SAAB-2000 Erieye delivery flight to PAF at ATHENS - 27/05/2020

[Arsalan]

According to Usman Shabbir, plane spotters saw 11 Saab 2000s registered with the PAF, and by his estimation the PAF will ultimately have 9 Erieye AEW&C. Anyways, here's the news I promised by end of year everyone...

9 Erieye AEW&C out of 11 spotted planes? Are the missing 2 the ones destroyed or are these additional two that might be acquired as training platforms? I think he must have meant 11 in total to date, 2 destroyed so it means 9 will be part of PAF as AEW&C.

so original order was 6 but then after 2005 earthquake we cut to 4 + 1 x VIP J-019 (which was a very bad idea btw)

in 2012 we had 3 damaged and 1 saved due it being in the air 10040

out of 3 damaged 2 repaired 1 write off (serial 10049) so we were left with only 3 units 10025, 10040 and 10045

2017 onwards we ordered 3 more units which made them 6 in total which matched the original order from 2006, aircraft serial J-038, J-024 and J-062

this SE-057 would make it the 7th Erieye with probably 1 more coming

Quite accurate. However i think there are 2 more coming taking total number to 9! Lets see.

you nailed it sir i have rise this question 1 billion times that 049 is dead but PAF fans here do not want to see reality

There are no questions about one being a write off. I think the confusion is about the remaining two which were brought back to life.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

the radar they have integrated on Embraer ERJ-145 is claimed to be an indigenous AESA radar [not the Erieye Radar] with range only +200Km [source]

Their Phalcons have huge range

 

[Arsalan]

Are you talking about this forum ???


In my opinion Pakistan has now enough AWACS what we need to focus on is these kind of Planes


View attachment 636166

View attachment 636167

I agree. With the AEW&C/AWACS area covered what we need now are some dedicated EW platforms to compliment D-20. We saw their utility in Feb 26/27 stand-off. Now i have said this before, i know that with EW Pods getting lighter and more efficient the world is moving more towards them and away from dedicated EW planes. Also I do think that JF-17 Blk II and Blk III will come with some potent EW PODs and that we may see a limited number of JF-17B working as EW planes but from what we have seen on Feb 27 these are a must for a force like PAF. Very few options available right now and that in fact is an opportunity. We should get this platform from Turkey. We do not need a huge number. 4 to 6 planes will do the job!

Leonardo Seaspray 7xxx series



Its an option for those interested.

I think PN moved on to ATR!

 

[Scorpiooo]

I think there may be some confusion about 'Erieye'.

The SAAB 2000 - which PAF operates is NOT the only (type of) Erieye.

Erieye Radar System is developed by SAAB.

The Erieye is the Radar is mounted on the SAAB 340, SAAB 2000, Embraer 145/R-99 and the Bombardier GlobalEye.

The Bombardier GlobalEye has the Erieye ER.

In the case of PAF, its a coincidence that the Aircraft & Radar system are both SAAB.

I don't know, man. The Wiki link you sent clearly states that it is by SAAB (formally Ericsson Microwave Systems).

View attachment 637125​

How we apparently can differentiate by looking at antenna that is Erieye or Erieye ER ?

Second question why Eyeeri ER cant be mounted on Saab 2000?

Hope you can guide us , as we have limited knowledge in this area

I agree. With the AEW&C/AWACS area covered what we need now are some dedicated EW platforms to compliment D-20. We saw their utility in Feb 26/27 stand-off. Now i have said this before, i know that with EW Pods getting lighter and more efficient the world is moving more towards them and away from dedicated EW planes. Also I do think that JF-17 Blk II and Blk III will come with some potent EW PODs and that we may see a limited number of JF-17B working as EW planes but from what we have seen on Feb 27 these are a must for a force like PAF. Very few options available right now and that in fact is an opportunity. We should get this platform from Turkey. We do not need a huge number. 4 to 6 planes will do the job!


I think PN moved on to ATR!

Sir as you mentioned 27 feb the effectiveness of EW our D20, agree EW pods are usefull but thay have limited range and are effective specially in attach senario but dedicated platform have high range and area coverage, which will yo much help in case defensive approach specifically then you long border with enemy. I will Pakistan need good dedicated plateform in number that can cover our border are with enemy

 

[waz]

May I politely ask members not to discuss other forums. I let the first few posts go as the forum was exceptional and had been around for years. It's gone now. The second one mentioned isn't linked to us at all. Thank you.

 

[ARMalik]

May I politely ask members not to discuss other forums. I let the first few posts go as the forum was exceptional and had been around for years. It's gone now. The second one mentioned isn't linked to us at all. Thank you.

I was a member there, and in all honestly, it was destroyed due to utter unprofessional Admins/owners, and utter negligence, and disdain for members. Members need to stick to PDF, and should be thankful for a high quality forum like PDF.

 

[waz]

I was a member there, and in all honestly, it was destroyed due to utter unprofessional Admins/owners, and utter negligence, and disdain for members. Members need to stick to PDF, and should be thankful for a high quality forum like PDF.

Thank you bro for your compliments. As for what happened, I can't speak about the actions of others and what happened, I do wish them all the best as they all still loved the fatherland.

 

[araz]

Thank you bro for your compliments. As for what happened, I can't speak about the actions of others and what happened, I do wish them all the best as they all still loved the fatherland.

A great reply. A lot of us visited that forum. Like all things in life there were good and bad aspects. As muslims we are encouraged to look at the good and foget the bad . As long as goals are common support and well wishes should be tendered.
Regards
PS: promise my last post on this particular topic.
A

 

[Yasser76]

Much of this debate is going around in circles and many people coming up with same suggestions that have already been answered, so people tend to be ignoring each other or they do not understand many concepts, I will some u with what I have ready from knowlagable posters on here, my own knowledge, open source news reports and fleet info.

1) Seems like PAF has 6 Erieyes (IN SERVICE NOW)
2) New deal could be for 2 or 3. $158 million equates to the same price we paid for 3 extra units previously so 3 would be best bet. This will give us 9 Erieyes. Cost if just for radars, looks like PAF already purchased the planes to convert.
3) Worth remebering that after Kamra attack PAF gained capability to practically rebuild SAAB 200 and integrate the radar itself. Saving us many $ and is the reason we can pull together 3 planes for such a low price. If we ordered these radars on over platforms price will be doubled. This will lead to smaller fleet. So Saab 2000 best option.
4) In addition to Erieye Saabs PAF have 2 "normal" passenger Saabs for transport an to train Erieye pilots without wasting airframe life on the radar versions. This gives us 11 units in total. 9 radar + 2 for transport/training
5) 11 is ideal number for keeping 2 constant in the air. 5 per base plus 1 always in deep overhaul. This covers all of Pakistan. We do not need anymore.
6) Erieye radar range is stated as instrumented range of 450km and detection range of 350km. It's exact range against various aircraft will ALWAYS be secret. Needless to say PAF discovered exact detection ranges of SU-30, Mirage 2000 and MIG-21 during Feb 27th.
7) Current stated detection range is enough to cover aircraft from every single IAF base within IAF Western Command, IAF South Western Command and all of Kashmir, probably from the moment they start their engines. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
8) Erieye has strong EW/ECCM abilities, a SAAB 2000 can easily carry the Erieye radar and anything you may want to put on a Growler.
9) Of course as Falcon 20 airframe becomes older makes sense to use Saab 2000 to carry out dedicated EW support. Maybe PAF looking at this right now, used SAAB 2000s are very cheap on the market and we have training, spares and logistics for this airframe.
10) Turboprop airliner will always have higher availability and cheaper running costs then jets. This is headache IAF now having with placing Phalcon radar on old soviet era transports with 4 large PS-90 engines. They only have 3 of these planes and if at least one being repaired 2 are not enough to sustain a 24/7 patrol. Saab 2000 was designed from the start to be turned around very quickly so regional airlines could make more flights and earn more revenue. No comparison between the two. Also Saab 2000 operating and fuel costs must be at least a third those of the Phalcon.
11) One advantage Erieye gives is is that is is perfectly integrated with NATO Air defence equipment and other AEW assets. Means we can work with any NATO country and other countries that use Western AEW and ground radars like Saudi, UAE, Turkey and Italy. All Pakistani allies. Phalcon, ZDK cannot do this.
12) Of course you can easily ad the ER upgrade to our entire fleet and it is possible this has been done or already being done by PAF. This will enable PAF Erieyes to flay a further distance away and be safer as well as looking deeper into India.
13) No need to build any Saab 2000s. If you search online more then enough laying around for us to buy even 20 airframes and just use these for spares. Also the main need when it comes to spares has always been the engine. This is the AE 2100 which powers C-130J and C-27. Will be plenty of spare for next 30 years.
14) with 9 Erieyes and 4 ZDKs, PAF does not need any more AEW planes. If assuming ZDK covers sea, and 2 Erieyes covering Southern and Northern Pakistan we will have 3 planes constantly in the air most of the time if not all the time. That does not just give you extensive coverage but also a good degree of overlap. Remember these aircraft are also supported by extensive ground radar network, especially TPS-77 radar which easily integrates with Erieye as well as the Skyguard radars and Aspide 2000. All of which are NATO standard. Also worth remebering every AEW plane in the air needs at least 2 fighter planes constantly assigned to defend it. That means you have to dedicate almost 12 fighter to have 2 in the air at anyone time to defend the plane. That is 36 fighters to protect 3 planes. PAF will be hard pressed just to do this. So 3 AEW in the air is max.
15) Obviously Erieye and F-16 are compatible via Link 16. If true that PAF unique Link 17 is also on Erieye this essentially means most modern fighters in PAF (JF-17/F-16/ROSE Mirage) can see a complete air picture from the Erieye and even turn of their own fire control radars to help avoid detection.

 

[HRK]

Their Phalcons have huge range

and how many Phalcons do they have ...???

and what is their availability rate .... ???

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

and many Phalcons do they have ...???

Sir they have 3 and are trying to procure 2 more. I am actually anxious about our lack of strategic depth. Our Bases like Faisal, Masroor, Bholari, Jacobabad, Rafiqui, Sargodha and all of Punjab and Skardu are in Range of Phalcon's Radar Range while India can place its offensive assets out of our Awacs range and than carry out sudden attack through those bases

Needless to say PAF discovered exact detection ranges of SU-30, Mirage 2000 and MIG-21 during Feb 27th.

You sure about that. Erieyes and SU30s, Mirage 2000s, Mig21s used to fly before 27th Feb too

 

[Bossman]

Sir they have 3 and are trying to procure 2 more. I am actually anxious about our lack of strategic depth. Our Bases like Faisal, Masroor, Bholari, Jacobabad, Rafiqui, Sargodha and all of Punjab and Skardu are in Range of Phalcon's Radar Range while India can place its offensive assets out of our Awacs range and than carry out sudden attack through those bases


You sure about that. Erieyes and SU30s, Mirage 2000s, Mig21s used to fly before 27th Feb too

Their range is 400KM. Lack of depth is something we cannot change and have to live with. PAF trains with that lack of depth in mind. The distance of their airbases does not matter. The plane have to fly to get to us we will see them as soon as they are in range of our AEW&C which will also be looking around 300Km into their territory. The main benefit these bases have is they are out of the range of our jets but not our missiles.

 

[waz]

A great reply. A lot of us visited that forum. Like all things in life there were good and bad aspects. As muslims we are encouraged to look at the good and foget the bad . As long as goals are common support and well wishes should be tendered.
Regards
PS: promise my last post on this particular topic.
A

Thank you brother and you said it best. We've always encouraged efforts of those who had the same end goal. Of course differences do happen, but that's life.

and many Phalcons do they have ...???

and is their availability rate .... ???

India already operates three Phalcon AWACS and two indigenous “Netra” mini-AWACS.
2 more EL/W-2090 were ordered last year, that takes their total to five in total for the future.

 

[Yasser76]

Sir they have 3 and are trying to procure 2 more. I am actually anxious about our lack of strategic depth. Our Bases like Faisal, Masroor, Bholari, Jacobabad, Rafiqui, Sargodha and all of Punjab and Skardu are in Range of Phalcon's Radar Range while India can place its offensive assets out of our Awacs range and than carry out sudden attack through those bases


You sure about that. Erieyes and SU30s, Mirage 2000s, Mig21s used to fly before 27th Feb too

India cannot place offensive assets out of our radar range. If you place a fighter jet 350km away then by default it is no longer an offensive or defensive asset, it is out if the game. Erieye has done it's job without even flying by pushing Indian fighters further away from our borders. By the time they come within range Erieye will give us around 15 minutes notice before they get to Pakistan.

IAF have been trying to procure 2 extra Phalcons for last 15 years. They have now given up on this, as have Israelis.

Yes, these jets flew before 27th Feb but 27th Feb was when they were near our frontline and in full wartime radar and EW configuration. PAF gathered a lot of data via Erieye that day.

 

[Bossman]

Something that people forget is that on February 27th there were three simultaneous IAF attacks, one near Karachi, one on Bahawalpur and one on Balakot. The first two were detected in advance and the jets turned back. Only the Balakot mission was marginally executed, with some benefit of the mountainous terrain.