What's new

Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.
kingQamaR said:
Prisoners of War so that is illegal?
Click to expand...
Putting POW on a trial is illegal let alone sentence them to death, you can only tried anyone if there are explicit evidence that that person committed war crime. Otherwise law of war does not allow people to be prosecuted simply because they were fighting on the other side. Fighting for its country is not a crime according to Law of War. Killing civilian intentionally, making unnecessary destruction is considered crime against humanity, otherwise known as war crime.
 
. .
Jesus, people need to know what happened in Sieverodonetsk before making comment.

Russia is doing its Russian thing, put Infantry in, if it meet resistance, pull out, then send in the artillery, and then move back in after artillery, if there are still resistance, then rinse and repeat.

What Ukraine is doing at the moment is called "Dynamic Defence" when Russia attack, put up a fight, then when the Russia pull back, Ukrainian themselves pull back to some place else and let the Russia Bomb the area, and either choose to defend another sector or continue to defend that area.

This is the same tactics the Vietcong fought us in Vietnam war, when US attack enmasse, they put up a fight, then US call in artillery and air strike, the smooch on and defend somewhere. This tactics is aimed to taken as many attacker life while preserving theirs.

It's not "Russian made massive gain" when they reincur in the city, or "Ukrainian beat a hasty retreat" when they relocate.
 
. .
SalarHaqq said:
No. Viktor Yanukovych did obtain a majority of votes at Ukraine's 2010 runoff presidential election indeed.

The two candidates' scores amounted to:

* Viktor Yanukovych : 48,95%
* Yulia Timoshenko : 45,47%



Because those 48,95% (not 48,6%) relate to overall expressed votes, that is including invalid and blank ballots as well as votes for a special third option offered by the Ukrainian electoral system, termed "Against all" (i.e. an expression of opposition to both candidates).

Indeed, here's what the latter two voting choices garnered:

* Against all : 4,36%
* Invalid (and blank) : 1,19%

Unlike the US system for instance, where ballots do not include an "Against all" option, and where the announced final result does not account for invalid and blank votes, in Ukraine it does.

Elsewhere the percentage of valid votes obtained by each candidate is considered, in Ukraine however they go with the percentage of expressed votes, and moreover the Ukrainian election features that extra voting option ("Against all") absent from equivalent elections in other countries.

If we leave out "Against all" votes and invalid / blank ones, in other terms if we only count votes given to either Yanukovych or Timoshenko, Yanukovych won the election with an absolute majority of over 51,84% (48,95 x 100 / (48,95+45,47)).



That's correct.

And guess who is agreeing with me on the democratically elected part? None other than international observers dispatched by the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) as well as the PACE (Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe) to monitor the election.

The OSCE said there were no indications of serious fraud and described the vote as an "impressive display" of democracy. Source:

www.theguardian.com

Yanukovych set to become president as observers say Ukraine election was fair

• Yulia Tymoshenko under pressure to concede defeat• Monitors praise 'impressive display' of democracy
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Link to the PACE statement: https://pace.coe.int/en/news/2753
Click to expand...
Easy on the man, he's American after all, probably never heard of blank votes

www.linternaute.com

Vote blanc : est-il comptabilisé au 2e tour des législatives ? Comment voter blanc ?

Le vote blanc a séduit 1,77 % des électeurs lors du premier tour des élections législatives anticipées. Est-il comptabilisé ? Comment faire pour voter blanc au second tour ? Est-ce vraiment pos...
www.linternaute.com www.linternaute.com
 
.
_Nabil_ said:
Easy on the man, he's American after all, probably never heard of blank votes

www.linternaute.com

Vote blanc : est-il comptabilisé au 2e tour des législatives ? Comment voter blanc ?

Le vote blanc a séduit 1,77 % des électeurs lors du premier tour des élections législatives anticipées. Est-il comptabilisé ? Comment faire pour voter blanc au second tour ? Est-ce vraiment pos...
www.linternaute.com www.linternaute.com
Click to expand...
I have, in fact, that's how my wife vote on the last Australian election back in May 21 last month. Me, I just wrote 1 to 10 randomly, and no, I am not just an American, I lived most of 2000s and early 2010s in Europe (UK, Sweden and Ukraine) and are citizen for two of those countries.

And as I said, his post is faulty, first he said the invalid and non-preferred counted in Ukrainian election, which is correct.

Unlike the US system for instance, where ballots do not include an "Against all" option, and where the announced final result does not account for invalid and blank votes, in Ukraine it does.
Click to expand...

and then come around and say if those were not counted toward total tally, then Yanukovych would have 51.84% vote

If we leave out "Against all" votes and invalid / blank ones, in other terms if we only count votes given to either Yanukovych or Timoshenko, Yanukovych won the election with an absolute majority of over 51,84% (48,95 x 100 / (48,95+45,47)).
Click to expand...

Sure, if we do not count the preference option and just the two party result on the last Australian Federal Election (The 1 -10 I said before), ScoMo would still be in power. But that's not how the election work, those vote are counted toward the total Tally but not toward either candidate, so no, Yanukovych did not have 51.84% of vote. And by Ukrainian Constitution, either candidate have to have over half (ie over 50%) of the vote to be elected President, so Yanukovych is not elected.

And that you don't even need to know how Ukrainian election work to know.
 
Last edited:
. .
.
jhungary said:
I have, in fact, that's how my wife vote on the last Australian election back in May 21 last month. Me, I just wrote 1 to 10 randomly, and no, I am not just an American, I lived most of 2000s and early 2010s in Europe (UK, Sweden and Ukraine) and are citizen for two of those countries.

And as I said, his post is faulty, first he said the invalid and non-preferred counted in Ukrainian election, which is correct.



and then come around and say if those were not counted toward total tally, then Yanukovych would have 51.84% vote



That's not how the election work, those vote are counted toward the total Tally but not toward either candidate, so no, Yanukovych did not have 51.84% of vote. And by Ukrainian Constitution, either candidate have to have over half (ie over 50%) of the vote to be elected President, so Yanukovych is not elected.
Click to expand...
You got it right then you got it wrong in the end,

Blank votes are counted for their political weight (were considered invalid votes before) to give the people that have been physically present in elections but are against both candidates a voice.

Their total tally isn't considered in determining the winner of elections, just like the people that registered to elections but didn't voted or the invalid votes.

If you understand the French this article explain it much better than I did


jhungary said:
Putting POW on a trial is illegal let alone sentence them to death, you can only tried anyone if there are explicit evidence that that person committed war crime. Otherwise law of war does not allow people to be prosecuted simply because they were fighting on the other side. Fighting for its country is not a crime according to Law of War. Killing civilian intentionally, making unnecessary destruction is considered crime against humanity, otherwise known as war crime.
Click to expand...
Isn't forbidden for people to fight for another country, entity,...?

Isn't considered terrorism?
 
. . .
_Nabil_ said:
You got it right then you got it wrong in the end,

Blank votes are counted for their political weight (were considered invalid votes before) to give the people that have been physically present in elections but are against both candidates a voice.

Their total tally isn't considered in determining the winner of elections, just like the people that registered to elections but didn't voted or the invalid votes.

If you understand the French this article explain it much better than I did

Click to expand...

Go back to the TASS article I quote on reply to his post.

Blank vote counted toward the total tally as it stated the applicant have to obtain half of "Total Number of votes", that mean all the vote including the vote for the 2 candidate, the blank vote and invalid vote."

It may be how "French" work on their election, this is not how it work on Ukraine....

Also, if I was correct at the beginning, then I have to be correct in the end, because if I am not, that mean the definition of "Blank and Invalid" vote changes as the first part is "Blank and Invalid" vote counted in Ukrainian Election.

_Nabil_ said:
Isn't forbidden for people to fight for another country, entity,...?

Isn't considered terrorism?
Click to expand...
Show me where in International Law said that you cannot become a foreign citizen and join a foreign army.

International Law only forbade "Non-State" actor to participate in warfare, and that's only applies to "Personal Gain" otherwise all NGO (Red Cross, MSF and so on) working in a warzone is not protected. A person move to another country and join the military in that country is allowed. And once he signed up for the national service, you are then a party of a state. This applies to

US (Where you can join US Military with a green card without Citizenship and get Citizenship upon deployment, also selective service, the US Draft, which include non-Citizens)
UK (Where commonwealth citizen can join the British Military and gain Citizenship)
French (Foreign Legion, duh)
Israel (It does not matter if you are a foreign citizen, you need to serve Israeli Defence Force)
Australia (Australia allow Permanent Resident to join the Military and grant citizenship upon 140 days of service)
And almost all European Country and South American country.

Those people does not qualify as Non-State Actor and they are not doing it for personal gain. They wear uniform identify themselves as a party of state, they were acting on behalf of a State, and they are engaging in combat duty that State are currently engaging to, and more importantly, both the British (Not sure about the Moroccan) are Ukrainian Citizens.

Tell me where this broke the law of war regarding enemy combatant??
 
.

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 9​

Jun 9, 2022 - Press ISW
Download the PDF

Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, and Mason Clark
June 9, 6:45 pm ET​
Click here to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces are continuing to deploy outdated military equipment to Ukraine to replace losses. The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on June 9 that Russian forces are mining Kherson Oblast with mines from the 1950s to defend against recent Ukrainian counterattacks in northwestern Kherson Oblast.[1] The GUR stated that Russian forces moved these mines from Russia’s Rostov Oblast to the Kherson area despite the fact the mines were meant to be destroyed. The GUR claimed that some of the mines detonated during the transportation processes and killed Russian sappers from the 49th Combined Arms Army. The GUR’s report is consistent with previous statements that Russian forces are moving old and obsolete equipment to Ukraine to make up for equipment losses, including deploying T-62 tanks to the Melitopol area and pulling MLRS and 152mm howitzers from storage in Irkutsk, Siberia.[2]
Russian military command continues to face pervasive issues with force generation. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian officials in Luhansk Oblast have had to reduce their mobilization efforts due to widespread protests against aggressive mobilization efforts that have taken a toll on the labor market in Luhansk.[3] Attacks on Russian military recruitment offices are additionally continuing.[4] An unidentified assailant threw a Molotov cocktail at the military commissariat in Vladivostok, which is the eighteenth such reported attack on Russian territory since the beginning of the war. As Russian officials escalate mobilization efforts over the background of continued losses in Ukraine, they will continue to run the risk of instigating public dissent and pushback against such recruitment practices.
Key Takeaways
  • Russian officials are increasingly taking over governmental positions in occupied Ukrainian territory, advancing the Kremlin's likely efforts to annex occupied areas of Ukraine into Russia as an okrug (federal district).
  • Russian forces continued to fight for the Azot industrial zone in Severodonetsk under the cover of heavy artillery fire.
  • Russian forces made marginal gains north of Slovyansk but are likely to face difficulties assaulting the city itself because of the tactical challenges posed by crossing the Siverskyi Donets River.
  • Russian forces made incremental advances to the east of Bakhmut and will continue efforts to cut Ukrainian lines of communication to the northeast of Bakhmut.
  • Russian forces are likely engaged in limited fighting along occupied frontiers in northern Kharkiv Oblast.
  • Russian forces continue to focus on strengthening defensive lines along the Southern Axis and are intensifying ground attacks in northeastern Zaporizhia Oblast with the support of troop and equipment rotations.

We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
  • Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
  • Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
  • Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
  • Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
  • Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)
Russian forces continued to attack Ukrainian positions in Severodonetsk under the cover of heavy artillery fire on June 9. Ukrainian and Russian sources confirmed that Russian forces control all residential sectors of the city and that fighting is ongoing for the Azot industrial zone, where Ukrainian forces are embedded.[5] Russian forces continued unsuccessful efforts to take control of Toshkivka to drive north toward Lysychansk and avoid crossing the Siverskyi Donets River from within Severodonetsk.[6] Russian forces conducted heavy air and artillery strikes in and around Severodonetsk to support ground operations in the city.[7]

Russian forces continued efforts to advance on Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and made marginal territorial gains north of Slovyansk on June 9.[8] Russian forces are likely seeking to leverage their control of the area around Sviatohirsk to move southwards toward Slovyansk, but are unlikely to have seized the settlement as of June 9 due to Ukrainian resistance in the area and Russian milblogger Swodki claimed that Russian forces captured Pryshyb and Tetyanivka (both about 20 km north of Slovyansk) on June 9, though ISW cannot confirm this claim.[9] Russian efforts to move toward Slovyansk are likely hindered by the Siverskyi Donets River, which they will have to successfully cross to the north (around Sviatohirsk-Tetyanivka) and east of Slovyansk (around Raihorodok) in order to push toward the city.[10]
Russian forces continued ground, air, and artillery attacks east of Bakhmut and made incremental gains on June 9. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops had partial success in Komyshuvakha (northeast of Bakhmut) and Roty (southeast of Bakhmut).[11] Russian forces additionally continued unsuccessful attacks on Nahirne and Mykolaivka.[12]

Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)
Russian forces continued to defend their occupied frontiers and fire on Ukrainian positions in northern Kharkiv Oblast on June 9.[13] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are focusing on engineering, fortification, and mining to strengthen their defensive lines north of Kharkiv City.[14] Russian Telegram channels additionally claimed that Russian troops re-took control of Ternova and Varvarivka, both settlements northeast of Kharkiv City near the international border.[15] While ISW cannot independently confirm the status of Ternova or Varvarivka, these claims indicate that Russian forces are still engaged in fighting along the frontline in northern Kharkiv Oblast.[16] Certain Russian sources indicated that Ukrainian forces may be conducting limited counterattacks in this area, which is consistent with Russian reports of continued positional battles in this area.[17]

Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)
Russian forces focused on strengthening their defensive lines and firing on Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis on June 9.[18] Deputy Chief of the Main Operations Department of the Ukrainian General Staff Oleksiy Gromov stated that Russian forces are conducting a positional defense in Zaporizhia and Mykolaiv Oblasts (using fortifications and attempting to hold all of their captured terrain).[19] Head of the Zaporizhia Regional State Administration Oleksandr Starukh reported that Russian forces in Zaporizhia have received 80 new tanks over the last month and that Rosgvardia units rotated out of the area and were replaced with forces from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR).[20] Russian troop rotations are likely meant to support operations in northeastern Zaporizhia Oblast along the Orikhiv-Huliapole line, where Russian troops have been conducting ground attacks and escalating hostilities to push toward the Zaporizhia-Donetsk Oblast borders.[21]

Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)
Russian authorities are escalating efforts to consolidate governmental control of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) and other occupied Ukrainian territories. Independent Russian news source Meduza cited unnamed Kremlin officials and claimed that the Kremlin hopes to unite the DNR, LNR, and occupied Kherson and Zaporizhia into a singular Russian okrug (federal district).[22] Meduza’s statement is consistent with reports that an increasing number of former Russian officials are ascending into senior positions within the governments of the DNR and LNR, including a former governor of Russia’s Kurgan Oblast taking on the role of first deputy chairman of the LNR and a former Russian transportation official ascending to the role of deputy prime minister of the DNR.[23] New Prime Minister of the DNR Vitaly Khotsenko, who was appointed to the position on June 8, announced that his government will synchronize DNR legislation with Russian legislation and Head of the DNR Denis Pushilin announced the DNR has partnered financially with Russia's state-owned Promsvyazbank.[24] Russian authorities likely established a civil-military administration in occupied parts of Kharkiv Oblast, which is analogous to the current Russian-backed military administrations in Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts.[25] Such efforts to consolidate governmental control of occupied areas through the direct installation of Russian leadership is a major indicator that the Kremlin is attempting to unify efforts to annex occupied regions directly into the Russian Federation.
 
.
jhungary said:
Go back to the TASS article I quote on reply to his post.

Blank vote counted toward the total tally as it stated the applicant have to obtain half of "Total Number of votes", that mean all the vote including the vote for the 2 candidate, the blank vote and invalid vote."

It may be how "French" work on their election, this is not how it work on Ukraine....

Also, if I was correct at the beginning, then I have to be correct in the end, because if I am not, that mean the definition of "Blank and Invalid" vote changes as the first part is "Blank and Invalid" vote counted in Ukrainian Election.
Click to expand...

X : total voters 1000
Y : Blank votes : 40
Z : Invalid votes : 10
V : Valid votes : X-Y-Z = 950

A : votes for Mr Y : 490
B : votes for Mr W: 460

% Y : A/V = 490/950= 51,58%
% W : B/V = 460/950 = 48.42%


Dunno how Ukrainian counting system can differ from the above.

jhungary said:
Show me where in International Law said that you cannot become a foreign citizen and join a foreign army.

International Law only forbade "Non-State" actor to participate in warfare, and that's only applies to "Personal Gain" otherwise all NGO (Red Cross, MSF and so on) working in a warzone is not protected. A person move to another country and join the military in that country is allowed. And once he signed up for the national service, you are then a party of a state. This applies to

US (Where you can join US Military with a green card without Citizenship and get Citizenship upon deployment, also selective service, the US Draft, which include non-Citizens)
UK (Where commonwealth citizen can join the British Military and gain Citizenship)
French (Foreign Legion, duh)
Israel (It does not matter if you are a foreign citizen, you need to serve Israeli Defence Force)
Australia (Australia allow Permanent Resident to join the Military and grant citizenship upon 140 days of service)
And almost all European Country and South American country.

Those people does not qualify as Non-State Actor and they are not doing it for personal gain. They wear uniform identify themselves as a party of state, they were acting on behalf of a State, and they are engaging in combat duty that State are currently engaging to, and more importantly, both the British (Not sure about the Moroccan) are Ukrainian Citizens.

Tell me where this broke the law of war regarding enemy combatant??
Click to expand...
Here in Tunisia, if you fight in any external war, you are considered a terrorist and terrorist laws are applicable. Seems logical to me.....

But if the English pow are Ukrainians citizens, should be treated like any other Ukrainian pow.
 
.
Russian oil exports were last week 10% down, but their revenues, due to price increases, were actually up 50% (source: International Energy Agency). The Russian oil firm Lukoil suggested that export be reduced 30% to maximise profit and save on production and transport costs. Now, the eu has said it will eventually stop buying oil from Russia, which will again increase the price. Even selling at a 20% discountprofit will be maintained. Sanctions are hurting everyone, and the longer they're applied for, the worse it will be, globally
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Muhammed45
  • Poll
Poll : Will Russia use nuclear and WMD weapons against Ukraine?
Replies
3
Views
810
Muhammed45
Muhammed45
_NOBODY_
Russia's energy empire: Putin and the rise of Gazprom | DW
Replies
0
Views
2K
_NOBODY_
_NOBODY_
DF41
And once again the mentally ill are spreading the roumour that the Russians want to fire on themselves at ZNPP.
Replies
0
Views
447
DF41
DF41
beijingwalker
Nightmares: If Ukraine Loses
2 3 4 5
Replies
60
Views
5K
Han Patriot
H
Muhammed45
Russian Military Regains Complete Control Over Kherson Islands Amidst Ongoing Conflict
Replies
8
Views
653
Get Ya Wig Split
Get Ya Wig Split

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Military Forum Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom