Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624135298488606721

 

[aviator_fan]

The only country which is responsible for delivering Mirages and Exocets are France. It is not the responsibilitity of ”Europeans”.
In France, the only ones really responsible for delivering Mirages and Exocets are those involved in that decision.
The French stopped shipments of Mirages and Exocets, at the start of the war but resumed shipment after a few years. The reason why is unknown to me.
There might be a good reason - or not.
Unless you know the background, you cannot comment on the morality.

We do know the background to the Russian aggression on Ukraine, and here it is easy to comment on the morality of shipping weapons to Russia.

France is very much part of Europe. The whole thing started with saying that Iran is supplying a warring party. I highlighted an example where a member of the EU did the same and there was no pressure on them from rest of EU not to.

That is all. The discussion is not about the entire continent of Europe supplied or if Nordics supplied.

And more than one country was involved in supplying Saudi Arabia overt and covert assistance in its war against Yemen. There is no basis to say that Saudi Arabia’s war is more just on Yemen so it involves Western support. They also were interested in power projection and expanded the scope of conflict and by all indications are the aggressive party

The bigger point is, we should stop (regardless of Russian supporters or anti Russian) taking a morale high ground argument. As somebody has said here on this forum that history is written from the victor’s perspective. A moral argument holds for Russia today (i.e. they are the aggression) and puts Europe in a superior light in this conflict.

But morality is not a point in time concept, it has to be reflected at least in 50+ years or more of history. Thats where it doesn’t carry over

 

[Hack-Hook]

This excuse doesn't matter, because it doesn't change anything.

it means you have no proof and only make baseless claims

 

[That Guy]

it means you have no proof and only make baseless claims

No, it means that your excuse literally doesn't matter, because we all know the truth.

You can pretend otherwise, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Your excuses won't work with me.

 

[Corruptistan]

I lost track of what is going on in Ukraine in the past few weeks. Last thing I saw earlier today was that Ukrainian forces were being surrounded in Bakhmut and that Russians were preparing a large-scale offensive in Donbas and other regions.

Even with the massive NATO donations and weapons deliveries, familiarity with the land, supposedly greater civilian support for the Ukrainian army, you are hard-pressed to defeat/win a war against an adversary that is improving and learning (Russia) from its mistakes as well as heavily armed. Not to mention maybe the most important thing in the current arena of battle (massive direct troop engagements), numerical superiority and no respect/tactics to limit casualties from your side (Russia). A favorite tactic of post-1917 Russia that has proven successful in many arenas from WW1 and WW2 to nowadays in parts of Donbas.

Now if those countries (NATO) that are flooding Ukraine with weapons to help Ukraine, would send troops then the Russians would be royally screwed but that would most likely start the "real" war between NATO and Russia and it would not be a pretty sight for all of us. So here we are.

Who will blink first?

 

[blackjack101]

How Many Tanks Have Been Lost in Ukraine

Back in April 2022., Russia claimed to have destroyed 2 037 Ukrainian tanks. In May 2022., Ukraine claimed to have destroyed 30% of Russia’s modern tanks. Russia had some 3 000 T-80s and 400 …

historyandwar.org

Losses of Ukraine
So, according to an unnamed source for January 14, Ukraine's losses with the total number of armed forces involved in the conflict, 734 thousand soldiers and officers, plus 100 thousand reservists, were estimated as follows:

302 aircraft,

212 helicopters,

2750 UAV,

6320 tanks and other armored vehicles,

7360 artillery systems,

497 SAM.

The Mossad, according to a Turkish source, estimated our losses in mid-January as follows... The conflict involved 418,<> soldiers and the Wagner PMC, the number of which the source did not specify.

Losses as of mid-January since the beginning of the conflict were:

23 aircraft,

56 helicopters,

200 UAV,

889 tanks and armored vehicles,

427 artillery systems,

12 SAM,

18,480 dead, 44,500 wounded, 323 in captivity.

But of course, these reports make more sense if we look at maps, see the size of units Deployment map | MilitaryLand.net

https://twitter.com/x/status/1623826157224222722

https://twitter.com/x/status/1623891042314469377

https://twitter.com/x/status/1623893376994054145

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624023609135009792

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624052918415421442

 

[blackjack101]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624053768156327943

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624055434456842240

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624061700654739458

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624132765426847749

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624140669919830016

 

[blackjack101]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624111351428677644

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624111210403713024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624110906970972161

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624110820194979844

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624099068816371716

 

[Hack-Hook]

I said Iranians.

And here is the chance for Iran to not support the annexation of Crimea...

Iran has chance after chance to oppose Russia. Yet sells weapons to Russia for use against Ukraine, while Russia and Ukraine were at war.

And whoever says Iran sides with Russia is right too. Iran is on the side of Russia, any clear thinking person can see this. Yet, Iran wants it both ways, to support Russia, yet not seem to support Russia. Iran is two faced and a liar. This has been known for months and years.

To cheer for Russia is to cheer for Team Trump, Team Bannon, Team cia, Team Russia Mafia, Team Chabad, Team Tucker, Team Russia Republican. Russia Republicans are on the side of Putin, cheering privately for Putin to win and saying they don't support Russia. These are two faced liars same as Iranians that cheer for Putin or want a Russian led multipolar system after the war (meaning these Iranians are cheering for Putin to win). Two-faced liars.

as you see iran delegate even was not present at the time to vote , say that to the ones who abstained

Iran was backing Russia deal with "Chechen terrorists". So no I did not lie. Lying manipulative Iranians lied.

When it is about genocide, you have to chose a side. With it is a war, you can sit it out and not pick a side. Iranians are both cheering for Russian continued genocide in keeping Crimea and the rest of Ukraine. And trying to sit it out and not pick a side diplomatically and officially from Tehran. Both show that Iran and Iranians are on the side of genocide.

I am speaking of the moral obligation to morally support the genocided Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars and the two faced lying Iranians are speaking about how well Iran and Iranians are manipulating the global community to make it seem as though Iranians are not cheering for Europe to lose, NATO Europe to lose, EU to lose, Russia to win.

do you recall what happened when Iran sympathized with Russia on fighting terrorists ? do you even recall what they did in Moscow ?

 

[blackjack101]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624098365439979535

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624150418375819264

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624147312111980561

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624137564885028869

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624130857454735366

 

[Hack-Hook]

No, it means that your excuse literally doesn't matter, because we all know the truth.

You can pretend otherwise, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Your excuses won't work with me.

a truth only based on ignorance and lies , like WMD in Iraq , that you all knew as fact. but when we ask for evidence , you guys can't provide it and when we show flaws in your logic and discussion you say it does not matter.
yes it does not matter because you guys prefer stay in your LaLa land than facing the truth

 

[Ich]

Who will blink first?

Scholz

 

[Ali_Baba]

I lost track of what is going on in Ukraine in the past few weeks. Last thing I saw earlier today was that Ukrainian forces were being surrounded in Bakhmut and that Russians were preparing a large-scale offensive in Donbas and other regions.

Even with the massive NATO donations and weapons deliveries, familiarity with the land, supposedly greater civilian support for the Ukrainian army, you are hard-pressed to defeat/win a war against an adversary that is improving and learning (Russia) from its mistakes as well as heavily armed. Not to mention maybe the most important thing in the current arena of battle (massive direct troop engagements), numerical superiority and no respect/tactics to limit casualties from your side (Russia). A favorite tactic of post-1917 Russia that has proven successful in many arenas from WW1 and WW2 to nowadays in parts of Donbas.

Now if those countries (NATO) that are flooding Ukraine with weapons to help Ukraine, would send troops then the Russians would be royally screwed but that would most likely start the "real" war between NATO and Russia and it would not be a pretty sight for all of us. So here we are.

Who will blink first?

Rubbish - Rubbish - Rubbish ….what can Russia do to Nato that it is already failing to do to Ukraine?????

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

France is very much part of Europe. The whole thing started with saying that Iran is supplying a warring party. I highlighted an example where a member of the EU did the same and there was no pressure on them from rest of EU not to.

Why did Pakistan ship weapons to Iraq at the same time?
After all, Pakistan are humans like the French, so Pakistan is as responsible for those shipments as much as the Europeans. Or is there a problem with your argumentation?

The EU has traditionally not been involved in defense, but certainly they were criticized for it.

The Iranians made several terrorist attacks on France. so Iran certainly believes that shipping weapons into a war zone is a no no.

That is all. The discussion is not about the entire continent of Europe supplied or if Nordics supplied.

And more than one country was involved in supplying Saudi Arabia overt and covert assistance in its war against Yemen. There is no basis to say that Saudi Arabia’s war is more just on Yemen so it involves Western support. They also were interested in power projection and expanded the scope of conflict and by all indications are the aggressive party

The bigger point is, we should stop (regardless of Russian supporters or anti Russian) taking a morale high ground argument. As somebody has said here on this forum that history is written from the victor’s perspective. A moral argument holds for Russia today (i.e. they are the aggression) and puts Europe in a superior light in this conflict.

But morality is not a point in time concept, it has to be reflected at least in 50+ years or more of history. Thats where it doesn’t carry over

Without Irans shipments of weapons, there would not have been a war in Yemen. The war started way before SaudiArabia got involved.

a truth only based on ignorance and lies , like WMD in Iraq , that you all knew as fact. but when we ask for evidence , you guys can't provide it and when we show flaws in your logic and discussion you say it does not matter.
yes it does not matter because you guys prefer stay in your LaLa land than facing the truth

You have never to my knowledge produced any evidence to any claim.
When asked, You typically refer to one of your unproven claims earlier in the thread, and claim that this is evidence.

 

[Stranagor]

Smashed By Ukrainian Mines And Artillery, Russia’s Winter Offensive Just Ground To A Halt Outside Vuhledar

Smashed By Ukrainian Mines And Artillery, Russia’s Winter Offensive Just Ground To A Halt Outside Vuhledar

Outside Vuhledar, the Russian 72nd Brigade met the Ukrainian 72nd Brigade—and got beaten at least as badly as Russian marine brigades did in previous months. If this is the best Russia can do, its ballyhooed winter offensive could be costly ... and brief.

www.forbes.com