Russia's new terror threat: Ethnic jihadis

[vostok]

You are not answering my questions. You have only accepted one old ideology and treat with my comments with pure dogmatism.
Lets be logical for a moment. I ask you a simple question. consider that some people, have exiled your people to Siberia and have made your people to run away from your country to foreign countries, and have killed thousands of your people, and From the First day of their occupation your people have fought against them and protested their occupation, and they have built their own cities on your lands and mass immigrated to these stolen lands.
What would you feel about them? Lets be honest. Would you feel close to them and want to be a part of them?!!!



PS. Now, just change the words "your" with "caucasians" and "some people" with "Russians". what would be the conclusion? tell the answer to yourself.



It's not about religion. Georgians are christians for hundreds of years. but, they have problems with Russians as well. The problem is that they have been oppressed for a long time with the worst possible means. No wonder that they get forced to tend to extremism. specially, if you just consider that only some extremists in Arab countries and some few others are willing to help them, and their helps comes with their own extremist ideologies. These are the real facts about this region that many people don't know about it.
The situation cannot get better if we let those people be more under oppression and we avoid helping them and let extremists to intrude there and export their ideologies with their funds, and arms there.

All your logic is built on false premises . I do not judge you because you - the victim of Western propaganda . This is a huge , titanic machine and it washes brains very easily and quickly.
Nobody forces you to go anywhere . Most remained on their land. Russian did not take the land . These people have become subjects of the Russian Empire , as were Russian or other nations.
If someone wanted to go somewhere - he went , no one is forced to stay . Do not want to be under the White Orthodox Tsar - go away wherever you want and who you want to live under .
From Europe also left millions in America, but it does not mean that someone forced them to leave.
At the expense of the rebels. If somewhere start riots , revolutions, civil wars - you can be sure this is the work of Britain and the United States . Likewise, it was in the 19th century. If somewhere started the revolution or rebellion - is the work of the Anglo-Saxons . Only very naive person would think that the terrorists in the Caucasus fighting for peace and independence . They fight because they were trained in terrorist camps . The same camps where taught al-Qaeda and the mujahideen . Americans use the lightest human feelings to deceive man and make him rage for their interests.
Russian also deported to Siberia , this is normal.

 

[Juice]

I agree with some part of your post. You need to consider that all croats, serbs, and Bosnians are very close ethnically. even their languages is almost identical, and mutually intelligible. So, your reasoning can be applied to them. since their differences is very limited and its only about religion. But, that's not the case in caucasus. Russians are very new to that region. they have appeared there in 100-200 years ago,(caucasus is a civilized region for more than 3000 years) and they have treated people with an endless brutality. I am sure you know about Russians attitude. BTW, It's not much better than Nazis we cannot force different people, with different ethnicities, languages, history, religions, traditions, ... to live under one flag only by brute force. Chechens have not been living as an independent nation so far. they just defeated Russians for a very short period of time. Anyway, people get very hot headed and angry at the beginning of every revolution, independence and other big social changes. So, we need not to expect them to act very rationally in those few days of their fragile freedom.

Lol...I see you are quite familiar with the history. I will come back tomorrow with "the big guns". Nice to see someone else pays attention to the trends there. (one small point....Russia has messed around in the Caucus a little longer than 200 years....they are newer to the Siberian-Tiaga region. However their taking control, Sevastopol etc....is newer.)

 

[rmi5]

All your logic is built on false premises . I do not judge you because you - the victim of Western propaganda . This is a huge , titanic machine and it washes brains very easily and quickly.

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nobody forces you to go anywhere . Most remained on their land.

So, Are you denying that some ethnicities exiled to Siberia because of their so called cooperation or relations with germans?!!!

Russian did not take the land . These people have become subjects of the Russian Empire , as were Russian or other nations.

What if they didn't want to live under the flag of your empire?

If someone wanted to go somewhere - he went , no one is forced to stay . Do not want to be under the White Orthodox Tsar - go away wherever you want and who you want to live under .

So, answer this question. If some thief takes your home by a gun, does he has the right to tell you either live under my rule or go away from your home?!!! Is it logical?

From Europe also left millions in America, but it does not mean that someone forced them to leave.
At the expense of the rebels. If somewhere start riots , revolutions, civil wars - you can be sure this is the work of Britain and the United States . Likewise, it was in the 19th century. If somewhere started the revolution or rebellion - is the work of the Anglo-Saxons .

just wow to your reasoning.

Only very naive person would think that the terrorists in the Caucasus fighting for peace and independence . They fight because they were trained in terrorist camps . The same camps where taught al-Qaeda and the mujahideen . Americans use the lightest human feelings to deceive man and make him rage for their interests.

What about Imam Shamil? Was he an american agent or trained by AQ?

Russian also deported to Siberia , this is normal.

your norms are a bit strange for me.

 

[Juice]

All your logic is built on false premises . I do not judge you because you - the victim of Western propaganda . This is a huge , titanic machine and it washes brains very easily and quickly.
Nobody forces you to go anywhere . Most remained on their land. Russian did not take the land . These people have become subjects of the Russian Empire , as were Russian or other nations.
If someone wanted to go somewhere - he went , no one is forced to stay . Do not want to be under the White Orthodox Tsar - go away wherever you want and who you want to live under .
From Europe also left millions in America, but it does not mean that someone forced them to leave.
At the expense of the rebels. If somewhere start riots , revolutions, civil wars - you can be sure this is the work of Britain and the United States . Likewise, it was in the 19th century. If somewhere started the revolution or rebellion - is the work of the Anglo-Saxons . Only very naive person would think that the terrorists in the Caucasus fighting for peace and independence . They fight because they were trained in terrorist camps . The same camps where taught al-Qaeda and the mujahideen . Americans use the lightest human feelings to deceive man and make him rage for their interests.
Russian also deported to Siberia , this is normal.

While I disagree on some points....your pushing the fact that a bird does not fall with out Anglo-Saxon permission....I'm on board.

 

[rmi5]

Lol...I see you are quite familiar with the history. I will come back tomorrow with "the big guns". Nice to see someone else pays attention to the trends there. (one small point....Russia has messed around in the Caucus a little longer than 200 years....they are newer to the Siberian-Tiaga region. However their taking control, Sevastopol etc....is newer.)

Thanks, BTW, Happy New year and hope you have a happy and successful new year

 

[Juice]

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, Are you denying that some ethnicities exiled to Siberia because of their so called cooperation or relations with germans?!!!

What if they didn't want to live under the flag of your empire?

So, answer this question. If some thief takes your home by a gun, does he has the right to tell you either live under my rule or go away from your home?!!! Is it logical?

just wow to your reasoning.

What about Imam Shamil? Was he an american agent or trained by AQ?

your norms are a bit strange for me.

We had an argument not too long ago about the Volga Germans. Something to do with how Jews are treated in many lands (I reflected that keeping your identity and not acclimatizing to the larger culture will always bring enmity...ala the Volga Germans.) But, keep in mind much of this was Soviet....not Russian. (You brought up Georgia recently)

Thanks, BTW, Happy New year and hope you have a happy and successful new year

Same to you! I'll be honest...I think this is going to be a good year...for myself and the world!

Ps...didn't complete my thought...Georgia is relevant to the Soviet-Russia question because of you know who...

 

[vostok]

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, Are you denying that some ethnicities exiled to Siberia because of their so called cooperation or relations with germans?!!!

What if they didn't want to live under the flag of your empire?

So, answer this question. If some thief takes your home by a gun, does he has the right to tell you either live under my rule or go away from your home?!!! Is it logical?

just wow to your reasoning.

What about Imam Shamil? Was he an american agent or trained by AQ?

your norms are a bit strange for me.

They were deported because they actually collaborated with the Nazis . On the same charges were temporarily deported part of Latvians and Estonians , western Ukrainians , Crimean Tatars, Chechens. After a while they all were allowed to return home.
Russia conquered the Caucasus not from local people, but from other empires - the Persian and Ottoman . Russia never fought with women and children, but against the soldiers of other empires . Do you think if today all the nations of the North Caucasus will become independent - they will stay long in this state? No. They will plunge into total chaos and civil war . And it will benefit only the enemies of Russia , but not the people living in the North Caucasus .
Shamil undoubtedly collaborated with the British through intermediaries the Turks or Arabs. From them he received money, weapons and intelligence .

 

[vostok]

While I disagree on some points....your pushing the fact that a bird does not fall with out Anglo-Saxon permission....I'm on board.

Do not rejoice, it will end soon.

 

[rmi5]

We had an argument not too long ago about the Volga Germans. Something to do with how Jews are treated in many lands (I reflected that keeping your identity and not acclimatizing to the larger culture will always bring enmity...ala the Volga Germans.) But, keep in mind much of this was Soviet....not Russian. (You brought up Georgia recently)

Yes, acclimatizing is very important, specially for the minorities living among a majority. like jews, who were immigrants, living in Eastern Europe. Although we cannot always blame a minority sometimes the majority has a bigger share in bringing enmity.
In this case, I would say, Russians are the new newcomer minority in that region. Anyway, acting friendly brings peace, and using brute force causes hostility. That's how people would react. Current Caucasians reactions are a result of Russians/Soviet actions and harsh policies.

Same to you! I'll be honest...I think this is going to be a good year...for myself and the world!
Ps...didn't complete my thought...Georgia is relevant to the Soviet-Russia question because of you know who...

I am optimistic about the new year as well. I hope the economical conditions get better, and people get more educated and tolerant toward each other. I am sure that would be the new trend of the world.

 

[rmi5]

They were deported because they actually collaborated with the Nazis . On the same charges were temporarily deported part of Latvians and Estonians , western Ukrainians , Crimean Tatars, Chechens. After a while they all were allowed to return home.

How can a whole ethnicity cooperate with a group?!!! honestly, is it even slightly logical? Come on ...
you are getting ridiculous my dear friend.

Russia conquered the Caucasus not from local people, but from other empires - the Persian and Ottoman . Russia never fought with women and children, but against the soldiers of other empires .

1. Why Russians had the right to invade other empires territory? Did Persians invade Russian Empire the first place? 2. Your information about civil citizens not get killed is not correct.

Do you think if today all the nations of the North Caucasus will become independent - they will stay long in this state? No. They will plunge into total chaos and civil war . And it will benefit only the enemies of Russia , but not the people living in the North Caucasus .

Buddy, your information is very limited about caucasus. Did we have any major war among different ethnicities in Caucasus before Russians came to Caucasus? Did Azeris and Armenians have any sort of problem with each other before Russians came to caucasus? So, I assure you that we won't have any problem without your presence in our ancestral lands. BTW, we , caucasians are civilized for thousands of years, and we lived with each other peacefully for all those years. We don't need anyone to bring peace for us.

Shamil undoubtedly collaborated with the British through intermediaries the Turks or Arabs. From them he received money, weapons and intelligence .

I don't know how much of lie they have told you in Russian history books and media, but as an example, Arabs were not even independent and had not even slightest idea about caucasus at that time. Check it yourself

 

[KingMamba]

What else expect from a man with the American flag? Almost 100% of what you write is need to be understand fully opposite. And then we can get the truth.
I assure you, except from some bandits all the peoples of the Caucasus for an alliance with Russia. They do not want to live in a second Afghanistan. And it sure happens if they come from Russia.

His American flag shows location, hardly means anything.

 

[rmi5]

His American flag shows location, hardly means anything.

He thinks that everyone who lives in USA is an angelo-saxon or jewish banker or an agent of secret societies. His ultra leftist thoughts are not too much different from @elis 's opinions if you know him.
Anyway, labeling others in a discussion is not a good behavior, and it is only an Ad hominem fallacy.

 

[vostok]

How can a whole ethnicity cooperate with a group?!!! honestly, is it even slightly logical? Come on ...
you are getting ridiculous my dear friend.

1. Why Russians had the right to invade other empires territory? Did Persians invade Russian Empire the first place? 2. Your information about civil citizens not get killed is not correct.

Buddy, your information is very limited about caucasus. Did we have any major war among different ethnicities in Caucasus before Russians came to Caucasus? Did Azeris and Armenians have any sort of problem with each other before Russians came to caucasus? So, I assure you that we won't have any problem without your presence in our ancestral lands. BTW, we , caucasians are civilized for thousands of years, and we lived with each other peacefully for all those years. We don't need anyone to bring peace for us.

I don't know how much of lie they have told you in Russian history books and media, but as an example, Arabs were not even independent and had not even slightest idea about caucasus at that time. Check it yourself

How can cooperate whole ethnic groups ? Very simple. Croats - fought for the Nazis. Serbs - against the Nazis. Same thing in the Caucasus - most nations fought against the Nazis , but some - for them. They were punished.
You want to ask me why Russia took away the land from the Persians or Turks ? For the same reason that these lands once were conquered by the Persians and Turks .
I can not guarantee that during the war, Russian not kill a single civilian . But I can guarantee that these were isolated cases. For such an infamy in our army punished severely and instantly - shot on the spot .
Georgians and Armenians joined the Russian Empire voluntarily . Georgians are very often liked to say that Russian saved them from total annihilation that threatened the Georgians from the Turks and Persians.
I'm wondering how you assumed the right to speak on behalf of the Caucasus. Can I arrogate to myself the right to speak on behalf of whole Eurasia? Because Russia is in Eurasia .
No need to talk about peaceful Caucasus. Turkey and Iran were at war with each other constantly .
who were Intermediaries of "rebels" in the 19th century - the Turks or Arabs , and who now - does not matter . The important thing is that all these "rebels " - actually just hired killers without a homeland and honor. They are at war with women and children.

His American flag shows location, hardly means anything.

If he is living there constantly or even a citizen - it's important.

 

[elis]

He thinks that everyone who lives in USA is an angelo-saxon or jewish banker or an agent of secret societies. His ultra leftist thoughts are not too much different from @elis 's opinions if you know him.
Anyway, labeling others in a discussion is not a good behavior, and it is only an Ad hominem fallacy.

Except that i'am not a leftist like him

 

[rmi5]

Except that i'am not a leftist like him

Seriously, who are you? an islamists? a leftist? what's the deal with you? Are you one of Jew USA agents?
Come on man, tell the truth. I am very curious to know.