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First they said the Ukrainians are giving stiff resistance because Russia is actually fighting NATO and not the Ukrainians. Now they claim the Ukrainians as former Russians are the one of the strongest and the best in the world because of Russian mentality.:woot:

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@jhungary @F-22Raptor @Wood

Who exactly is "they"? Official Russian military spokesmen? Or random person, on random tv debate in Russia, having specific lines of a conversation taken out of context, and used to push a certain narrative?

Poor americans... they have been force fed soo much state propaganda by their shitstream media from birth.... That they literally dont even know anymore, and cant state what a "woman" is.. Because their media told them so.... i feel bad for you old man...




RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 20​

May 20, 2022 - Press ISW
ISW%20LOGO%20FINAL%20ACRONYM%20%20%20NAME_ISW%20LOGO%20FINAL%20ACRONYM%20NAME%20CMYK_422.png

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Karolina Hird, Frederick W. Kagan, and George Barros
May 20, 5:30 ET
Russian forces are focusing on digging in and reinforcing defensive positions in Kharkiv and along the Southern Axis in preparation for Ukrainian counteroffensives, while the majority of active offensive operations remain confined to Izyum-Donetsk City arc and especially the Popasna-Severodonetsk area.
The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are creating secondary defensive lines on the Southern Axis, indicating that the Russian grouping in this area may be preparing for a major Ukrainian counter-offensive and a protracted conflict. Russian forces reportedly are holding defensive positions north of Kharkiv City following the success of the Ukrainian counteroffensive since May 5 and have conducted limited spoiling attacks either to give Russian forces time to complete their redeployment back to Russia in good order or to allow reinforcements to arrive to defend territory in Kharkiv Oblast. Significant Russian offensive operations are confined to the area of Severodonetsk. Russian troops have made marginal gains to the north, west, and south of the city, especially around Popasna, in order to attempt to take control of Severodonetsk.
Key Takeaways

  • Russian forces may have made marginal gains to the north, west, and south of Popasna in order to continue their offensive on Severodonetsk from the south.
  • Russian sources may be overstating the number of Ukrainian defenders who have been evacuated from Azovstal to either maximize the number of Russian prisoners of war who may be exchanged for Ukrainian soldiers or to avoid the embarrassment of admitting they have been locked into a months-long siege against only “hundreds” of Ukrainian soldiers.
  • Russian troops reportedly regained certain positions taken by the Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City.
  • Russian forces are likely preparing for a major Ukrainian counteroffensive and protracted conflict on the Southern Axis.
Assessed Control of Terrain in Ukraine

We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, ”Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort.:


    • Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
    • Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
    • Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;
    • Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
    • Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)

Russian forces conducted unspecified offensive operations in the direction of Slovyansk but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[ii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are attempting to erect a pontoon bridge over the Severskyi Donets River in the vicinity of Yaremivka, about 25 kilometers southeast of Izyum in the direction of Slovyansk.[iii] Russian forces additionally conducted artillery strikes on Dovhenke and Dolyna, both southeast of Izyum heading towards Slovyansk.[iv]
Russian forces reportedly intensified efforts to break through Ukrainian defenses around Popasna in order to push towards Severodonetsk from the south on May 20. Pro-Russian news sources reported that Russian forces made advances through Ukrainian lines of defense in three directions. Russian Airborne (VDV) forces reportedly took control of Volodymirivka and Lypove, and broke through Ukrainian defenses in Komyshuvakha, all north of Popasna.[v] Troops of the Russian ”Wagner” Private Military Company reportedly took control of Trypillya and Vyskrivka to the west of Popasna.[vi] Ukrainian sources noted that offensive operations are on-going in Vyskrivka.[vii] Russian forces additionally reportedly took control of Troitske, south of Popasna.[viii] Such reports are consistent with Ukrainian General Staff statements that the Russian grouping around Popasna is trying to take new frontiers in the area.[ix] NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management (FIRMS) data, however, does not show a concentration of fires in this area, which may suggest that the Russian sources are exaggerating the scale or significance of the attacks, although the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this case.[x] The purported encirclement of the Popasna area may be an effort to break through Ukrainian defenses in order to provide support for the on-going battle for Severodonetsk, where Russian troops are making marginal gains and reportedly took control of Shchedryshcheve and Syrotne, just north of Severodonetsk.[xi]
Russian forces reportedly made marginal gains during ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on May 20. Pro-Russian Telegram channels stated that Russian forces are trying to encircle a Ukrainian grouping around Svyatohirsk and are storming Yarova, both west of Lyman and within 10 kilometers of the border with Kharkiv Oblast.[xii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are continuing offensive operations around Lyman and will likely continue to push west to meet Russian forces in Southern Kharkiv Oblast.[xiii] Russian forces are additionally conducting unsuccessful assault operations around Donetsk City in the vicinity of Avdiivka and Novobakhmutivka.[xiv]

Control of Terrain Around Luhansk

Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)
Russian sources may be overstating the number of Ukrainian defenders who have been evacuated from the Azovstal Steel Plant as of May 20. Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu stated that nearly 2,000 Ukrainian fighters have left Azovstal since evacuations began, whereas the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) reported that it has registered only “hundreds” of Ukrainian prisoners of war.[xv] The discrepancy could result merely from delays in ICRC registrations or reporting. Official Russian sources may also be obfuscating the true number of evacuees for various reasons, however. The Russians might claim that they have captured more Ukrainian soldiers than they actually did in order to maximize the number of Russian prisoners that can be exchanged should they agree on a prisoner swap with Ukraine. The Russian leadership may also seek to avoid the embarrassment of admitting that their forces have been locked in a months-long siege by ”hundreds” rather than ”thousands” of Ukrainian defenders. Commander of the Azov Regiment Denis Prokopenko additionally stated that he has given the command to stop the defense of Mariupol to save the lives of the defenders of Azovstal, so evacuation numbers will likely rise in the coming days.[xvi]
The Ukrainian General Staff reports that Russian forces are continuing filtration measures in Mariupol.[xvii] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko additionally made a number of claims that ISW cannot independently verify. He asserted that Russian troops are planning to use filtration camps in Mariupol to forcibly mobilize men into the militia of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR).[xviii] He claimed that the Russian occupation administration in Mariupol is planning a census for men aged 18 to 50 to further force mobilization into the DNR.[xix] He also asserted that four schools in Mariupol are set to open by the end of May under ”Russian standards and Russian programs,” with a full implementation of Russian curricula reportedly slated for fall of 2022.[xx] Andryushchenko’s claims are consistent with overall trends of filtration and occupation processes in Mariupol that ISW has been able to verify through other sources, although these particular claims are unverified at this time.
Mariupol

Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)
Russian forces focused on regaining positions taken by Ukrainian forces during the counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City on May 20.[xxi] Russian forces are reportedly fighting in Vesele, Tsyrkuny, Zolochiv, and Ternova and may have recaptured Ternova and Rubizhne, although ISW cannot independently confirm these claims at this time.[xxii] Such efforts are likely spoiling attacks meant to disrupt the Ukrainian counteroffensive in northern Kharkiv Oblast with the intention of either buying Russian forces time to withdraw and redeploy to other axes of advance or to reinforce defensive positions to the north of Kharkiv City. Russian forces additionally continued to shell Kharkiv City and its environs, likely to further distract Ukrainian forces from cohering offensive actions towards the Russian border.[xxiii]
Mariupol

Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)

Russian forces focused on strengthening existing defensive lines and creating secondary defensive lines on the Southern Axis but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[xxiv] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are bringing engineering equipment to frontlines on the Southern Axis to construct a second line of defense, which likely indicates that Russian forces are preparing to defend against possible Ukrainian counter-offensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.[xxv] Russian forces conducted rocket, missile, and artillery attacks against Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, and Odesa Oblasts.[xxvi]
The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian special services are continuing to destabilize the situation in Transnistria through disseminating disinformation about the mining of social infrastructure and state institutions in Tiraspol, Bender, Dubossary, and Rybnytsia.[xxvii]
Kherson

Immediate items to watch


    • Russian forces will likely complete their withdrawal from the vicinity of Kharkiv City but attempt to hold a line west of Vovchansk to defend their GLOCs from Belgorod to Izyum. It is unclear if they will succeed.
    • The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
    • Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.

no credible military would use the term "evacuate" to describe the mass surrender at azovstal.. that alone is enough to throw this piece into the same trash pile as your everyday CNN propaganda. please dont post such long gibberish, nonesense.. once they learn the difference between a "surrender" and a "evacuation" then they can start doing some complex analysis..

Learn the Basic ABCs before trying to write paragraphs.
 
We’ll see how long Russia can control the coast once Ukraine begins receiving 250-300km Harpoon and NSM missiles.
Harpoon coastal defence
Denmark decommissioned the Harpoon coastal defence system years ago. Knowing Denmark, they are probably stored somewhere all forgotten. I noticed land based launcher platforms are limited. Maybe Ukraine are going to recieve those.
 
Never said that.

Well, I am saying it

Tomato Tomato… same same

US became dominant world power on the back of victory in WW2, where it safely could churn out massive war machinery, because it had the industrial power to do so. Rest of the world was in ruin. So the world was there to be taken, with only the Soviet acting as a somewhat millitary counterweight. But Soviet never was a industrial or economic superpower the way China is.'

Well, usually if someone said "Same Same" it's not,...

The reason why US is dominant after WW2 is because of the money US lent to Europe to reconstruction, which lead to Europe adopt a US debt system, which leads to USD become the world currency reserve and Bretton Woods system being abolished and de-pegged with Gold.

This have nothing to do with Military. We are talking about post war, US had not expanded their territories since 1840s after we took Texas and California off Mexico.

And I would not say China is a "Economic Superpower" again, being Rich and being powerful are two different concept,

China is very different from Russia and North Korea, both economically and industrial. China dosent rely on setting boots on the ground and historically hasnt been a nation that force its ideology on other nations. So it dosent have to fight constant war, or export its societal model in order to influence other nations. This goes way back to the time of Silk Roads.

Neither did North Korea or to some extend Russia.

Again, in terms of Governance, it is similar, of course there are going to be different, but it is minimal.

By contrast its the Peoples Bank that keeps USD value higher vis avis CNY, by buying and taking USD out from the market.
Central Bank have no choice, because China is export driven economy, a high value Yuan is bad for business (as I explained before) And this exact action is what Currency Domination is all about. US basically made their currency into a commodity.

It is not the Chinese Central Bank choose to do it, they HAVE TO do it.

Also, There are no such things as People Bank, there is a Renmin Bank, but that was a commercial bank, not the central bank that control monetary policy


They are not gonna relocate to Europe or America. Maybe relocate to other developing nations like India, but then again you just create a counterwight to China, creating another powerhouse, which in the end will trade with China, both will become more powerful than today, hastening Multipolarity. That is exactly what i meant with Checkmated. In order for US to have allies and influence in Asia, it has to create big counterweights to China. Asian nations are reluctant to forge any millitary alliance against China and you end up with actually diluting US relative power.

Hmm, I don't know about Europe, but US has started "Made in America" policy since Trump is in office

US has already relocated more than 45% of production back to US, and Biden aiming at the end of his term all essential material are made in US.


Also, the Current Russian war and COVID pandemic has taught US and Europe that they can no longer depend on a single source of product, which mean they are going to diversify their investment. Which mean they do not just going to create a counteract to China, but everywhere, and being the riches nations on earth, they have the financial means to do so, which lower the risk of being blackmailing into ana action, hence no checkmate.

And well, there are ALWAYS military alliance against China. As long as the Chinese government act like the current one. There are no better advertisement than a "Strong and Bully" China to have country like Japan, South Korea, India, Vietnam fall in line. It's like NATO, the more Russia push, the more people want to join NATO. Again, you cannot threaten someone not joining an alliance against you, that would only make them want to join more.




And the US economy contracted waaay more. China didnt grow, yes, but calling 0,2% growth for tanked is a exaggeration, compared to the conditions in the rest of the world. OTOH China already has a massive base where 4-5% growth is good enough to add trillions every year.

China population growth is very slow these days, creating some labor shortages in certain sectors. So they themselves are gonna start outsourcing labor intensive industries (Guess to where!?). Compared to 15 years ago, the service sector makes up a much bigger cake of total GDP, i believe its close to 60% of GDP. Making it less vulnerable to export as it used to be. There is also a emerging market next door in Asia, and big markets in Latin America, Africa that also demand cheap goods.

Actually, no

First of all, both US and China projected grow are set back with 0.2% (2,6->2.4 for US, 5.0-4.8 for China) but that means literally nothing in the US because US are a matured economy. They do not dump money into the economy to develop more because they can't develop more

However, China depends on that growth to maintain the developmental stage of that country, which mean any shrinking would mean less budget to put into future development (Which is a problem US do not have) which would start a negative cycle on economy downturn.

And finally, service industry in China is around 54.5%, it is around 83 % in the US. China is still depends on export as it is roughly account for 39-40% while Primary Product are down to 7.3%, so yes, even tho that dependence weened, it is by no mean no relevant

Comparison with Japan makes little sense.
Japan is geographically small land of 120 million people, and in many ways a US protectorate with little to say in major defence and foreign policy matters. Thats why Japan was forced to accept Plaza Accord, which broke its back and has stagnated its economy. US could do that because Japan militarily was not a match. China can confidently defi any such agreement by sheer size of its economy, population and millitary power. Trump tried, but lost. Not a shocker.

What's Plaza Accord have to do with Military Power?

First of all, Plaza Accord is a depreciation of USD against Mark, Franc and Yen. Basically all the country that signed this accord is due to economic pressures because US is threaten default to runs over the three currency. The problem for Yen is after Plaza Accord, both Germany and France joined Eurozone and adopted Euro as their currency and have the entire Europe backing, which avoided the asset burst, Japan on the other hand did not, which basically means their dependence of USD (as it is their primary trading partner back then) means all the debt they hold would worth nothing overnight.

If US wanted to do that to China, they can, again, China have no right to decide US monetary policy of course that would damage US economy, but then it would have damage China more, as there are more US asset in China than vice versa (Bond, Stock, fixed asset and so on) which mean all those US asset China is currently holding would worth nothing.......

So what are you saying is, if US will not dare to depreciate their own currency because China would invade??

More worrying for the west, China is actually becoming a very inventive country, by registering millions of patents each year. In many fields they are way ahead, like forexample drones. In high tech they are catching up fast and in some areas ahead of western tech (ref. US congress report). So again, they are not only depedent on selling cheap goods. This trend will only accelerate.

Applying patent and granting them are two separate issue, why don't you check how many patent were granted to China every year?


Also, being granted more patent (not going to use applying more patent) have no bearing with being inventive. Google Nest is probably one of the most inventive application in 2010s, how many patent does it grant to google? 3.

Just because you applying for more patent (Let alone granting them) does not make you more inventive

Good luck with getting Made in China products for mere 10-15% higher cost but produced in Europe. That wont happen with the wages here. To not talk about the profit margins. No business owner will move factories to higher cost nation and make less profit, just for sake of patriotism. It would kill many companies.

All I can say is you are clearly out of date with the market price for just about everything. Go out and see how much a "made in China" product cost now compare to "made in US" or "made in Europe"? You do know not every country in EU are as rich as Norway or Sweden or Germany, right? Places like Hungary, Bulgaria and Croatia has becoming European Factory in the recent decade, their rages are comparable to the Chinese (average on the 3 aforementioned country are about USD 20,000-24,000 a year, China is about 18,000 a year.
 
Well, I am saying it



Well, usually if someone said "Same Same" it's not,...

The reason why US is dominant after WW2 is because of the money US lent to Europe to reconstruction, which lead to Europe adopt a US debt system, which leads to USD become the world currency reserve and Bretton Woods system being abolished and de-pegged with Gold.

This have nothing to do with Military. We are talking about post war, US had not expanded their territories since 1840s after we took Texas and California off Mexico.

And I would not say China is a "Economic Superpower" again, being Rich and being powerful are two different concept,



Neither did North Korea or to some extend Russia.

Again, in terms of Governance, it is similar, of course there are going to be different, but it is minimal.


Central Bank have no choice, because China is export driven economy, a high value Yuan is bad for business (as I explained before) And this exact action is what Currency Domination is all about. US basically made their currency into a commodity.

It is not the Chinese Central Bank choose to do it, they HAVE TO do it.

Also, There are no such things as People Bank, there is a Renmin Bank, but that was a commercial bank, not the central bank that control monetary policy




Hmm, I don't know about Europe, but US has started "Made in America" policy since Trump is in office

US has already relocated more than 45% of production back to US, and Biden aiming at the end of his term all essential material are made in US.


Also, the Current Russian war and COVID pandemic has taught US and Europe that they can no longer depend on a single source of product, which mean they are going to diversify their investment. Which mean they do not just going to create a counteract to China, but everywhere, and being the riches nations on earth, they have the financial means to do so, which lower the risk of being blackmailing into ana action, hence no checkmate.

And well, there are ALWAYS military alliance against China. As long as the Chinese government act like the current one. There are no better advertisement than a "Strong and Bully" China to have country like Japan, South Korea, India, Vietnam fall in line. It's like NATO, the more Russia push, the more people want to join NATO. Again, you cannot threaten someone not joining an alliance against you, that would only make them want to join more.






Actually, no

First of all, both US and China projected grow are set back with 0.2% (2,6->2.4 for US, 5.0-4.8 for China) but that means literally nothing in the US because US are a matured economy. They do not dump money into the economy to develop more because they can't develop more

However, China depends on that growth to maintain the developmental stage of that country, which mean any shrinking would mean less budget to put into future development (Which is a problem US do not have) which would start a negative cycle on economy downturn.

And finally, service industry in China is around 54.5%, it is around 83 % in the US. China is still depends on export as it is roughly account for 39-40% while Primary Product are down to 7.3%, so yes, even tho that dependence weened, it is by no mean no relevant



What's Plaza Accord have to do with Military Power?

First of all, Plaza Accord is a depreciation of USD against Mark, Franc and Yen. Basically all the country that signed this accord is due to economic pressures because US is threaten default to runs over the three currency. The problem for Yen is after Plaza Accord, both Germany and France joined Eurozone and adopted Euro as their currency and have the entire Europe backing, which avoided the asset burst, Japan on the other hand did not, which basically means their dependence of USD (as it is their primary trading partner back then) means all the debt they hold would worth nothing overnight.

If US wanted to do that to China, they can, again, China have no right to decide US monetary policy of course that would damage US economy, but then it would have damage China more, as there are more US asset in China than vice versa (Bond, Stock, fixed asset and so on) which mean all those US asset China is currently holding would worth nothing.......

So what are you saying is, if US will not dare to depreciate their own currency because China would invade??



Applying patent and granting them are two separate issue, why don't you check how many patent were granted to China every year?


Also, being granted more patent (not going to use applying more patent) have no bearing with being inventive. Google Nest is probably one of the most inventive application in 2010s, how many patent does it grant to google? 3.

Just because you applying for more patent (Let alone granting them) does not make you more inventive



All I can say is you are clearly out of date with the market price for just about everything. Go out and see how much a "made in China" product cost now compare to "made in US" or "made in Europe"? You do know not every country in EU are as rich as Norway or Sweden or Germany, right? Places like Hungary, Bulgaria and Croatia has becoming European Factory in the recent decade, their rages are comparable to the Chinese (average on the 3 aforementioned country are about USD 20,000-24,000 a year, China is about 18,000 a year.




Ukraine is now building toward a 1 million man military and the Russian trolls don’t even realize it. The Russians are going to be outnumbered by the end of the year, and the Ukrainians armed with advanced Western weapons.
 
We’ll see how long Russia can control the coast once Ukraine begins receiving 250-300km Harpoon and NSM missiles.
MTCR not count in such a time?



Ukraine is now building toward a 1 million man military and the Russian trolls don’t even realize it. The Russians are going to be outnumbered by the end of the year, and the Ukrainians armed with advanced Western weapons.
Numbers dont win wars. Just look at the Pak-Indo scenario. If we go by numbers, India should've steam rolled Pakistan in all its wars and control all of Kashmir. But they havent...
 
Hopefully Ukraine is going to win this war. But I honestly doubt Ukraine is any better than Russia carrying out offensive operations. I think it is going to be one long artillery duel with a static front line.

The tide is shifting in Ukraines favor, in both numbers and weapons. I believe Ukraines defense minister Reznikov stated the next couple months will be a hard slog, attritional warfare. But things will begin to turn in Ukraines favor by autumn and winter.

Ukraines military is slowly getting stronger.

MTCR not count in such a time?


Numbers dont win wars. Just look at the Pak-Indo scenario. If we go by numbers, India should've steam rolled Pakistan in all its wars and control all of Kashmir. But they havent...


It’s the numbers plus armed with advanced Western weapons. Ukraines military is now funded until the end of the year by the US. Ukraine is getting stronger, slowly.
 
Even if this war continues for 10-20 years till then Ukraine will be almost 80% without coast line.... That's a tragedy....
That’s not a certainty. Life will be hell. There won’t be no peace. Russia must maintain a large occupation army to fight any resistance and rebellion. Putin will erect concentration camps. He will erect gulags middle in Ukraine.
 
It’s the numbers plus armed with advanced Western weapons. Ukraines military is now funded until the end of the year by the US. Ukraine is getting stronger, slowly.
Same with India, but we saw their lack luster performance in 62 and 65
 
I know its not related to the millitary objectives, as i already pointed out.
There is a reason the US Army still is World No1.

The rationale as you said is a political question thus the answer rests on policymakers. Still i ask the question because shouldnt it matter if a millitary victory is helpful or not? Pondering those questions could help make policymakers use hard power more selectively in the future.
I think that the Taliban will certainly think twice about their policy decisions in the future.
Saddam and Gaddafi will not, unless there is a hell.

B

But wasn't kuwait stealing oil ?
Saddam invasion of kuwait was thus justified
Kuwait and Iraq are both on top of the same oil field.
Kuwait was pumping oil inside their own territory.
That is their sovereign right.
Saddams sovereign right is to do the same in Iraq.
 
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