S-400 : A silver bullet for IAF air defence systems?

[BRAVO_]

pakistan response against S400 is Ababil missile which they have tested already.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No matter the range or apparent sophistication of the air defence system, its employment and effectiveness isn't clear cut. Likewise, mitigating enemy air defence systems is also not clear cut. For the PAF, the potential presence of the S-400 adds a risk / red flag to using high-value air assets at high-altitude near the border. But for India, stationing S-400s close enough to 'cut Pakistan off' its own air space invites the risk of nearby rocket and artillery strikes (which in Pakistan's case, are getting more sophisticated and capable).

The more I think about it, the more it seems that the S-400 is an effort to thwart Pakistan's offensive or deep strike capabilities today and in the future than to offensively do anything. The latter is simply too high-risk for India to employ considering the myriad of threats one can throw at the S-400 (if and when we find its systems via drones, HUMINT, IMINT, and SIGINT, and then hit it with Babur, Ra'ad, Fatah, etc).

The last thing anyone (except us Pakistanis) want to see is Swift Retort-like capability available fleet-wide via a large enough stealth fighter in numbers and SOWs. IMHO, the S-400 (and India's air defence efforts at large) are designed to mitigate that eventuality (IMHO, it will happen one way or another, AZM or no AZM). @SQ8 @JamD

 

[Ali_Baba]

I think additionally, Pakistan needs to look at mobile 400km + MLRS systems to be able to counter the S400. S400 deployments will not be static, but will be a cat-and-mouse games as India moves + redeploys and Pakistan counters.

The best that Pakistan can do is build up its EW capabilities such that can detect the activation of these systems and bring in Cruise missiles/SOWs in addition to MLRS systems to take it out. By being able to force them to be 200-300km from the border, their effectiveness will be massively reduced, and of threat to large slow moving targets like AEW&Cs and Air-to-air refuellers.

Pakistan can look at the details of the S400 via both China and Turkey(though reports indicate that the Turks have not activated the radar systems of their units yet ) to determine its capabilites and to develop tactics. You can see how the Azerbijan took care of the S300 in their recent conflict so see how they can be countered.

The real threat is of course from the range, but also that it is an integrated air defence systems, meaning two S400 systems can interconnect, share targetting information in addition to guiding missiles from the other system. One can remain "silent" while the other does the targetting etc, making detection so much more difficult.

We have to also assume that the S400s in Indian service will have SATCOM capabilities to both receive and send targetting information.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think additionally, Pakistan needs to look at mobile 400km + MLRS systems to be able to counter the S400. S400 deployments will not be static, but will be a cat-and-mouse games as India moves + redeploys and Pakistan counters.

The best that Pakistan can do is build up its EW capabilities such that can detect the activation of these systems and bring in Cruise missiles/SOWs in addition to MLRS systems to take it out. By being able to force them to be 200-300km from the border, their effectiveness will be massively reduced, and of threat to large slow moving targets like AEW&Cs and Air-to-air refuellers.

Pakistan can look at the details of the S400 via both China and Turkey(though reports indicate that the Turks have not activated the radar systems of their units yet ) to determine its capabilites and to develop tactics. You can see how the Azerbijan took care of the S300 in their recent conflict so see how they can be countered.

The real threat is of course from the range, but also that it is an integrated air defence systems, meaning two S400 systems can interconnect, share targetting information in addition to guiding missiles from the other system. One can remain "silent" while the other does the targetting etc, making detection so much more difficult.

We have to also assume that the S400s in Indian service will have SATCOM capabilities to both receive and send targetting information.

I agree. I think enough of those assets on our end would dissuade India from deploying the S-400s near the border. We should also look into HALE UAVs for ISR and ELINT.

 

[The Maverick]

21/10/2021 is more than 8 months into the future...........

Now only 3 months away

 

[Signalian]

The best that Pakistan can do is build up its EW capabilities

Every radar systems has limitations which can be exploited by EW performance of the other party.

 

[Muhammed45]

Every radar systems has limitations which can be exploited by EW performance of the other party.

How about something like this sir?

And how come you buy some regiments of it? Don't worry about caatsa, USA has nothing to offer you.

 

[RAMPAGE]

And how come you buy some regiments of it?

There is not much Iran can offer us in the BM domain. It is very likely that PAF is working on S400-specific countermeasures as we speak.

 

[Muhammed45]

There is not much Iran can offer us in the BM domain.

Maybe and maybe not. Iranian BMs have a good bettle experience against American and Israeli targets. They have successfuly evaded THAAD in Yemen. THAAD despite being highly capable against simple trajectory BMs, it was inaffective against Yemeni quasi BMs.

Iranian bombing of Ain Al Assad was done while the base was being Protected by various radars and airdefense systems. The radars in Qatar, Kuwait, KSA, Bahrain and Turkey help Americans to track Iranian missiles launched abroad. All of these systems failed to deter the attack on Assad airbase which was the largest American airbase in middle east Hosting high ranking American officials including ministers and presidents of USA.

It is very likely that PAF is working on S400-specific countermeasures as we speak.

Surely. They won't be sitting docks and we being simple forumers have no say in their final decisions and merely speculating things.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The Americans have already unveiled the answer to the S400. It is called the PrSM.

Precision Strike Missile (PrSM)

The PrSM is our next-generation, long-range precision-strike missile designed for the U.S. Army’s PrSM program, delivering unparalleled long-range capabilities.

www.lockheedmartin.com

Raytheon DeepStrike Missile, United States of America

DeepStrike is a next-generation, long-range, surface-to-surface precision strike missile (PrSM) being developed by Raytheon Company for the US Army.

www.army-technology.com

Doc : https://www.lockheedmartin.com/cont...in/mfc/documents/prsm/mfc-prsm-fact-sheet.pdf

Having a stealty ELINT UAV combined with a 500km MLRS system is why the PrSM system is an answer to integrated SAM systems like the S400.

The Chinese already have this solution in place, as do the Americans.

 

[Muhammed45]

The Americans have already unveiled the answer to the S400. It is called the PrSM.

Having a stealty ELINT UAV combined with a hypersonic MLRS system which is why the PrSM system is, is the answer to modern integrated SAM systems.

Americans are too late to this club. Currently Iran, Russia and China are the bests in this field. Iran has Haj Qasem missile as its flag ship with 1400 KM Range, Russians possess Iskanders and gliding vehicles and Chinese have their own designs.

Americans might have the best airforce but in missile arena they have at least 5-10 years to catch up with Russian and Chinese.

 

[skyshadow]

There is not much Iran can offer us in the BM domain. It is very likely that PAF is working on S400-specific countermeasures as we speak.

these are not simple ballistic missiles they have anti radiation capability in them, which means they are passive, for enemy it mean either you turn your radar off or you better hope you are shooting them all down it takes 1, for guided ballistic missile you can handle little movements of the target but with anti radiation missiles target can move 30-50 kms and it still doesn't matter

 

[RAMPAGE]

Maybe and maybe not. Iranian BMs have a good bettle experience against American and Israeli targets. They have successfuly evaded THAAD in Yemen. THAAD despite being highly capable against simple trajectory BMs, it was inaffective against Yemeni quasi BMs.

Iranian bombing of Ain Al Assad was done while the base was being Protected by various radars and airdefense systems. The radars in Qatar, Kuwait, KSA, Bahrain and Turkey help Americans to track Iranian missiles launched abroad. All of these systems failed to deter the attack on Assad airbase which was the largest American airbase in middle east Hosting high ranking American officials including ministers and presidents of USA.



Surely. They won't be sitting docks and we being simple forumers have no say in their final decisions and merely speculating things.

Thank you for explaining what anti-radiation missiles are.