Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[jhungary]

Their operations in the north was not a total failure. Within the opening hours of the war, the Russian air force managed to destroy and force the Ukrainian air force into a position where they could hardly fight back (which is what their doctrine tells them to do), which then allowed them to launch air strike after air strike on various UKR positions. They did a number on the UKR military in the north. The failure comes from the army, not the air force.

When they redeployed and focused on the east and south, they pretty much controlled the skies, and still do today. 200 sorties a day against UKR 5 sorties a day. That seems like superiority to me, considering the amount of land they took. If NATO truly wants to help UKR, them give them F16 and F15. Not more su25.

Air Force had failed.

Set aside whether or not they have been able to gain Air Superiority or even Air Dominance. The sole reason for Air Force to exist is to give the force the range they need to overcome any artillery and ground force, none of that have been done by the Russian Air Force.

In a war, you will need to contest your sky to gain air superiority so you can extend your ground range to beyond artillery range. Whether or not Russia up the tempo with the Air Force (200 sortie a day is probably a myth) or whether or not Russian limited Ukrainian Air Force capability. The ground range had not extended beyond artillery range, which mean whatever outside Russian artillery range they can't touch (except for a limited case using Ballistic/Cruise missile). If you look at what Russia captured from Ukraine, you can see at any point of their front line, they can draw a line 50km away from any of their starting position.

That in itself is a failure of the Air Force.

 

[NotSure]

. If NATO truly wants to help UKR, them give them F16 and F15. Not more su25.

And this will change exactly what? The F-15 and F-16 would be shot down by the russian SAMs probably on the first flight, even with american pilots and their good training. But with ukr. pilots and their very bad training? They could not even really use this jets effectively. And no, the AGM-88 "High-Speed-Anti-Radiation-Missile" would not change much. It's not even fast with <M2 top speed. The Ch-31 is fast, that thing is slower than the Saman-M standard target drone for russian airdef, and it has a bigger RCS.

There is no western wonderwaffl, which can turn the tide. No F-15/16/18/22/35, no ATACMs or what ever.

 

[Tornado23]

Air Force had failed.

Set aside whether or not they have been able to gain Air Superiority or even Air Dominance. The sole reason for Air Force to exist is to give the force the range they need to overcome any artillery and ground force, none of that have been done by the Russian Air Force.

In a war, you will need to contest your sky to gain air superiority so you can extend your ground range to beyond artillery range. Whether or not Russia up the tempo with the Air Force (200 sortie a day is probably a myth) or whether or not Russian limited Ukrainian Air Force capability. The ground range had not extended beyond artillery range, which mean whatever outside Russian artillery range they can't touch (except for a limited case using Ballistic/Cruise missile). If you look at what Russia captured from Ukraine, you can see at any point of their front line, they can draw a line 50km away from any of their starting position.

That in itself is a failure of the Air Force.

Isnt their performance to do with their doctrine. Unlike NATOs doctrine, isnt theirs mostly to do with denying the enemy air force the ability to use their air force against their ground troops.


It's better explained by this person

And this will change exactly what? The F-15 and F-16 would be shot down by the russian SAMs probably on the first flight, even with american pilots and their good training. But with ukr. pilots and their very bad training? They could not even really use this jets effectively. And no, the AGM-88 "High-Speed-Anti-Radiation-Missile" would not change much. It's not even fast with <M2 top speed. The Ch-31 is fast, that thing is slower than the Saman-M standard target drone for russian airdef, and it has a bigger RCS.

There is no western wonderwaffl, which can turn the tide. No F-15/16/18/22/35, no ATACMs or what ever.

Thats what Indians thought when Pakistan bought F16s in the 80s to combat the Soviets, but after 9 aircraft (some even say 11+) being shot down without a single f16 lost to enemy fire, and Indias own Mig21 and su30mki being shot down by those f16s on 27th of feb, they know better now.

 

[NotSure]

Thats what Indians thought when Pakistan bought F16s in the 80s to combat the Soviets, but after 9 aircraft (some even say 11+) being shot down without a single f16 lost to enemy fire, and Indias own Mig21 and su30mki being shot down by those f16s on 27th of feb, they know better now.

You are comparing apples and oranges. The F-15 and F-16 would have to operate above a ground, which is saturated with top tier Russian SAMs + at least 2 more layers like Buk M2/3 and Pantsir/Tor. This alone would be a suicide mission, without a single russian fighter jet.

But feel free to believe in western wonderwaffls, which can turn the tide in a lost war ...

 

[jhungary]

Isnt their performance to do with their doctrine. Unlike NATOs doctrine, isnt theirs mostly to do with denying the enemy air force the ability to use their air force against their ground troops.


It's better explained by this person

Nobody knows why Russia failed to seize advantage of their vast Air Force. If you tell me back in February that Ukrainian are still flying and still shooting down Russian Aircraft 6 months into the war, I will laugh at you and say "Get the F outta here"

By all accounts, Russian Air Force should be able to complete control the sky over Ukraine, but they didn't. And in fact, it didn't use their airforce nearly enough to a level it can dominate their opponent. Some say it is old Soviet Doctrine, some say Russian Air Force is in a depilated state a lot of them cannot fly, and some say Russia by not declaring it a war, they can't push forward all their advantage.

On the other hand, you cannot blame doctrine, Doctrine is what you trained with, but that does not dictate how people fight. In Russia case, Russia trained with Air Force only be using as secondary role (like provide CAS and so on) but that does not mean you cannot and should not alter your war plan if stuff isn't working or if things go your way.

What the guy said in the video was right up to a point, literally it up to when he made that video, which is back in Mid-March, the war is a low tempo fight, not too many big fight happened then, but when Russia start getting into the grinder (Kharkiv, Siverodonetsk, Pisky and Mykolaiv) they should have change their method of operation, and try to use the Air Force to smother the Ukrainian. Anyone have a brain would probably know the vast advantage the Russian Air Force enjoy over Ukrainian, so it would have to be stupid to not exploit that gap. But then they didn't and as I said, I don't know why.

 

[ZeGerman]

Their operations in the north was not a total failure. Within the opening hours of the war, the Russian air force managed to destroy and force the Ukrainian air force into a position where they could hardly fight back (which is what their doctrine tells them to do), which then allowed them to launch air strike after air strike on various UKR positions. They did a number on the UKR military in the north. The failure comes from the army, not the air force.

When they redeployed and focused on the east and south, they pretty much controlled the skies, and still do today. 200 sorties a day against UKR 5 sorties a day. That seems like superiority to me, considering the amount of land they took. If NATO truly wants to help UKR, them give them F16 and F15. Not more su25.

I was being sarcastic, talking about current situation where they do not (dare? Doctrine?) venture far from donbass frontlines. And ukraine airforce still operates.

All those western long range artillery and himars are doing a number on them. Where is the russian airforce??

 

[The SC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560213428521795586

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560207340288229377

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560186751943147520

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560157935300378627

 

[The SC]

 

[Ali_Baba]

Russia loses ANOTHER HQ: '100 killed including 2nd Army commanders and 20 FSB officers' in Ukrainian strike just days after Wagner base was destroyed​

Ukraine blows up another Russian military headquarters in Lysychansk

Serhiy Haidai, the governor of Luhansk province, said a Russian military headquarters in the occupied city of Lysychansk was blow up Wednesday, killing 100 of Putin's troops.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ukraine LIVE: Putin crisis as ANOTHER Russia HQ wrecked, Chechen base in ruins - FSB dead

VLADIMIR PUTIN has suffered another blow as he loses another Russian HQ, killing "100 soldiers, including 2nd Army commanders and 20 FSB officers" after a Ukrainian rocket strike.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Vergennes]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560287235597127681

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560269391962353664

 

[mulj]

This is next level of trolling from the highest officials.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560266844690612226

 

[The SC]

 

[Vergennes]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560253379095535620

 

[The SC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560239851760500737

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559931000427319301

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560137169754275841

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560220457634234368

 

[RoadAmerica]

And are you telling me Russia has not gained air superiority?

Yes!