Russian Fifth-Generation Fighter to Exceed Rivals

[True_Pakistan_Zindabad]

So you think China makes better aircrafts than Russia?

Just wait for FC-20. J-10 in itself is a big slap to Russia. Usually China is so dependent on them, yet they produced an Asian F-16 all on their own.

 

[inddef]

So you think China makes better aircrafts than Russia?

the chinese defense budget is already 2x russia and will get to 3x or more within 5 years.

russia is the wrong bet in the long term.

 

[Markus]

the chinese defense budget is already 2x russia and will get to 3x or more within 5 years.

russia is the wrong bet in the long term.

China is not an alternative to Russia when it comes to being India's military supplier.

The only viable substitutes are Israel + Europe OR USA.

 

[inddef]

thats not what i am saying. i am saying that chinese aircraft will almost certainly be qualitatively superior to russians within the next 10-15 years because of the huge funding gap.

the only way to counter this is to buy into top end western r&d by paying top $ with preferably offsets to spur domestic industry and jobs. indo-russian JVs will be underfunded compared to chinese projects in this period.

 

[Markus]

thats not what i am saying. i am saying that chinese aircraft will almost certainly be qualitatively superior to russians within the next 10-15 years because of the huge funding gap.

the only way to counter this is to buy into top end western r&d by paying top $ with preferably offsets to spur domestic industry and jobs. indo-russian JVs will be underfunded compared to chinese projects in this period.

Difficult to believe the thing in bold.

Anyways, if u look at the options in front of us, the best way to move forward is to go with PAK-FA. Even though this is Russia's first attempt in developing a 5th gen jet, we cannot discard the fact that Russia is in the fighter manufacturing business for a long time now and it's experience is nothing but useful.

And as for china, let JXX fly first, then we can discuss where we all stand.

 

[Devianz]

Just wait for FC-20. J-10 in itself is a big slap to Russia. Usually China is so dependent on them, yet they produced an Asian F-16 all on their own.

Yeah they made an asian F-16A, so what? Does that undermine Russian superiority in aircraft manufacturing?. J-10 is by no means a slap to Russia. But J-11 is.

 

[Frankenstein]

This Russian Fifth-Generation Fighter program seems so dead unlike Raptor or JSF, we are talking about 5 gen program and Russia happens to be second country to come up with, but still....

 

[Devianz]

thats not what i am saying. i am saying that chinese aircraft will almost certainly be qualitatively superior to russians within the next 10-15 years because of the huge funding gap.

the only way to counter this is to buy into top end western r&d by paying top $ with preferably offsets to spur domestic industry and jobs. indo-russian JVs will be underfunded compared to chinese projects in this period.

Russians have always delivered top products comparable to the west with considerably lower budgets. Besides we are not entirely depended on Russia in case of FGFA. If we feel that some of the avionics are not up to our requirements (highly unlikely looking at Su-35S) we will simply go with an Israeli or French alternative.

 

[Devianz]

This Russian Fifth-Generation Fighter program seems so dead unlike Raptor or JSF, we are talking about 5 gen program and Russia happens to be second country to come up with, but still....

Dead? It will be highly helpful for you to check out the PAK-FA threads in keypublishing and militaryphotos forums.

 

[inddef]

Russians have always delivered top products comparable to the west with considerably lower budgets. Besides we are not entirely depended on Russia in case of FGFA. If we feel that some of the avionics are not up to our requirements (highly unlikely looking at Su-35S) we will simply go with an Israeli or French alternative.

i am more concerned about stealth and bvraams which are the parameters on which i fear russia might fall behind both the west and china within 10-15 years. russians are no longer delivering stuff on low budgets anyway.

 

[Markus]

i am more concerned about stealth and bvraams. russians are no longer delivering stuff on low budgets anyway.

Man - we are talking of stealth fighter planes - it cannot survive on low budgets. Money has to be poured like water if we are to come up with a satisfactory product.

 

[inddef]

Man - we are talking of stealth fighter planes - it cannot survive on low budgets. Money has to be poured like water if we are to come up with a satisfactory product.

exactly the reason i think china might beat russia to the post on stealth. their budget gap to russia will keep increasing every year.

 

[Devianz]

i am more concerned about stealth and bvraams which are the parameters on which i fear russia might fall behind both the west and china within 10-15 years. russians are no longer delivering stuff on low budgets anyway.

Go through the PAK-FA threads mentioned in my previous post.
BTW, we don't have to go for Russian bvraams. We can buy anything from Europe and Israel.

 

[Markus]

exactly the reason i think china might beat russia to the post on stealth. their budget gap to russia will keep increasing every year.

Dont focus only on budget gap, anyways Russia is not alone, India will also provide the funds. India + Russia combined is enough to sponsor PAK-FA.

Also, don't forget that China will have to spend more money on research whereas Russia will save over there because of existing systems and sub systems.

Remember this China's first 5th gen project and they will have to work a lot on the engine of JXX also. Russian tech in manufacturing jet engines is well known.

 

[inddef]

Dont focus only on budget gap, anyways Russia is not alone, India will also provide the funds. India + Russia combined is enough to sponsor PAK-FA.

Also, don't forget that China will have to spend more money on research whereas Russia will save over there because of existing systems and sub systems.

Remember this China's first 5th gen project and they will have to work a lot on the engine of JXX also. Russian tech in manufacturing jet engines is well known.

all valid points. my only quip is that with the amount of funding we'll put into pak-fa would get us easily into the jsf program. money talks.

and my fear is that the pak-fa is not going to be anywhere near as stealthy as the jsf.

and i just hope the chinese fighter isn't anywhere near as good as the jsf