Russia will not agree to any curbs on transfer of sensitive technologies to India!

[pmukherjee]

Maybe they are getting signals that they will not get the MRCA deal.
Hillary Clinton seemed to suggest that the two were linked.

In anycase, India has Russia and France, so no big loss.

Yeah maybe, but I think it goes deeper than that. Maybe it has something to do with the typically and historically constipated attitude of a Democratic administration. Regardless of how hard they may try, they cant shed their scales. Basically, the US has to get out of this mind set of being the world's policeman.

 

[Developereo]

I thought Pakistani nuclear program was indigenous?

Very few nuclear programs are indigenous. Maybe only Americans. Even the Russians stole technology from the Americans.

It is silly to reinvent the wheel. If someone else already knows the stuff, why not learn as much from them as possible? And then build upon it indigenously.

 

[Developereo]

Yeah maybe, but I think it goes deeper than that. Maybe it has something to do with the typically and historically constipated attitude of a Democratic administration. Regardless of how hard they may try, they cant shed their scales. Basically, the US has to get out of this mind set of being the world's policeman.

Hmmm. Used to be that Democrats were pro-India, and Republicans were pro-Pakistan. But that all changed with Baby Bush. Now it's all mixed up.

 

[Saint N sinnerr]

Sorry, but you had posted some strong anti-Muslim comments in another thread.

Big deal??
LCA teja , please remember (no offence to indian muslims) but only pak`s can post comment against Hindus / Jews / Christians ... being Hindus we cant my man....
U go ahed develerapo or how ever U spell it (?) why dont U go ahed and see the racists comments against Hindus and Jews posted on this forum and in every Bannana islamic republic forums!!!

 

[Choppers]

I dont think the deal with the US building reactors in India is going to materialise. I have read it somewhere, that the US is planning to forego the option of building reactors in India so that it can maintain the high moral ground to single mindedly pursue the non proliferation goals of the Obama administration. I shall try to locate the article and post it.

Of course that is not likely to affect the deals India has struck with Russia and France.

India has already inked deals with US companies like GE and Toshiba Westland. India has already finalised sites in Maharashtra Tamil Nadu where nuclear parks will be set up. These companies will soon start working on them. And there are absolutely no concerns of nuclear proliferation. The world already considers India a responsible nuclear power and is very keen to engage in nuclear trade with us. France and Russia are even willing to transfer highly sensitive nuclear reprocessing technologies to India.

 

[pmukherjee]

India has already inked deals with US companies like GE and Toshiba Westland. India has already finalised sites in Maharashtra Tamil Nadu where nuclear parks will be set up. These companies will soon start working on them. And there are absolutely no concerns of nuclear proliferation. The world already considers India a responsible nuclear power and is very keen to engage in nuclear trade with us. France and Russia are even willing to transfer highly sensitive nuclear reprocessing technologies to India.

I know all that buddy, just that I read something which sounded plausible. Actually we dont need American reactors(which some say will be older versions and not the latest state of the art) or American nuclear fuel. What we get from Kazakhstan and Namibia will be enough.

 

[pmukherjee]

Sorry screaming scull, this is not an attempt to derail your thread, just an input which may be relevant to the overall scenario. Would welcome your views though.

Guys this is the article I was refering to which says that contrary to popular belief Indo-US nuclear trade may never happen.

"Lucrative nuclear trade with India, including supplies of reactors, was among the obvious reasons for the Bush administration to think in terms of offering India a special dispensation for full civilian nuclear co-operation.
Varying assessments of the massive increase in jobs in the United States on account of the expected trade in equipment were made. These projections went a long way in vetting the appetite of the industrial sector in the United States and in aggravating the suspicions in the non-proliferation lobbies.

The enthusiasm for the nuclear deal by the US-India Business Council (USIBC), consisting of the big players in India-US trade was attributed to the lure of nuclear trade with India. The USIBC engaged professional lobbyists in Washington to promote the deal on the Hill and elsewhere and there was considerable jubilation in it when the deal was signed.

In India too, the presumption was that significant nuclear trade with the US would follow the deal. Although experts knew that the US had no ready reactors to sell, it was believed that the US industry had already begun to fabricate reactors, using old technology to capture the Indian market.

The US insistence on strict regulations on nuclear trade and its reluctance to give assurances of perpetuity of supplies were seen as mere ploys to get the best business terms for nuclear trade. The argument was that the US would not sacrifice business opportunities for the sake of non-proliferation objectives.

Why should the US work so hard to secure Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) waiver for India merely to facilitate supply of reactors by Russia [ Images ] and France [ Images ] to India?

There were whispers in India during the negotiations that we should be Machiavellian in our approach to the United States. Some suggested that India should go along with the US conditions till we obtained the necessary clearances and then not place any orders in the US if the conditions of supply were not favourable to us.

The natural reaction of the US side was to extract a Memorandum of Understanding from India that we would seek to secure a significant percentage of our nuclear supplies from the US. It was also insisted on that India should earmark two locations for the installation of US reactors in India.

The Obama [ Images ] administration has maintained this position and one of the trophies that US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton [ Images ] carried back from India was an assurance on locations for American reactors.

But the latest indication from Washington is that the US may not be interested in supplying nuclear material and reactors to India under the new dispensation. This is emerging as a matter of policy as well as a practical measure. President Obama does not want to stand in the way of the implementation of the 123 Agreement, but he is sensitive to the criticism that he is willing to dilute his commitment to non-proliferation for the sake of commercial advantages.........."

The US may have no nuclear trade with India: Rediff.com news

 

[dvk1982]

That's probably why you are paying 1.2 billion dollars to US firms to build two new nuclear reactors.

Just to import fuel. Uh huh.

FYI, the PWR for Arihant was built with lots and lots of Russian help.

The article you posted itself says, "Russia is guided by the nuclear cooperation pact it signed with India last year, which does not contain any restrictions on the transfer of technology" and "Russia’s massive assistance to India in building its first nuclear submarine was proof of his country’s commitment to full-fledged cooperation in nuclear technologies"

Better edit your news clippings if you want to keep your story straight.

by now , i guess u know there r many different types of reactors... India is way ahead in FBRs -Fast breader reactor, whose prototype is almost ready 220MW in next 1-2 yrs... Indian reactors are smaller in size , last time I heard ,Indian reactors are at max 450 -500 MW only...
and if u observe, we r importing reactors much bigger and with more advanced structures in the range of 1000 MW -1600 MW, its like comparing Japanese cars to F1 racing cars.... both r ideally cars with great differences.. now clubbing India and pakistan in terms of reactor tech wud be just ignorance...

 

[Gabbar]

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

I think the whole game plan in the south asian region has changed dramatically.

 

[dvk1982]

Hmmm. Used to be that Democrats were pro-India, and Republicans were pro-Pakistan. But that all changed with Baby Bush. Now it's all mixed up.

Frankly u cud say so only on relative terms... india was never on US radar or may be we never showed interest to be in US camp....so due to all geo-political situations Pakistan came closer to US particularly republicans closer... But realistically noone viewed India as any kind of ally to US block till the start of this century...

 

[Developereo]

Frankly u cud say so only on relative terms... india was never on US radar or may be we never showed interest to be in US camp....so due to all geo-political situations Pakistan came closer to US particularly republicans closer... But realistically noone viewed India as any kind of ally to US block till the start of this century...

Both India and Pakistan have been lobbying the US for a long, long time, going back to the collapse of the USSR. Just because India claims to be non-aligned doesn't mean they can't lobby the US for favors or, at the very least, promote anti-Pakistan agenda.

But this is getting off-topic.

 

[Developereo]

by now , i guess u know there r many different types of reactors... India is way ahead in FBRs -Fast breader reactor, whose prototype is almost ready 220MW in next 1-2 yrs... Indian reactors are smaller in size , last time I heard ,Indian reactors are at max 450 -500 MW only...
and if u observe, we r importing reactors much bigger and with more advanced structures in the range of 1000 MW -1600 MW, its like comparing Japanese cars to F1 racing cars.... both r ideally cars with great differences..

Precisely my point.

now clubbing India and pakistan in terms of reactor tech wud be just ignorance...

As I stated earlier, it will set a precedent for countries to sell civilian nuclear technology to Pakistan. All this talk of responsible/irresponsible goes out the window once the checkbook comes out. The challenge for Pakistan is to develop its economy (and collect proper taxes from its deadbeat tax evaders) to wield a bigger checkbook.

 

[dvk1982]

Both India and Pakistan have been lobbying the US for a long, long time, going back to the collapse of the USSR. Just because India claims to be non-aligned doesn't mean they can't lobby the US for favors or, at the very least, promote anti-Pakistan agenda.

But this is getting off-topic.

Even if One accepts ur version of India lobbying hard the US like pakistan did , it can only go back to early 1990s when we had no USSR in existence. The reasons for India not lobbying or being considered another 3rd rate partner to US and its west was precisely what indian leaders felt or believed !! they thought that teaming with them is never going to be respectful we wud still be considered slaves and though India wasn't a communist country , it drew a lot of influences from it.. to be precise socialism, influence of Soviet Union ideals and a part of british parliament.. Only after Neo-economists in India started looking towards west and their model of governance after 1990s crisis, India started to believe itself and engaged western powers...

Now u may quote few examples where India has approached US for help, like the time when Indo-china war i n 1962, but mostly those r isolated incidents, and of course no body is essentially independent when u have 2 aggressive superpowers !!

 

[dvk1982]

Precisely my point.



As I stated earlier, it will set a precedent for countries to sell civilian nuclear technology to Pakistan. All this talk of responsible/irresponsible goes out the window once the checkbook comes out. The challenge for Pakistan is to develop its economy (and collect proper taxes from its deadbeat tax evaders) to wield a bigger checkbook.

yep i do agree to u to an extent... China can help pakistan officially once it can match US eye to eye .. Its going to take time . may be a decade or 2. If u observe, this Indo-US deal is a misnomer, its actually a World-Indo deal, but the way things work, unless u have permission from the US, nobody can come forward to engage u officially esp nuclear, space, missile technologies...