Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

[thetutle]

Russia doesn't actually have the capabilities to invade a country like Finland where they have strong armed reserves,better equipped and organized than those in Ukraine and a strong sense of civil defense.

And with what forces do you actually expect the Russians to attack Finland ? They are stretched thin already in Ukraine where a majority of their ground forces BTGs are mobilized,all those garrisons near Finland have been emptied....

While Finland is undoubtedly very well organised, if russia attacked with 160 BTG's Finland would we well and truly screwed.

They would lose a massive amount of civilians and soldiers. It would be catastrophic. Its only a small country, to lose 30k or 40k people would be shattering. They would of course be armed by the west but ti would be very bad.

Naturally, when they join NATO, its all over. they can sleep at night again. I hope they do it soon.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Thats what you got wrong. No one here is ignoring the Greek and Roman contribution. Quite contrary. But still the Western civillization is not the same as the Classical civilization. As simple as that.

No I got nothing wrong. Classical civilization can be grouped to regions, and Greek and Roman civilization is part and parcel of western civilization. They are the same but at different ages. Simple as that.

 

[jhungary]

Yes, like i said after Ukraine baecame anti-russian.
Throwing out an elected government through paid nationalist elements, who then systematically began anti-Russian policies against eastern Ukrainian. A part of Ukraine that was/is overwhenmingly pro-Russian and has Russian majority provinces, that voted for the government that was removed from power by foreign interference.

Another point showing you know nothing about what happened in 2014.

First of all, Yanukovych government was NOT elected. It was formed after they made a deal with Tymoshenko's fatherland party. Under Ukrainian constitution, President must be elected with over 51% of vote in the second round, Yanukovych did NOT have that, he have 48.6%, what Yanukovych did not also have is Rada support. with Yanukovych's party only have 30% of the seat, fatherland have 25%.

A deal was struck between Yanukovych and Tymoshenko for Yanukovych to ratified EU ascension agreement within 3 years in order for Tymoshenko to align her and her party with Yanukovych.

Problem is, Yanukovych did not ratified the EU agreement, not even that, he throw Tymoshenko in prison. That's when Fatherland withdraw from the deal they had with Yanukovych. By the time Maidan happened, the Rada already had dissolved and an early election already had called. That is when Yanukovych bug out.

There weren't a Pro-Russian government in Ukraine since 1999 that is when Kuchma was President. In 2004, the Ukrainian elected Yushchenkoas president, whom was poisoned by Kremlin, if anything, it was widely believe that Kremlin was interfering Ukraine politic by installing Yanukovych as President, which was largely believe as a result of Election fraud.

 

[Vergennes]

Russians bringing figures out of their bottom

https://twitter.com/x/status/1524208856263540739

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

If the Ukrainian start killing Russian IN RUSSIA, I will say go for it. But then you are talking about Ukrainian killing Russian Speaking Ukrainian in Ukraine. Even if that's true, what's that have to do with Russia?

It's happening on Russia's border so they had to act. Why did NATO interviene in Kosovo? No Americans were killed, nor was it on American soil, yet the US got involved. Therefore, simply on humanitarian grounds, Russia has a right and duty to get involved, then you have the fact its ethnic Russians getting killed and happening on its border which makes it clear cut.

DONT TALK BULSHIT, YOU ARE AGAINST WEST IN HERE BUT USE THE WEST NARATIVE ( wikipedia editor) IN INDONESIA CASE

LOL 1965 IS NOT ABOUT CHINESE, BUT COMMUNIST, 99 % VICTIMS ARE NATIVE INDONESIANS

Who says you cant be anti-west and use a similar narrative they use? Why is everything so black and white with you? It's like saying a murderer is wrong if he says 1+1=2 simply because they murdered someone.

 

[Wergeland]

Although I largely agree with what you wrote, to say Christianity is not a factor is again a ridiculous revionist statement. There was no need for a Frankish bridgehead in the Levant, it just happened to be an added bonus of invasion.

Christianity played a motivating factor but the real cause of Crusades were political not religious. Religion was just a tool used by the Church and Kings.

Christianity itself had no concept similar to Jihad, so the Lords and Pope took a muslim concept and made a christian variant.

The Levant was High civilization when the crusaders entered Jerusalem. There are countless sources that describe how barbaric and primitive Franks (thats what jews and muslims called the crusaders) behaved. Crusaders were there to loot.

 

[jhungary]

While Finland is undoubtedly very well organised, if russia attacked with 160 BTG's Finland would we well and truly screwed.

They would lose a massive amount of civilians and soldiers. It would be catastrophic. Its only a small country, to lose 30k or 40k people would be shattering. They would of course be armed by the west but ti would be very bad.

Naturally, when they join NATO, its all over. they can sleep at night again. I hope they do it soon.

Where would you march 160 BTG into Finland? Finnish/Russian border is long but they are laden with Forrest and Mountain.

IT wasn't like Ukraine where you have a large opened area and straight down into town. The road to finland would be very armor unfriendly, which mean if Russian were to march troop into Finland, they either have to feed it piecemeal or have to do without armor.

That would not be a good option for the Russian, let alone the fact that can they really raise another 160 BTG.

 

[Viet]

Ah cool

The EU foreign affair chief wants the money that is seized from Russian central bank, 300 billion USD, for reconstruction of Ukraine.

Russische Devisenreserven für den Wiederaufbau der Ukraine verwenden?

Der EU-Außenbeauftragte Borrell will das von der EU eingefrorene Guthaben der russischen Zentralbank verwenden, um die Kriegsfolgen in der Ukraine zu beseitigen. Hat dieser Plan eine realistische Chance?

m.faz.net

 

[jhungary]

It's happening on Russia's border so they had to act. Why did NATO interviene in Kosovo? No Americans were killed, nor was it on American soil, yet the US got involved. Therefore, simply on humanitarian grounds, Russia has a right and duty to get involved, then you have the fact its ethnic Russians getting killed and happening on its border which makes it clear cut.


Who says you cant be anti-west and use a similar narrative they use? Why is everything so black and white with you? It's like saying a murderer is wrong if he says 1+1=2 simply because they murdered someone.

You do know KFOR is formed based on UN resolution 1244, right?

The US is involved because UN is involved. Russian also do not have any connection to it, then tell me why Russian is involved in Kosovo??

That is not the same dude. If Russia think that was a humanitarian crisis, they can raise the problem on UNSC, I don't think Russian invasion of Ukraine are sanctioned by United Nation......So, no, they have no right.

 

[Wergeland]

No I got nothing wrong. Classical civilization can be grouped to regions, and Greek and Roman civilization is part and parcel of western civilization. They are the same but at different ages. Simple as that.

I understand what you mean.
But using that argument one can argue ancient Greece and therefore also Rome was a extention of Middle east or what academics call Nile-Oxus civilization. This geographic area encompasses Greece, Levant, Arabia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Anatolia and Persia. They were all part of a interconnected area. Even to this day this is quite obvious.

The west was founded much later. Many consider the Merovingian dynasty as the awakening of the west as separate civilization.

Greece and Rome had much more trade and ciltural exchange with the middle east than it had with the area which later became the birthplace of the west.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Christianity played a motivating factor but the real cause of Crusades were political not religious. Religion was just a tool used by the Church and Kings.

Christianity itself had no concept similar to Jihad, so the Lords and Pope took a muslim concept and made a christian variant.

The Levant was High civilization when the crusaders entered Jerusalem. There are countless sources that describe how barbaric and primitive Franks (thats what jews and muslims called the crusaders) behaved. Crusaders were there to loot.

So your initial statement that it had nothing to do with Christianity was a clear overstatement and innaccurate. Motivating factors are what govern something to be intrisically involved with any given matter.

Going to war is not a Muslim concept, throughout the Bible "jihad" is waged against idol worshippers, Jesus threatened the use of swords during his ministry and that Jesus will come and smite his enemies in Book of Revelation. Next you'll blame Muslims for why there is drought or why you forgot to buy the milk!

Firstly, the Franks called themselves Franks, and still do to this day. The Crusades were largely led by Frankish armies and kings, even English plantagenet kings were more Frankish that Saxon. Muslims had nothing to do with their etymology. And yes, looting has always been a part of invasions, that's a given but not the motivating factor for beginning the Crusades.

 

[Paul2]

If I have to say, this is just like the first time we were in Iraq back in 90.

What the west does not understand is that, by not going all the way, with all the self-impose restriction, your enemy will not see your act as noble, but instead will be looked at as weakness.

What we need is to make sure Russia no longer have the capability to make another war like that. But that have to be done step by step, first by not letting this go.

regimes like China or Russia only understand power, the west only care about how to look good, but war can never fought good and clean, if you know what I mean....

It's not about weakness/strongness. Saddam would've attacked Kuwait even if he knew ahead that he will lose. He didn't care about Iraq's debt, slant drilling, or anything.

His Baathists were in crisis, and a competing internal faction was about to spring into action. Losing half of Iraq's military was an acceptable price for Baathists to defeat internal dissenters (imaginary "Iranian spies".)

There was speculation whether Saddam was preparing to attack Iran on the eve of the Gulf War, and the world only found that he was going to Kuwait a one months before the invasion. Iran was a good ideological enemy, they were both heathens, and a republic. But Kuwait was even more convenient, since they were "Iranian spies," liberal, and they had a popular king, so they were triply the heathens, and as a bonus they had no military which could retaliate for real, unlike Iranians.

I put forward following argument, and will stand for it to the end: "One party government like Iraq, Russia, China needs to fight. It requires a crisis to function." 9 times out of 10, if you see a country like China in a crisis, they made it themselves.

In the West, people think that Xi, Saddam, and Putin shot themselves in the foot, but in fact they shot into their internal enemies' foot. In China, or Russia, the head, and the foot are enemies.

In China, or Russia the party in power has 2 enemies. The first one is everybody who don't like them, and the second one is manufactured to claim that the first one is the second.

CPC always has an enemy to point a finger on, and say we are fighting them. "Work for us, or you are with the enemy", or "those Scary Taiwanese will come, and kill you." If they don't do that, nobody moves a finger in this system.



The deeper reason for crisises in totalitarian states is always that, and things like economy, "actual wars," nationalism is a cover. Mao claimed that GLF was sabotaged because of capitalists, and thus he purged capitalist spies. Coincidentally, these capitalist spies all happened to be more hardcore communists than Mao. Similarly, Deng later attacked Vietnam because CPV were "corrupt capitalist roaders," and when he lost, he went on "opening up" to outdo them when all more hardcore commies fell on their own swords.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

I understand what you mean.
But using that argument one can argue ancient Greece and therefore also Rome was a extention of Middle east or what academics call Nile-Oxus civilization. This geographic area encompasses Greece, Levant, Arabia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Anatolia and Persia. They were all part of a interconnected area.

The west was founded much later. Many consider the merivingian dynasty as the awakening of the west as separate civilization.

Greece and Rome had much more trade and ciltural exchange with the middle east than it had with the area which later became the birthplace of the west.

Well they kind of were extensions in terms of knowledge and transfer of civilisation. It's not exactly a myth that the fertile cresent and civilisation began in the middle east. They were interconnected, but that doesnt mean they were the same. Both genetically and culturally they were different. Oxus-Nile started off from the Persian Empire which governed a lot of latter empires operated. However things that are unique to western civilisation such as democracy, expansionism and fascism is found in Greek and Roman empires, not so much in Eastern civilisations.

Having trade with a different people doesnt mean you are the same as them. The fact is Rome dominated most of what one would consider the west, with the exception of America. The west was founded with Greece and Rome, nothing you can say will change that.

 

[Wergeland]

So your initial statement that it had nothing to do with Christianity was a clear overstatement and innaccurate. Motivating factors are what govern something to be intrisically involved with any given matter.

Going to war is not a Muslim concept, throughout the Bible "jihad" is waged against idol worshippers, Jesus threatened the used of swords during his ministry and that Jesus will come and smite his enemies in Book of Revelation. Next you'll blame Muslims for why there is drought or why you forgot to buy the milk!

Firstly, the Franks called themselves Franks, and still do to this day. The Crusades were largely led by Frankish armies and kings, even English plantagenet kings were more Frankish that Saxon. Muslims had nothing to do with their etymology. And yes, looting has always been a part of invasions, that's a given but not the motivating factor for beginning the Crusades.

Dude you are debating with a muslim.

Muslims called all crusaders Franks, even though they could be german, scandinavian, italian or english.

Yes my initial comment was an exageration to show that crusades were primarly a political tool. Christiany had no doctrine and still has no doctrine that is equal to jihad. Crusade is a papal invention. Thats dosent mean christianity dosent have non-pacifistic concepts. Its just very different from Islamic concepts.

 

[Wergeland]

The west was founded with Greece and Rome, nothing you can say will change that.

We then have to agree to disgree.
Using that argument we could say all human came from Africa or that all civilizations except the Chinese, was founded in Sumer.