Saab Gripen ‘Rips Apart’ Chinese J-11 Fighters In War Games; Experts Call Them ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Rafales

[GumNaam]

India’s Rafale fighter jets

​

Amid the ongoing standoff between India and China at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh, experts have started speculating how Indian Rafales will fare against the Chinese aircraft, especially with their fifth-generation J-20.

don't get those rectal orgasms just yet, if the JF17 block 2 can butcher the rafale, imagine what the J11 or the JF17 block 3 will do to baby rafale....

now shut up and sit down.

 

[Blacklight]

A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes.


Details of the Exercise Falcon Strike 2015, held at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base for two weeks in mid-November 2015, the first-ever joint exercise between the Chinese and Thai air forces, were revealed in 2019.

While the Chinese PLA Air Force (PLAAF) brought J-11 to the wargame, the Thai Air Force deployed Swedish Saab JAS-39C/D Gripens, though it also operates the American F-16s.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.


This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

The Saab JAS 39 Gripen is a Swedish fourth-generation single-engine multirole fighter jet that took its first flight in 1988 and entered service in 1996. With a speed of Mach 2, the Gripens have been sold to six nations across Central Europe, South Africa, and Southeast Asia.

The C/D model that the Thailand Air Force operates, is a NATO-compatible version with extended capabilities in terms of armament, electronics, etc. which can be also refueled in flight.
On the other hand, China’s J-11 fighter is based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27. The J-11 is a twin-engine jet that took its first flight in 1998.

​

A Thai Royal Air Force Saab Gripen. (via Gripen News)

​

With its multiple variants and upgrades like the missile approach warning system (MAWS), the improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles, the J-11s have become a significant part of the Chinese Air Force with more than 400 in service while the Navy operates around 70 of the fighters.
The EurAsian Times earlier reported how China is continuing research and development of the J-11 fighter, which might affect the future of its J-10 aircraft.
SAAB Gripens Destroy Chinese J-11s

Across seven days of the exercise, the Chinese jets gave a subpar performance, leading many analysts to cast doubts over China’s aerial capabilities.
During the first two days of the war game, the powerful J-11s shot down 16 Gripens in a visual-range battle with no loss.

Reports suggest that the Thai Gripen was armed with AIM-9 infrared-guided missiles and an internal cannon for close-range combat while the J-11s were armed with infrared-guided short-range missiles — the PL-8s.

​

A PLAAF J-11 flying from an airbase in western China, in February 2018. (via Twitter)

​

However, on the following days, as the game shifted to beyond-visual-range engagements, the Gripen armed with AIM-120 medium-range missiles proved to be a far better fighter than the J-11 with its own medium-range missiles, possibly PL-12s.
The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.
Interestingly, military analysts observed that Gripens outperformed the J-11s in terms of the range given how 88% of the Thai kills occurred at a range of at least 19 miles, while the Chinese scored just 14% of their kills at the same range.
The Gripens also scored 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles where the J-11s scored no kills. The Aviation website Alert 5 noted how the Chinese pilots had poor situational awareness.
“Too much focus was on the front of the aircraft rather than all around. In phases of the war game where J-11s escorted other planes, there was a lack of coordination,” the website said.
“Chinese pilots were not experienced in avoiding missile shots, their responses were too mechanical and [they] could not judge correctly the evasive techniques for missiles with different ranges,” Alert 5 added.
India Rafales

The struggle of Chinese jets against the fourth-generation Gripen has thrilled Indian military analysts given the Indian Air Force now hosts two squadrons of the 4.5 generation French-made Rafales.

​

India’s Rafale fighter jets

​

Amid the ongoing standoff between India and China at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh, experts have started speculating how Indian Rafales will fare against the Chinese aircraft, especially with their fifth-generation J-20.

So when is the mighty IAF doing surgical strikes on China?

 

[alee92nawaz]

A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes.


Details of the Exercise Falcon Strike 2015, held at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base for two weeks in mid-November 2015, the first-ever joint exercise between the Chinese and Thai air forces, were revealed in 2019.

While the Chinese PLA Air Force (PLAAF) brought J-11 to the wargame, the Thai Air Force deployed Swedish Saab JAS-39C/D Gripens, though it also operates the American F-16s.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.


This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

The Saab JAS 39 Gripen is a Swedish fourth-generation single-engine multirole fighter jet that took its first flight in 1988 and entered service in 1996. With a speed of Mach 2, the Gripens have been sold to six nations across Central Europe, South Africa, and Southeast Asia.

The C/D model that the Thailand Air Force operates, is a NATO-compatible version with extended capabilities in terms of armament, electronics, etc. which can be also refueled in flight.
On the other hand, China’s J-11 fighter is based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27. The J-11 is a twin-engine jet that took its first flight in 1998.

​

A Thai Royal Air Force Saab Gripen. (via Gripen News)

​

With its multiple variants and upgrades like the missile approach warning system (MAWS), the improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles, the J-11s have become a significant part of the Chinese Air Force with more than 400 in service while the Navy operates around 70 of the fighters.
The EurAsian Times earlier reported how China is continuing research and development of the J-11 fighter, which might affect the future of its J-10 aircraft.
SAAB Gripens Destroy Chinese J-11s

Across seven days of the exercise, the Chinese jets gave a subpar performance, leading many analysts to cast doubts over China’s aerial capabilities.
During the first two days of the war game, the powerful J-11s shot down 16 Gripens in a visual-range battle with no loss.

Reports suggest that the Thai Gripen was armed with AIM-9 infrared-guided missiles and an internal cannon for close-range combat while the J-11s were armed with infrared-guided short-range missiles — the PL-8s.

​

A PLAAF J-11 flying from an airbase in western China, in February 2018. (via Twitter)

​

However, on the following days, as the game shifted to beyond-visual-range engagements, the Gripen armed with AIM-120 medium-range missiles proved to be a far better fighter than the J-11 with its own medium-range missiles, possibly PL-12s.
The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.
Interestingly, military analysts observed that Gripens outperformed the J-11s in terms of the range given how 88% of the Thai kills occurred at a range of at least 19 miles, while the Chinese scored just 14% of their kills at the same range.
The Gripens also scored 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles where the J-11s scored no kills. The Aviation website Alert 5 noted how the Chinese pilots had poor situational awareness.
“Too much focus was on the front of the aircraft rather than all around. In phases of the war game where J-11s escorted other planes, there was a lack of coordination,” the website said.
“Chinese pilots were not experienced in avoiding missile shots, their responses were too mechanical and [they] could not judge correctly the evasive techniques for missiles with different ranges,” Alert 5 added.
India Rafales

The struggle of Chinese jets against the fourth-generation Gripen has thrilled Indian military analysts given the Indian Air Force now hosts two squadrons of the 4.5 generation French-made Rafales.

​

India’s Rafale fighter jets

​

Amid the ongoing standoff between India and China at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh, experts have started speculating how Indian Rafales will fare against the Chinese aircraft, especially with their fifth-generation J-20.

That's why Indians feared amraams

 

[Surya 1]

Now go back to sleep.

Only this much. Don't you have to say anythi

That's why Indians feared amraams

We don’t give any shit.

So when is the mighty IAF doing surgical strikes on China?

We already did in Galwan.

Hurry up attack on the China and get back your lands lol

Our military did that.

The famed superiority of Su-30MKI died on 27 February 2019.

We know that Su-30MKI are no longer good against PAF and PLAAF.

No superiority of F16 died on 27th Feb.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Isnt it a quite an already well known fact that Russian jets of the 80, 90‘s era such as Su27/30, MiG 29 and their derivatives are lacking in BVR combat against their western counterparts? Would be interesting to see the results of other scenarios though.

During pitch black 2012, Indonesian Sukhois bested Australian F18 in WVR combat but the Sukhois were bested in BVR combat.

Yes. The main problem with Russian fighters is that they are lacking in BVR and Stealth.

This is also the reason why Chinese fighters like J-20 are much superior to anything that Russia has.

 

[Maarkhoor]

A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes.


Details of the Exercise Falcon Strike 2015, held at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base for two weeks in mid-November 2015, the first-ever joint exercise between the Chinese and Thai air forces, were revealed in 2019.

While the Chinese PLA Air Force (PLAAF) brought J-11 to the wargame, the Thai Air Force deployed Swedish Saab JAS-39C/D Gripens, though it also operates the American F-16s.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.


This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

The Saab JAS 39 Gripen is a Swedish fourth-generation single-engine multirole fighter jet that took its first flight in 1988 and entered service in 1996. With a speed of Mach 2, the Gripens have been sold to six nations across Central Europe, South Africa, and Southeast Asia.

The C/D model that the Thailand Air Force operates, is a NATO-compatible version with extended capabilities in terms of armament, electronics, etc. which can be also refueled in flight.
On the other hand, China’s J-11 fighter is based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27. The J-11 is a twin-engine jet that took its first flight in 1998.

​

A Thai Royal Air Force Saab Gripen. (via Gripen News)

​

With its multiple variants and upgrades like the missile approach warning system (MAWS), the improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles, the J-11s have become a significant part of the Chinese Air Force with more than 400 in service while the Navy operates around 70 of the fighters.
The EurAsian Times earlier reported how China is continuing research and development of the J-11 fighter, which might affect the future of its J-10 aircraft.
SAAB Gripens Destroy Chinese J-11s

Across seven days of the exercise, the Chinese jets gave a subpar performance, leading many analysts to cast doubts over China’s aerial capabilities.
During the first two days of the war game, the powerful J-11s shot down 16 Gripens in a visual-range battle with no loss.

Reports suggest that the Thai Gripen was armed with AIM-9 infrared-guided missiles and an internal cannon for close-range combat while the J-11s were armed with infrared-guided short-range missiles — the PL-8s.

​

A PLAAF J-11 flying from an airbase in western China, in February 2018. (via Twitter)

​

However, on the following days, as the game shifted to beyond-visual-range engagements, the Gripen armed with AIM-120 medium-range missiles proved to be a far better fighter than the J-11 with its own medium-range missiles, possibly PL-12s.
The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.
Interestingly, military analysts observed that Gripens outperformed the J-11s in terms of the range given how 88% of the Thai kills occurred at a range of at least 19 miles, while the Chinese scored just 14% of their kills at the same range.
The Gripens also scored 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles where the J-11s scored no kills. The Aviation website Alert 5 noted how the Chinese pilots had poor situational awareness.
“Too much focus was on the front of the aircraft rather than all around. In phases of the war game where J-11s escorted other planes, there was a lack of coordination,” the website said.
“Chinese pilots were not experienced in avoiding missile shots, their responses were too mechanical and [they] could not judge correctly the evasive techniques for missiles with different ranges,” Alert 5 added.
India Rafales

The struggle of Chinese jets against the fourth-generation Gripen has thrilled Indian military analysts given the Indian Air Force now hosts two squadrons of the 4.5 generation French-made Rafales.

​

India’s Rafale fighter jets

​

Amid the ongoing standoff between India and China at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh, experts have started speculating how Indian Rafales will fare against the Chinese aircraft, especially with their fifth-generation J-20.

Indian self felatio at its best.....Before 27/2 SU-30 was their God and Now even before operational use Raphale is their new God.....What a poni God they choose.

 

[Surya 1]

Indian self felatio at its best.....Before 27/2 SU-30 was their God and Now even before operational use Raphale is their new God.....What a poni God they choose.

Now Mig 21 is also our god because they did what was expected from MKIs.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Now Mig 21 is also our god because they did what was expected from MKIs.

They did lols got shot down and pilot beaten up like a sisi...that what you expected from MKI

 

[Surya 1]

They did lols got shot down and pilot beaten up like a sisi...that what you expected from MKI

ASecond generation plane shot down a forth generation plane prior to that. Two of three pilots which were in Pakistan's custody suddenly disappeared.

 

[LeGenD]

ASecond generation plane shot down a forth generation plane prior to that. Two of three pilots which were in Pakistan's custody suddenly disappeared.

This again?

No evidence of the loss of an F-16

Compilation of well-researched independent articles for consultation and reference. [1] February 27, 2019: https://medium.com/dfrlab/in-depth-indian-plane-shot-down-over-pakistan-in-february-91d81881a798 [2] March 2, 2019...

defence.pk

Only an Indian can be persistently delusional or dheet.

 

[blueazure]

SU 30 is a beast and still a top of the line fighter. If Indians couldn't utilize it to full of abilities then it is their fault not that of machine. SU 30 still makes bulk of IAF fleet so if your words are to be taken then IAF is a sitting duck.

i completely agree

modern weapon systems are extremley complicated and required rigorous training , a fifth generation combat a/c in hands of a poorly trained pilot will offer no value in combat rather a burden

we can be sure that IAF would give a bad name to any combat a/c ( be it russian, french or swedish) thanks to sub par training

 

[Windjammer]

The irony of the thread.
India doesn't operates the Gripen and flies the SU-30 which in some instances is close to the J-11.
And in Indian hands, the top notch Russian air superiority fighter has been reduced to something called an AMRAAM dodger.

 

[Foinikas]

Thai Gripen owns Chinese J-11 and somehow it all revolves around how India can destroy Pakistan.

Why do all Indian videos,posts and articles online almost always end up on how good India is? I've noticed that on youtube as well. Indians have been spamming Rafale videos and go to videos about the Greek Rafale order and comment stuff like "oooh India have it as well" or start flaming the Turks out of spite for Pakistan.

 

[Windjammer]

Thai Gripen owns Chinese J-11 and somehow it all revolves around how India can destroy Pakistan.

Why do all Indian videos,posts and articles online almost always end up on how good India is? I've noticed that on youtube as well. Indians have been spamming Rafale videos and go to videos about the Greek Rafale order and comment stuff like "oooh India have it as well" or start flaming the Turks out of spite for Pakistan.

There's an old proverb.....''If you can't beat them, then join them''......but Indians survive on the theory of ...If you can't beat them, then abuse them''..
Now since the Indians have been humiliated by both Pakistan and China, they can only take solace from these types of news....as their Airforce hasn't been able to deliver in all of it's history.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

That's why Indians feared amraams

Modi and IAF are fools for not accepting/grabbing the F-21 offer with both hands.

But IAF won't take the offer because

If IAF loses an SU-30MKI to a PAF F-16 they could blame it on the Russian Hardware but

If IAF loses an F-21 to a PAF-F-16 then IAF's pilot skills or lack thereof would be exposed.