What's new

Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.
So the ukronazis were using the "shopping mall" in Kiev as an ammo depot for the 2S7 Pion 203mm heavy mortar system. It was hit with an Iskander and some of the ammo was spread around the impact site unexploded. One commentator even wrote on facebook: Remove the second picture! The russian propaganda will use it against us.

https://****/voenacher/12640

Secondary explosions:

https://****/informatsia_obstanovka/7646

 

Attachments

  • photo_2022-03-21_00-23-37.jpg
    photo_2022-03-21_00-23-37.jpg
    54.3 KB · Views: 35
  • photo_2022-03-21_01-09-02.jpg
    photo_2022-03-21_01-09-02.jpg
    78.9 KB · Views: 30
Last edited:
.
Russians are using a lot of PGM but maybe they don't have as many PGM as they ought to or would need to pull off as alternative to unguided bombing of massive swathes of land. This is both due to unwillingness to totally level entire cities via unguided bombing runs and because there is no need. They are doing exactly what you said, using PGMs on specific targets.
A lot of PGM? I doubt it. There are several issues regarding your comment.

For starter, how do you know when the enemy is finally defeated? You do not. It does not matter if it is 'dumb' or 'smart' bombs that you dropped on him. You will find some sources on the interweb that says something like 90 days worth of munition and that is fine, but most people misunderstood that 90 days figure. It means you bring the maximum amount of bombs your airplanes can deliver at their maximum capabilities in terms of sortie rates.

Example...If you deploy 10 bombers with each capable of 10 bombs and can generate 2 sorties per day, you calculate 90 days worth of bombs from that capability. Ten bombers with 10 bombs each equals to 100 bombs, now x2 sorties per day equals to 200 bombs, then 90 days worth of bombs. But if you deploy with 20 or 30 bombers, that 90 days worth of munition will increase because you have more bombers dropping bombs on any given day. Then at the same time, you have to constantly replenish that store as you fly and drop bombs. Whether you chose to deploy with 90, or 60, or just 10 days worth of munition is up to you. That 90 days is just a reasonable unofficial standard created to allow for unexpected events that may require you to drop more bombs.

So when you said 'a lot of PGM' it is meaningless. We do not know how many VKS jets are capable of delivering PGM. Back in Desert Storm, our F-16s have LANTIRN nav pods but not targeting pods, so our F-16 pilots were not qual-ed to drop PGM, even though there were plenty of laser guided munitions for the F-111s and F-15Es. So what does 'a lot of PGM' mean? If not enough VKS jets can deliver PGM at the right places, the PGM are not credible contributors to the war.

What if the VKS did not deployed with sufficient munition in the first place, regardless of dumb/smart bombs? Why not? Maybe because of bad intelligence and analyses? So now, because of tough Ukrainian resistance, the VKS have to husband its deployed munition stores. So even if we grant you 'a lot of PGM' argument, it looks like there is not enough of that 'a lot' to make the Ukrainians submit.

Now comes more serious issues/problems for the VKS...

Here is the standard progression of USAF/USN flight training...

p6NOmgL.jpg


Am willing to bet that most of the world's air forces, including your China, have the same. Not similar, but the same for those fortunate enough to be assigned to the 'fighter' class. That is also where you get to know what 9g feels like. Believe me on this one, 9g ain't pleasant. When I was on the F-111, it was capable of 5-6g. If you ever been on a rollercoaster, that is 3g. Now imagine x3.

Anyway...According to ground testimonies, the VKS day presence is tolerable, which by Desert Storm standard mean shiddy, meaning Ukrainian ground forces can handle it, and that the VKS night presence is essentially non-existent. You may not like my use of Desert Storm to apply to the VKS but unfortunately the most successful combat air force get to set the standards for the rest, including your China, to follow.

Even if we grant that the VKS have air superiority over Ukraine, what next? Apparently, nothing. The Ukrainian Air Force does not engage air-air but instead flew to attack Russian ground forces, leaving the VKS to attack Ukrainian ground forces who reported that they can handle it. In other words, Ukrainians soldiers told Ukrainian airmen that they can take on Russian airmen. Do you have any idea how embarrassing that is for any air force? It made the air superiority gained by the VKS meaningless. After Desert Storm, the Iraqi Army was bitter towards the Iraqi Air Force. But here in Ukraine, the Ukrainian soldiers told the Ukrainian Air Force that they will be fine, so go and attack the Russians.

For the USAF, low altitude is 0-10k ft, medium altitude is 10-30k, and high altitude is 30k plus. The higher the pickle altitude the less precise and accurate where the bomb will be. That mean the best altitude for precise and accurate bomb delivery is at low altitude, even with PGM. But since the VKS retreated up to medium altitude, clearly do not have much experience with PGM, and delivering dumb bombs at medium altitude, the survivability for Ukrainian ground forces increases. So why not tell the Ukrainian Air Force to attack Russian ground forces?

I didn't know Ukraine Airforce is still operating.

Instead, Ukrainian air force fighter jets are still carrying out low-level, defensive counter-air and ground-attack sorties. Russia is still flying through contested airspace.​

Is there any wonder why the Ukrainian ground resistance have been so tough and so long? Because they do not have to worry about the VKS. Maybe 'do not' is exaggerated, but not much.

For Russian ground forces, every time they hear jets overhead, does anyone tell them it is a 'friendly'? If not, what do you think goes thru their minds and what they have to do next to try to survive?

So while in appearance that the VKS dominate Ukrainian airspace, the reality is that at best, the VKS have partial air superiority.


You missed my point here with your reply. It has nothing to do with China.
But it does.

Now that we, meaning US and China, know that the VKS is essentially a third rate air force, that elevated the PLAAF/PLAN to the next level. How much night flying does the PLAAF/PLAN have?

Go back to the training progression chart above. Just because air-air is the top, it does not mean it is the last, it means that skill is the most difficult to train. For the USAF/USN, night and air-air training intermix whenever time permit. But the reality is that US airpower with jets have been flying night combat missions since the Korean War, with Desert Storm the most visually spectacular, so we are looking at 70 yrs of night experience. The PLA is no doubt analyzing the differences between with and without night combat missions in Ukraine. Does the PLAAF/PLAN have the same type of PGM like US, laser and radar? How often does the PLAAF/PLAN train with PGM and how realistic? Day and night? Remember, the standard is 70 yrs high. The next time anyone mocks US for not daring enough to take on a peer, I will remember Ukraine and laughs. One peer down, one to go.

The fact that the VKS does not conduct sufficient daytime sorties to suppress Ukrainian ground forces and is absent at night means China could supplement Russia in this regard. But why not? Sure, it could be for %100 political reasons and that would be legitimate. But what if it is because the PLAAF/PLAN do not have sufficient experience at both day and night to make a difference? That would surely be a bad sign.

What I'm saying is when US went on adventurism, no one supplied US enemy.
Why not? But remember that China supplied North Viet Nam. So why not supplement Russia? You already promised you will save Russia economically. Why not militarily? What are you afraid of?

Here Russia is fighting a nation several times larger, much more sophisticated than Vietnam (of the Vietnam war era), and constantly supplied by others. If US was doing the war on Ukraine here instead of Russia, the USA would have lost similar numbers. Of course US would plan things differently and not endanger their equipment quite as willingly and impatiently perhaps but that's because it would have the ability to sustain this war much more than Russia has. Russia's overall GDP and productivity is less than California's.
No, we would not. The Ukrainian Air Force would have been grounded on the first day. From the second day forward? See Desert Storm.
 
.
Well, I don't know if we are watching the same battlefield.

If Ukrainian army is getting decimated, then there should not be any defence left in major city. The fact is after nearly 4 weeks (3.5 now) and not one single major city felt to Russia itself means the Ukrainian defence is still holding. Back in Iraq, we would already be peeing on Saddam Palace in Baghdad right now.

Also, as times goes by, the training of TDF will be more mature, Then you are not looking at 200000 Regular Ukrainian troop, but people who sign up for TDF would be properly equip and properly trained. There are alreadys nearly 4 weeks of training, considering US Army Basic is only 9 weeks. And we are far from a complete Russian victory. Which mean the longer this war got drag on, the more Ukrainian defender can be put into the fray and armed with EU/American weapon. That mean as times goes on, Ukrainian defensive power increases, not decreases. That is why Russia only hope is to crush Ukraine ASAP.

well , you can't win a defencsive war .... In WWII both Japan and Germeny were ultimatly beaten from the moment they counldnt carry successfull offensive opeation against their foes in their enemies land ( especially USA )
 
.
so Ukraine getting their supply depots, fuel tanks and training camps hit while they can't do the same to Russia, makes them stronger. OK.

Russians bypassing and surrounding cities, and Ukrainians unable to come out and defeat the encirclement = Russian loss. OK.
You do know they have supply depot, training station set up INSIDE Poland and Romania, right? Can Russia touch those? On the other hand, good luck for Russia try to resupply their troop when IC is blocked by Taiwan and Aluminium is blocked by Australia.

And lol, why would they need to come out and defeat the encirclement? In fact, only one city so far is "Surrounded" and that's Mariupol, and they still hold that after 25 days, and they were surrounded like since day 10 or something so.......And Russia lost 2 general trying to take it, If that is not sheer incompetence, then I don't know what is.

well , you can't win a defencsive war .... In WWII both Japan and Germeny were ultimatly beaten from the moment they counldnt carry successfull offensive opeation against their foes in their enemies land ( especially USA )
No, you can't win a defensive war, and I already said there are 80% chance Russia will conquer Ukraine.

The problem is, what next? Russia is going to face a long insurgency, do you think the Ukrainian would simply comply and accept Russia rule after they took Kyiv? The longer the war drag on, the more damage done to the city and the more Ukrainian family got torn apart by the Russian would mean a more strengthen insurgency.

If they cannot defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion, the insurgency they are going to face is enormous, you don't need that much troop to invade a city, but you will need a lot of resource to keep occupation. Which is what Russia is going to have problem in, putting resource into Ukraine to quell the upcoming insurgency.
 
. .
You do know they have supply depot, training station set up INSIDE Poland and Romania, right? Can Russia touch those? On the other hand, good luck for Russia try to resupply their troop when IC is blocked by Taiwan and Aluminium is blocked by Australia.

And lol, why would they need to come out and defeat the encirclement? In fact, only one city so far is "Surrounded" and that's Mariupol, and they still hold that after 25 days, and they were surrounded like since day 10 or something so.......And Russia lost 2 general trying to take it, If that is not sheer incompetence, then I don't know what is.
supply depots don't move weapons straight to the hands of Ukrainian soldiers. they need to be distributed to regional depots and then moved out into the field. isn't this common knowledge for a high ranking field officer like yourself? moving weapons straight from a Polish or Romanian depot to the hands of Ukrainian soldiers necessitates an obvious and easily targeted supply chain.

same for training camps. do we see Ukrainian men with guns crossing the border into Poland and then coming back out? No. In fact testimony on the ground says that men with weapons are prohibited from crossing borders. So what training camps in Poland?
 
.
Whatever may be the actual conditions of the Ukraine armed forces, in this war; their keyboard warriors, on PDF, are doing extremely well. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ich
.
Man you are just too much, it never gets boring! :lol:


Anyway, now that Selensky has refused to bow down to Russian ultimatum, from tactical point of view, what do you think about Mariupol resistance? How long can they resist it?
Yes of course, I must have go back in time (back to 2015) and wrote this article then

 
. .
supply depots don't move weapons straight to the hands of Ukrainian soldiers. they need to be distributed to regional depots and then moved out into the field. isn't this common knowledge for a high ranking field officer like yourself? moving weapons straight from a Polish or Romanian depot to the hands of Ukrainian soldiers necessitates an obvious and easily targeted supply chain.

same for training camps. do we see Ukrainian men with guns crossing the border into Poland and then coming back out? No. In fact testimony on the ground says that men with weapons are prohibited from crossing borders. So what training camps in Poland?
You are talking about supply route, not supply depot. Supply depot store supply. They don't distribute them.

And have a wild guess how many supply depot there are in Western Ukraine and care to venture a guess if the Russian got them all?? As long as Supply route is intact, supply WILL steadily flow into Ukraine into soldier hand, maybe not in the case of Mariupol, but anywhere else. And if we have to take one lesson out of the entire Vietnam war, is that no matter how much a country can interdict, you can NEVER completely taken out supply route. Otherwise we would have stave the Vietcong and win the Vietnam war.

As for Training, you do know Poland or Romania have weapon, right? They have their own military and they have their own weapon, I assume, and the fact is those weapon the US/EU gave have to go thru Poland and Romania, otherwise how do you think they are getting into Ukraine, fly them into Ukraine from the US or UK?? You don't need Ukrainian "Armed" men come in and come back out.
 
Last edited:
.
We are three weeks in. Granted, there is a high chance of guerilla warfare, but it’s also clear the Ukrainian army is getting decimated.

So is the russian military. And Ukraine is constantly resupplied

The amusing thing is, that some dont understand the bigger picture. The west simply doesnt allow Russia to take Ukraine. This entire show damages Russia beyond repair. They gain nothing, bleed out and thats it.
 
Last edited:
.
You do know they have supply depot, training station set up INSIDE Poland and Romania, right? Can Russia touch those? On the other hand, good luck for Russia try to resupply their troop when IC is blocked by Taiwan and Aluminium is blocked by Australia.

And lol, why would they need to come out and defeat the encirclement? In fact, only one city so far is "Surrounded" and that's Mariupol, and they still hold that after 25 days, and they were surrounded like since day 10 or something so.......And Russia lost 2 general trying to take it, If that is not sheer incompetence, then I don't know what is.


No, you can't win a defensive war, and I already said there are 80% chance Russia will conquer Ukraine.

The problem is, what next? Russia is going to face a long insurgency, do you think the Ukrainian would simply comply and accept Russia rule after they took Kyiv? The longer the war drag on, the more damage done to the city and the more Ukrainian family got torn apart by the Russian would mean a more strengthen insurgency.

If they cannot defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion, the insurgency they are going to face is enormous, you don't need that much troop to invade a city, but you will need a lot of resource to keep occupation. Which is what Russia is going to have problem in, putting resource into Ukraine to quell the upcoming insurgency.
"The insurgency they are going to face " has nothing to "defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion" , example are Iraq and Afghanistan ...

IMO for russians is better to kill defenders in long war while the lines are clear rather than take cities in timely fashion and then have to deal with defender in a long term insurgency ...

by moving slowly , most of Ukrainian who have will to fight them , already take arms and join defensive lines and Russians are going to kill and decimate them in a classical war ...
 
.
Yes of course, I must have go back in time (back to 2015) and wrote this article then


You are a good writer and should write a book.

Genre: Fiction, of course.

Who knows you are the next George R.R. Martin :-)
 
.
"The insurgency they are going to face " has nothing to "defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion" , example are Iraq and Afghanistan ...

IMO for russians is better to kill defenders in long war while the lines are clear rather than take cities in timely fashion and then have to deal with defender in a long term insurgency ...

by moving slowly , most of Ukrainian who have will to fight them , already take arms and join defensive lines and Russians are going to kill and decimate them in a classical war ...

You forgot that russia bleeds out economicly and is on brink of economic collapse and default
 
. .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom