SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[LKJ86]

Why fighter aircrafts and specially FGF has air engine inlets on the front lower side and not on the upper side like B2 bomber? ...... Is it reduces the RCS or not? And what are the pro and cons?

It means you basically choose to give up the fighter's maneuverability.

 

[Dazzler]

For PLAN?

 

[gambit]

Why fighter aircrafts and specially FGF has air engine inlets on the front lower side and not on the upper side like B2 bomber? ...... Is it reduces the RCS or not? And what are the pro and cons?

It is for 'angle of attack' (AOA).

In air combat maneuver (ACM), the pitch up (nose up or pulling back the stick) is a common action. Look at the F-16 here...

In this maneuver, if the intake is on the backbone section of the jet, there would be almost no airflow to the intake, choking the engine.

With the B-2, the jet was not designed to have this kind of maneuvers, so for radar cross section (RCS) reduction, the intakes can be located topside.

 

[Silicon0000]

It is for 'angle of attack' (AOA).

In air combat maneuver (ACM), the pitch up (nose up or pulling back the stick) is a common action. Look at the F-16 here...

In this maneuver, if the intake is on the backbone section of the jet, there would be almost no airflow to the intake, choking the engine.

With the B-2, the jet was not designed to have this kind of maneuvers, so for radar cross section (RCS) reduction, the intakes can be located topside.

Thanks

 

[Ark_Angel]

Hi,

I have the same feeling about the J31 as I had for the Rafale---. After a few years Paf will say---we did not realize the aircraft would be this good---.

I for one would like to find out what the shortcomings in the J31 are---because the Paf has claimed to hide behind this answer one too many times and later found out to get egg on their faces---.

This is also an excuse for a lack of bribe or not enough kick back---and it is also a case of being what the true need is and the true capability of the aircraft---in case of rejecting the Hawkeye in 80's---telling the US it was not worth it---till they later found out how fckd up the Paf's assessment was---.

Or now going for all the Mirage 3 / 5 all around the world and getting them like there is no tomorrow and yet not going after the Mirage F1---.

Now don't get me wrong---a mirage 3 /5 upgraded with the right EW package is still a hell of a strike platform-.

The lack of predictability in the Paf from one CEO to the next CEO is not conducive to the running of a fighting force as to what he is going to do---.

Sir the main reason we didn’t opt for the J-31 till yet is that it has not been commmitted to by the PLAAF/PLAN. After the Project Super-7 experience when the Chinese ditched us at the last moment when they had committed to Buy 200 of the Jets and in the end walked off placed a lot of pressure on PAF Fiscal domain. Along with that numerous other factors have had been a bitter experience for PAF. JF-17 project suffered numerous Timeline delays, Capability gaps due to Chinese backing out. Since we learnt the extremely hard way, PAF will only commit to an A/C duly committed to and inducted with in the Chinese Military Machine. Had it not been for the Thunder experience we could have seen PAF committing to the J-31, but reality struck us hard!

 

[fatman17]

Sir the main reason we didn’t opt for the J-31 till yet is that it has not been commmitted to by the PLAAF/PLAN. After the Project Super-7 experience when the Chinese ditched us at the last moment when they had committed to Buy 200 of the Jets and in the end walked off placed a lot of pressure on PAF Fiscal domain. Along with that numerous other factors have had been a bitter experience for PAF. JF-17 project suffered numerous Timeline delays, Capability gaps due to Chinese backing out. Since we learnt the extremely hard way, PAF will only commit to an A/C duly committed to and inducted with in the Chinese Military Machine. Had it not been for the Thunder experience we could have seen PAF committing to the J-31, but reality struck us hard!

They are going with J20, HST, Pakistan opted for the Super Sabre which morphed into the JF17, which BTW China has not inducted also, so nothing stops the PAF from taking over the FC31 project which is in advanced prototype stage, of course PAF will look to ring changes into this project to configure to its needs and makes absolute sense. why reinvent the wheel aka Project Azm.

 

[Ark_Angel]

They are going with J20, HST, Pakistan opted for the Super Sabre which morphed into the JF17, which BTW China has not inducted also, so nothing stops the PAF from taking over the FC31 project which is in advanced prototype stage, of course PAF will look to ring changes into this project to configure to its needs and makes absolute sense. why reinvent the wheel aka Project Azm.

Sir that’s what has been mentioned above. China had committed to 200 Super-7s aka JF-17s at the onset of the project. 150 were committed to by the PAF which will now be enlarged to 250. When the Chinese backed out the per unit cost increased along with multiple other factors like commonality of Platform, PLAAF input etc. Which had left PAF in a limbo. There were multitude of other factors which can’t probably be mentioned here. This particular experience has left PAF scarred on not to commit to any Non-PLAAF A/C or any project which is not committed to by their own Military. Cost mitigation being one of the reasons and continuous upgrades by the Chinese for their own Hardware another. Connection to the Chinese Fighter Eco System will be one of the objectives in any future acquisitions be it J-10C or J-20(subject to export) or any other Chinese A/C. Coming over to AZM from the Knowledge that I have, there is a major Chinese Expertise coming in, along with that Turkish and A European Defence Player. PAF is vying for Total independence by this project not dependent on any single country/vendor that’s what Thunder has taught us. Slowly and gradually we aim to reach there. As far as short to medium term timeframe we might see a 5G Plane with us before AZM. AZM is long term.

 

[Nasr]

The main issue with J-31s is the engines. There cannot be a repeat of what went on during the Thunder development program. China has been working on indigenous engines for quite sometime now, and the anticipation is that their hard work will bare fruit. Whether the J-31's power plant would be ready by the time the aircraft is certified as combat ready, is anyone's guess. However it is imperative that Pakistan Air Force take a decision on whether they want to pursue the J-31 program or not. In my view, the power-plant issue needs resolution. When there is a viable engine, that has a long life-cycle, generates considerable amount of power required for Gen-5 Stealth Aircraft and can be assimilated into Pakistan Aeronautical Complex capacity. Then Pakistan Air Force has the realistic probability to pursue the J-31 program. Besides the power-plant, there is the avionics package, the electronic warfare system and of course the lethality of combat jet, it's missiles.

I do believe that Pakistan Air Force, investing it's time, experience and funds on the J-31s, sufficiently enough, would come out with a 5th-Gen Stealth Combat Jet, the likes of which even the Shenyang Corporation could conceive. Real war-fighting experience thrown into the mix, is what makes the fighter-jet, lethal. One only has to look at the success story of F-16s, nearly 4000 aircraft manufactured and operated by so many countries.

 

[khanasifm]

Sir that’s what has been mentioned above. China had committed to 200 Super-7s aka JF-17s at the onset of the project. 150 were committed to by the PAF which will now be enlarged to 250. When the Chinese backed out the per unit cost increased along with multiple other factors like commonality of Platform, PLAAF input etc. Which had left PAF in a limbo. There were multitude of other factors which can’t probably be mentioned here. This particular experience has left PAF scarred on not to commit to any Non-PLAAF A/C or any project which is not committed to by their own Military. Cost mitigation being one of the reasons and continuous upgrades by the Chinese for their own Hardware another. Connection to the Chinese Fighter Eco System will be one of the objectives in any future acquisitions be it J-10C or J-20(subject to export) or any other Chinese A/C. Coming over to AZM from the Knowledge that I have, there is a major Chinese Expertise coming in, along with that Turkish and A European Defence Player. PAF is vying for Total independence by this project not dependent on any single country/vendor that’s what Thunder has taught us. Slowly and gradually we aim to reach there. As far as short to medium term timeframe we might see a 5G Plane with us before AZM. AZM is long term.

Nothing of the sort read paf history book it states everything no need for creating dramas

 

[Ark_Angel]

Nothing of the sort read paf history book it states everything no need for creating dramas

You may continue to believe your literature. I’ll stick to mine. Thanks.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You may continue to believe your literature. I’ll stick to mine. Thanks.

JF-17 is not based on previous upgrades of F-7 or super7 projects, its is based on canceled Soviet project of MIG-33 (unrelated to Mig-29 versions) @Ark_Angel

 

[Ark_Angel]

JF-17 is not based on previous upgrades of F-7 or super7 projects, its is based on canceled Soviet project of MIG-33 (unrelated to Mig-29 versions) @Ark_Angel

We are talking about Designation of the Project. JF-17 project designation was altered in 01. Previously it was known as Super-7 in the AF. Period.

 

[Ultima Thule]

We are talking about Designation of the Project. JF-17 project designation was altered in 01. Previously it was known as Super-7 in the AF. Period.

its have roots from super7 project but you're totally wrong after the termination from USA this super7 project was long dead and 1995 China purchase a design of single engine MIG-33 from Russia and JF-17 design based on Mig-33 rather then a super7, you're newbie here you need to research lot about JF-17 project, and last watch you tongue, did i abuse you @Ark_Angel

 

[python-000]

For PLAN?

I think Pakistan Air Force & Navy need to forget about project AZM & go for J-31 at immediate basses because it will

 

[Shabi1]

I think Pakistan Air Force & Navy need to forget about project AZM & go for J-31 at immediate basses because it will

There is a strong chance that AZM end up being customized J-31. Already acknowledged China is doing Azm airframe work as they have better infrastructure to do it faster and cheaper, Pakistan will do system integration and software part. Even quoted timeline of 2025 for both jets is same.