the Paf---it tested the most POTENT 4.5 gen aircraft the RAFALE in early 2000's and called it not up to their standards---till they saw it in operation in Libya and then they changed their minds---but too late---.

How can you trust this organization---?

As others have said, when the basic building blocks are not there for a foundation, it will be a knock down kit assembly with a relabeled chinese unit

 

[kursed]

Look at the Paf---it tested the most POTENT 4.5 gen aircraft the RAFALE in early 2000's and called it not up to their standards---till they saw it in operation in Libya and then they changed their minds---but too late---.

How can you trust this organization---?

Don't have a choice, to be honest. =) I do trust my pilot friends and the absolute hard work they put in, day in/day out.

 

[MastanKhan]

Don't have a choice, to be honest. =) I do trust my pilot friends and the absolute hard work they put in, day in/day out.

Hi,

You are absolutely correct---. The issue is not about the pilots---it has never been about the pilots---but it is about the Managers---.

 

[araz]

Only when face sanctions from outside, you will have to learn to do everything by yourself, like China, Iran, or North Korea...
Otherwise, India would be a very good example.

This remains a problem with all small countries with limited budget. They get influenced by bigger suppliers and arms are a means of exerting influence. This is why aid is a curse because you are given aid to come under the influence of other powers and once you avail it the trap is set. Subcomponent manufacturing/ subassembly is not as hazardous as buying full systems as most companies will continue to sell components.
A

 

[MastanKhan]

As others have said, when the basic building blocks are not there for a foundation, it will be a knock down kit assembly with a relabeled chinese unit

Hi,

I have the same feeling about the J31 as I had for the Rafale---. After a few years Paf will say---we did not realize the aircraft would be this good---.

I for one would like to find out what the shortcomings in the J31 are---because the Paf has claimed to hide behind this answer one too many times and later found out to get egg on their faces---.

This is also an excuse for a lack of bribe or not enough kick back---and it is also a case of being what the true need is and the true capability of the aircraft---in case of rejecting the Hawkeye in 80's---telling the US it was not worth it---till they later found out how fckd up the Paf's assessment was---.

Or now going for all the Mirage 3 / 5 all around the world and getting them like there is no tomorrow and yet not going after the Mirage F1---.

Now don't get me wrong---a mirage 3 /5 upgraded with the right EW package is still a hell of a strike platform-.

The lack of predictability in the Paf from one CEO to the next CEO is not conducive to the running of a fighting force as to what he is going to do---.

 

[denel]

Hi,

I have the same feeling about the J31 as I had for the Rafale---. After a few years Paf will say---we did not realize the aircraft would be this good---.

I for one would like to find out what the shortcomings in the J31 are---because the Paf has claimed to hide behind this answer one too many times and later found out to get egg on their faces---.

This is also an excuse for a lack of bribe or not enough kick back---and it is also a case of being what the true need is and the true capability of the aircraft---in case of rejecting the Hawkeye in 80's---telling the US it was not worth it---till they later found out how fckd up the Paf's assessment was---.

Or now going for all the Mirage 3 / 5 all around the world and getting them like there is no tomorrow and yet not going after the Mirage F1---.

Now don't get me wrong---a mirage 3 /5 upgraded with the right EW package is still a hell of a strike platform-.

The lack of predictability in the Paf from one CEO to the next CEO is not conducive to the running of a fighting force as to what he is going to do---.

Simply put - NO FUTURE VISION. We have said it too often enough.

Only when face sanctions from outside, you will have to learn to do everything by yourself, like China, Iran, or North Korea...
Otherwise, India would be a very good example.

Correct, that is same for us; Sanctions were excellent for us!. I am not joking, it made us stand on our 2 feet but our leaders had a good vision and already took precautionary measures to make sure key industries were there to support plus institutions.

 

[Silicon0000]

I am not an expert, infact didn't belong to this field but it looks me interesting so that's why asking. Don't know which thread would be best to put on so asking here.

I have few question .....

Why fighter aircrafts and specially FGF has air engine inlets on the front lower side and not on the upper side like B2 bomber? ...... Is it reduces the RCS or not? And what are the pro and cons?

By the way there should be a dedicated thread for foolish ideas comes to people mind from nowhere

 

[MastanKhan]

By the way there should be a dedicated thread for foolish ideas comes to people mind from nowhere

Hi,

Ask @Dubious to create a sticky for all crazy questions---.

 

[Dubious]

Hi,

Ask @Dubious to create a sticky for all crazy questions---.

itna mera kaam matt bar hain!

 

[Silicon0000]

itna mera kaam matt bar hain!

Jahan itna barha hai wahan kuch aur sahi

 

[Imran Khan]

i think we should wait for j31