SAAB-2000 Erieye delivery flight to PAF at ATHENS - 27/05/2020

[Yasser76]

Something that people forget is that on February 27th there were three simultaneous IAF attacks, one near Karachi, one on Bahawalpur and one on Balakot. The first two were detected in advance and the jets turned back. Only the Balakot mission was marginally executed, with some benefit of the mountainous terrain.

Very good point, by all accounts the first two attacks had PAF fighters waiting for them, so Erueye or ground radar did it's job. When PAF struck back I know they waited for IAF Netra to finish patrolling, the fact Indians did not have one immediately available to take over shows big weakness in IAF set up. Such a large force that covers such big territory only has 5 AWACS.

 

[Dreamer.]

Such a large force that covers such big territory only has 5 AWACS.

Actually in terms of India/Pakistan scenario both sides have equal air space to monitor since we share the same border. If anything, it's PAF which would have to watch larger area due to enemy having depth in landmass available to them and ourselves lacking it. Unless you count china side for IAF to monitor, but we all know their primary focus is only pakistan. They merely use china as a bogeyman, knowing that they can never take on them militarily regardless of what they have. And besides much of that border is covered by tallest mountains in the world. Neither is chinese air force focused on that side.

 

[HRK]

How we apparently can differentiate by looking at antenna that is Erieye or Erieye ER ?

Second question why Eyeeri ER cant be mounted on Saab 2000?

Hope you can guide us , as we have limited knowledge in this area

Conversion from Erieye to ER version includes

- Conversion from GaAs to GaN T/R modules
- Software upgrades
- Power and heat management solutions

In other words its a comprehensive upgrade of Radar suit, as far as your query about SAAB-2000 is concern it will be difficult to answer for any person who is not related to program, as no such information is released and we don't know how much power is required for ER version and how much power is available with SAAB-2000

If true that PAF unique Link 17 is also on Erieye this essentially means most modern fighters in PAF (JF-17/F-16/ROSE Mirage) can see a complete air picture from the Erieye and even turn of their own fire control radars to help avoid detection.

Actually most people don't consider that SAAB-2000 Erieye AESA system comes with DATA Fusion Engine which send complete air picture in near real time to assets which are not directly data link with SAAB-2000 so it eliminate the need to data link every asset with SAAB-2000

India already operates three Phalcon AWACS and two indigenous “Netra” mini-AWACS.
2 more EL/W-2090 were ordered last year, that takes their total to five in total for the future.

Sir they have 3 and are trying to procure 2 more.

yaaap they have 3 Phalcons but due to platform with which they are integrated their availability rate is not good, secondly they are also trying to build 6 indigenou AESA with four side antenna for achieving 360° coverage, but reportedly their range is limited to 300 KM [according to old reports prior to 2017], another deal with Israel for additional Phalcon is facing some issues as far as I know

Our Bases like Faisal, Masroor, Bholari, Jacobabad, Rafiqui, Sargodha and all of Punjab and Skardu are in Range of Phalcon's Radar Range while India can place its offensive assets out of our Awacs range and than carry out sudden attack through those bases

they can place their assets beyond our reach but to attack us they will be required to come into our detection and tracking range .... read Bosman reply to you carefully ....

 

[Path-Finder]

yaaap they have 3 Phalcons but due to platform with which they are integrated their availability rate is not good, secondly they are also trying to build 6 indigenou AESA with four side antenna for achieving 360° coverage, but reportedly their range is limited to 300 KM [according to old reports prior to 2017], another deal with Israel for additional Phalcon is facing some issues as far as I know

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indias-not-so-indigenous-aew-cs-netra.575527/

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So be it. When you get old ie periretirement by UK Standards you get a bit overbearing and that goes with seniority. You may or may not agree with it but that remains the case.
If you have gone through the thread then you would have noticed that posters pointed to the problem of ZDK03s having been unable to pick targets clearly in an environment of clutter. You may also have read a post by @Raven saying that there were problems integrating the AESA instead of the current PESA. Then there are issues of integrating the ZDK03 with the 16s without the ground stations which serve as nodes. @Dazzler and @aziqbal have pointed out that the first ZDK03 is still in China undergoing upgrades. It has also been pointed out that this might take a few more years due to the complexity of the integration. You may have also read posts to the effect that PAC's ability to repair the damaged Erieyes has not only given it the experience of integrating the AESA on the Saab 2000s but also seriously embarrased the SAAB people who told us that the platforms could bot be repaired. There are 2 ramifications of this bit of news. Firstly and possibly the integration is being done locally and planes flown over to Sweden for certification. The other most likely scenario is that they have been brow beaten into selling us platforms at a fairly reasonable rate. Cost per hour for the ZDK03 remains higher but that is a secondary factor in the presence of more compelling factor.
Under these limitations it has been decided to use the ZDK03 for marritime surveillance roles where they integrate best with the JFT and M3/5s and increasing the Erieyes for land plus naval surveillance.
All this information I have related to you barring the news regarding the repairs of the Erieye are from this particular thread and posters who have been tagged can verify that. If I am still a jackass then I just have to accept it.
Regards
A

I personally like reading most discussions from the beginning because different posters bring up different questions, so even if someone happens upon your post answering their questions, it is still a very useful exercise to go back and read the complete discussion and various arguments and counterarguments to better understand the subject.

 

[The Maverick]

GUYS ……….. NO OFFENCE … Please delete if this post creates upset of is off topic.

ALOT of comparison are being made with IAF AWACS and a lot of misinformation in this very thread. So let me please tell you what is the real situation

1. India received the 3rd and Final NETRA April 2019 . That means on paper they have 6 with 3 Phalcon
2. The range for tracking is 400km
3. Its a Aesa radar 240 degree tracking
4. HAS maws capsbility
5.Unit cost was $115 million
6,Netra played an active role in balakot strikes

Finally the netra is a indengious indian ystem on a Brazilian EMBRAR platform

2 more indengious platforms are to be ordered and the boeing C295 is the platform to be used

 

[Trailer23]

How we apparently can differentiate by looking at antenna that is Erieye or Erieye ER ?

Second question why Eyeeri ER cant be mounted on Saab 2000?

Ans 1. I personally haven't seen or bothered to study the HD images in order to know the difference, however, it is my belief that the Radar Antenna is the same size/dimensions. Its the tech in it that matters.

Ans 2. There is no evidence to back up that a PAF SAAB 2000 can't mount a Erieye ER. If the Radar Antenna is the same in size/dimensions would also indicate its the same in weight - so Weight & Balance and/or Payload shouldn't matter.

The only obstruction..., I suppose would be - SAAB. Would they want to sell the ER without the whole package as GlobalEye? And, if they want to sell THAT tech to Pakistan?

-------------------------
​

Info from SAAB:

Saab Airborne Surveillance Support Solutions product folder

PDF 345 KB
https://saab.com/globalassets/comme...borne-surveillance-support-product-folder.pdf

@araz @airomerix @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Hodor @Imran Khan @Knuckles
@Adam_Khan @Ahmet Pasha @Akh1112 @GriffinsRule @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Myth_buster_1 @Mirage Battle Commander @Muhammad Omar @Pakistani Fighter @Path-Finder @Rafi @Safriz @Signalian @ziaulislam @Yasser76 @Bossman @Dr. Strangelove

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Ans 1. I personally haven't seen or bothered to study the HD images in order to know the difference, however, it is my belief that the Radar Antenna is the same size/dimensions. Its the tech in it that matters.

Ans 2. There is no evidence to back up that a PAF SAAB 2000 can't mount a Erieye ER. If the Radar Antenna is the same in size/dimensions would also indicate its the same in weight - so Weight & Balance and/or Payload shouldn't matter.

The only obstruction..., I suppose would be - SAAB. Would they want to sell the ER without the whole package as GlobalEye? And, if they want to sell THAT tech to Pakistan?

-------------------------
​

Info from SAAB:

View attachment 637405

View attachment 637404​

Saab Airborne Surveillance Support Solutions product folder
View attachment 637406 PDF 345 KB
https://saab.com/globalassets/comme...borne-surveillance-support-product-folder.pdf

@araz @airomerix @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Hodor @Imran Khan @Knuckles
@Adam_Khan @Ahmet Pasha @Akh1112 @GriffinsRule @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Myth_buster_1 @Mirage Battle Commander @Muhammad Omar @Pakistani Fighter @Path-Finder @Rafi @Safriz @Signalian @ziaulislam @Yasser76 @Bossman @Dr. Strangelove

I have also noticed that not all PAF Saab-2000 are the same spec.

 

[Yasser76]

GUYS ……….. NO OFFENCE … Please delete if this post creates upset of is off topic.

ALOT of comparison are being made with IAF AWACS and a lot of misinformation in this very thread. So let me please tell you what is the real situation

1. India received the 3rd and Final NETRA April 2019 . That means on paper they have 6 with 3 Phalcon
2. The range for tracking is 400km
3. Its a Aesa radar 240 degree tracking
4. HAS maws capsbility
5.Unit cost was $115 million
6,Netra played an active role in balakot strikes

Finally the netra is a indengious indian ystem on a Brazilian EMBRAR platform

2 more indengious platforms are to be ordered and the boeing C295 is the platform to be used

No offence but no use trying to discredit others by then posting factually incorrect data so I will look at your post in detail.

1) No, IAF has 2, 1 remains with DRDO and is not in service, no confirmation yet this is with IAF - FACTUALLY INCORRECT
2) Instrumented range is 300km, so tracking range will be less. Possibly only 200km - FACTUALLY INCORRECT
3) CORRECT
4) CORRECT
5) CORRECT
6) PARTIALLY CORRECT - No Netra was in the sky when PAF retaliated.

NO NEW ORDERS FOR NETRA PLACED AS YET

 

[The Maverick]

No offence but no use trying to discredit others by then posting factually incorrect data so I will look at your post in detail.

1) No, IAF has 2, 1 remains with DRDO and is not in service, no confirmation yet this is with IAF - FACTUALLY INCORRECT
2) Instrumented range is 300km, so tracking range will be less. Possibly only 200km - FACTUALLY INCORRECT
3) CORRECT
4) CORRECT
5) CORRECT
6) PARTIALLY CORRECT - No Netra was in the sky when PAF retaliated.

NO NEW ORDERS FOR NETRA PLACED AS YET

The range is in the vedio 450km
Yours is from which source
Netra used in balskot strike 26th in vedio not made up by me
This is indengious platform so orders can be anything India wants when they want and have funds it could be 2 or 20 let's see

Any way let's stick to discussing paf awacs it's not about Indian netra aew

 

[HRK]

The range is in the vedio 450km

nowhere 450 KM range is mention IF it is there would ask the poster to post screenshot of the video with caption on ....

 

[Yasser76]

The range is in the vedio 450km
Yours is from which source
Netra used in balskot strike 26th in vedio not made up by me
This is indengious platform so orders can be anything India wants when they want and have funds it could be 2 or 20 let's see

Any way let's stick to discussing paf awacs it's not about Indian netra aew

Youtube videos are not always a good source, stated range by your very own DRDO is 300km instrumented. Detection range is always lower then instrumented range, so actually practical detection range of Netra is possibly only 200km. This is almost worthless in battle terms. It being home made does not suddenly mean you can afford it. You still have to pay, and also I remember you also have to buy the actual jets from Brazil, who (last time I checked) will want to be paid. Yes, Netra was used on 26th, on 27th you had nothing in the sky.

I did not bring up Netra in this thread, you did. Thanks

nowhere 450 KM range is mention IF it is there would ask the poster to post screenshot of the video with caption on ....

His lies have been exposed

 

[airomerix]

GUYS ……….. NO OFFENCE … Please delete if this post creates upset of is off topic.

ALOT of comparison are being made with IAF AWACS and a lot of misinformation in this very thread. So let me please tell you what is the real situation

1. India received the 3rd and Final NETRA April 2019 . That means on paper they have 6 with 3 Phalcon

When will you stop bullshitting on this forum? The following are the only two airframes carrying Netra in the world.

KW3556
KW3555

Furthermore, here you go. You better go into oblivion after your lies.

2. The range for tracking is 400km

It is 200 km for a F-16C sized target. If you really want to debate the specifics.

3. Its a Aesa radar 240 degree tracking

Who contested that?

4. HAS maws capsbility

So do most military aircraft out there. Our 40 year old C-130's have MAWS for damn sake.

5.Unit cost was $115 million

Sure

6,Netra played an active role in balakot strikes

Did a poor job it means.

Finally the netra is a indengious indian ystem on a Brazilian EMBRAR platform

2 more indengious platforms are to be ordered and the boeing C295 is the platform to be used

IAF has no plans of actually inducting Netra after these two systems. A330 option is being exercised. Speaks volume about so called 'satisfaction'

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

When will you stop bullshitting on this forum? The following are the only two airframes carrying Netra in the world.

KW3556
KW3555

Furthermore, here you go. You better go into oblivion after your lies.

View attachment 637617




It is 200 km for a F-16C sized target. If you really want to debate the specifics.



Who contested that?


So do most military aircraft out there. Our 40 year old C-130's have MAWS for damn sake.

Sure


Did a poor job it means.



IAF has no plans of actually inducting Netra after these two systems. A330 option is being exercised. Speaks volume about so called 'satisfaction'

Where was Phalcon on 26th and 27th? Cam you tell Phalcon's range?

 

[airomerix]

Where was Phalcon on 26th and 27th? Cam you tell Phalcon's range?

They were on ground resting. From yesterday's long hours of flying in anticipation of an attack.