Russia trying hard to export Il-76MD-90A airlifter to China

[Beast]

Well, very first flight of very first prototype in 2013; usually, it's kinda required up to several years to fully test/sertify the things to accept in full service (may be chineese 'test' it during service by lifes of their men)

Really? I bet you be must in sorrrow not able to bag any deal from China? Maybe China can sell some Y-20 back to Russia next year.

Iran will get this baby so should China for now

As if IL-96 is better than Y-20?

 

[Gazprom]

Really? I bet you be must in sorrrow not able to bag any deal from China? Maybe China can sell some Y-20 back to Russia next year.


As if IL-96 is better than Y-20?

I would rate il-476 and il-96 better any day. But yes, Russia is weak on the after sales services though.

And I would not be surprised if China decides to give very big order for il-476 or su-35,though there would be demand of full TOT .

 

[BATTLE FIELD]

well its obvious that china will go with its home made y20
but IMO il-76 is a trusted and best airlifter after C-17

 

[Beast]

I would rate il-476 and il-96 better any day. But yes, Russia is weak on the after sales services though.

And I would not be surprised if China decides to give very big order for il-476 or su-35,though there would be demand of full TOT .

Haha... I bet with you, it will not happen. Days of better tech from russia is over. China technology has improved greatly and we are even happy to sell a few armed UAV to Russia since that is what you all are lacking

 

[BoQ77]

Really? I bet you be must in sorrrow not able to bag any deal from China? Maybe China can sell some Y-20 back to Russia next year.


As if IL-96 is better than Y-20?

Y20 designers themselves still dont assure anything

 

[Gazprom]

Haha... I bet with you, it will not happen. Days of better tech from russia is over. China technology has improved greatly and we are even happy to sell a few armed UAV to Russia since that is what you all are lacking

And I will bet on you that it could happen . The reason behind this is politics. By making massive purchases of ancillary weapons China could successfully pressurize Russia to do TOT for strategic weapon systems. India did this strategy for creating MARV warheads for Agni,Brahmos(based on Yakhonts), SSBN,SSN's etc.

Russia has better tech still. i.e. Thanks to Experience curve and skilled manpower.Though China is catching up fast with better machine tools and the futuristic 3D printing.

Again I would not be even be surprised if China-russia combines their bureaus . The manpower,R&D in Russia , Production-in Russia and China(more in China) ,After Sales services-primarily China. Though in exchange for full TOT and patent documents and ownership rights of related patents to China.

This will be the strategy of China in coming times.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

I would rate il-476 and il-96 better any day. But yes, Russia is weak on the after sales services though.

And I would not be surprised if China decides to give very big order for il-476 or su-35,though there would be demand of full TOT .

That is only in your opinion.

To begin with, unlike other users of Russian Warplanes around the region e.g. Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc, when we never heard of China returning either their Russian made jets or engines back to Moscow for either replacement or repairs. So the after sales service part to China is totally irrelevant.

If Russia ever land herself a big order from China, it is merely a friendly gesture. Once China successfully mass produced the Y-20 which is in fact superior in specification to the Russian IL-476 e.g. Y-20 have supercritical wings, a technology yet to be found in any Russian Airliners or Airlifters, China Y-20 is wide and spaceous enough to accomodate a T-99A tank which she can't with a IL-475.
( I have seen the close -up of the interior of the IL-475, in comparison to the Y-20 I would says the IL-476 is both practical and outdated especially with her avionics, etc.)

The SU-35 if Chinaever ordered them won't be seeing much of the frontline duty but most probably be assigned as predators for China own fighters in their ACMI program (The Golden Helmet).

China and Russia is only collaborating in a wide-body airliner. The Comac 919 when completed will be more advanced than any Russian Airliners.

IMO All these talk of TOT is confined to third world nations like India, Indonesia, etc. Example India has been trying to persuade the French to depart with their Rafale Technology without any success so far.

What technology exactly can Russia transfer to China at this point of time. Example: Russia refuse to sell China her SU-33 Naval Fighters, China took a peek at the Ukraine earlier model and came out with their J-15. Some trolls like to use the word copy or reverse engineered but if one would to examine both the plane carefully, there are not the same apart from the successful shape and design.

The foldable wing of the J-15 can never fit any SU-33. The folding mechanism looks neater on the J-15. Overally, the J-15 is superior to the pre-dated SU-33 which is still using analogue meters.

 

[Gazprom]

That is only in your opinion.

To begin with, unlike other users of Russian Warplanes around the region e.g. Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc, when we never heard of China returning either their Russian made jets or engines back to Moscow for either replacement or repairs. So the after sales service part to China is totally irrelevant.

If Russia ever land herself a big order from China, it is merely a friendly gesture. Once China successfully mass produced the Y-20 which is in fact superior in specification to the Russian IL-476 e.g. Y-20 have supercritical wings, a technology yet to be found in any Russian Airliners or Airlifters, China Y-20 is wide and spaceous enough to accomodate a T-99A tank which she can't with a IL-475.
( I have seen the close -up of the interior of the IL-475, in comparison to the Y-20 I would says the IL-476 is both practical and outdated especially with her avionics, etc.)

The SU-35 if Chinaever ordered them won't be seeing much of the frontline duty but most probably be assigned as predators for China own fighters in their ACMI program (The Golden Helmet).

China and Russia is only collaborating in a wide-body airliner. The Comac 919 when completed will be more advanced than any Russian Airliners.

IMO All these talk of TOT is confined to third world nations like India, Indonesia, etc. Example India has been trying to persuade the French to depart with their Rafale Technology without any success so far.

What technology exactly can Russia transfer to China at this point of time. Example: Russia refuse to sell China her SU-33 Naval Fighters, China took a peek at the Ukraine earlier model and came out with their J-15. Some trolls like to use the word copy or reverse engineered but if one would to examine both the plane carefully, there are not the same apart from the successful shape and design.

The foldable wing of the J-15 can never fit any SU-33. The folding mechanism looks neater on the J-15. Overally, the J-15 is superior to the pre-dated SU-33 which is still using analogue meters.

Words are cheap. Il-76 is operational for several nations. Unlike Y-20 .I wouldn't boast like that. Spare me that fanboyism. I am a realist type. China still has to develop its manpower and experience curve where aviation is concerned.

 

[BoQ77]

Will you put your life in the hands of experienced doctor or to be a patient first?

Words are cheap. Il-76 is operational for several nations. Unlike Y-20 .I wouldn't boast like that. Spare me that fanboyism. I am a realist type. China still has to develop its manpower and experience curve where aviation is concerned.

 

[Gazprom]

Will you put your life in the hands of experienced doctor or to be a patient first?

Obviously ,the doctor.

 

[FlyCheatter]

Well, the info is open( so I don't go for links - easy to find), "supercritical wing" - sollely developed in Russia/Ukraine, engines for Y-20 are just old Soviet D-30-KP2 (which in Ilyushin substituted with more modern PS-90A/A3), moreover, Il-76 to have supercritical Black wing (composite), glass cabin, etc...
So, sorta alil premature to say Y-20 in any way better; finally, it's just to come to service (who knows when);
So, with all respect to China/Chineese people you choose, no one forcing China to buy, just probably an offer from the Russian side..
Cheers

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Words are cheap. Il-76 is operational for several nations. Unlike Y-20 .I wouldn't boast like that. Spare me that fanboyism. I am a realist type. China still has to develop its manpower and experience curve where aviation is concerned.

I absolutely agree with you, word is cheap and somehow or rather, the Indian appear to master the art of cheap talk. They even invent a word for it called BS.

Yes. Like you says IL-76 has been operational for several nations and you must agreed that its technology is rather aged by comparison to the newer transporters e.g. Y-20.

Unlike many Indians, what we penned are factual unless you do not understand English.

This is what I wrote " Once China successfully mass produced the Y-20 which is in fact superior in SPECIFICATION to the Russian IL-476".

The specifications of the Y-20 are indeed SUPERIOR to the Russian IL-476.

Does the IL-476 have supercritical airfoil? The answer is "NO".

Can the IL-476 transport a T99A tank? The answer is again "NO".

Why bother to discuss about the other important areas of technology when it has already failed China's requirements? Maybe Russia should promote it to India since the C-17 is no longer in production.

Now tell me how realistic are you?

Prove to me you some of you Indians are not fanboyish when you nicknamed your LCA in those earlier years as RAPTOR KILLER or your AGNI-III as CHINA KILLER or the biscuit tin size MAR module which you claimed as the most advanced in Asia which was hurled into space by NOT YOUR OWN INDIGENUOUS GSLV Rocket ( Which can only be launched in perfect weather condition) but by an EUROPEAN ARIANE rocket.

BTW I heard the biscuit tin visitor which India send to MAR has been dead for quite some time- battery dead.

Well, the info is open( so I don't go for links - easy to find), "supercritical wing" - sollely developed in Russia/Ukraine, engines for Y-20 are just old Soviet D-30-KP2 (which in Ilyushin substituted with more modern PS-90A/A3), moreover, Il-76 to have supercritical Black wing (composite), glass cabin, etc...
So, sorta alil premature to say Y-20 in any way better; finally, it's just to come to service (who knows when);
So, with all respect to China/Chineese people you choose, no one forcing China to buy, just probably an offer from the Russian side..
Cheers

I suggest you go and do more research into the subject on what supercritical wings are or its advantages first before you enter into a debate with others. Does the IL-76 or the IL-476 have supercritical wings? According to you, the answer is YES but the truth is "NO". The earlier supercritical wing designed by Russia on the AN-124 are crude and ineffective at 12.5%. I personally think Russia is lacking in the critical area of technology e.g. composite,etc. I observed Russia uses a lot of aluminium and titanium alloy in their construction e.g. T-50 FGFA.

You are right nobody can forced China to buy military stuff, they don't need. It is just the persistent Russian salesmen and medias who have keep insisting Chinahas place orders for their product e.g. SU-35 from 2010. If China needs these planes for their defense, they will not be ordering 24 or less but by hundreds.

Russia has invited China to join their 5G fighter program for the longest time without success. Why? Because China's own FGFA program is far more advanced than Russia. China's J-20 FGFA may be entering limited production and services by next year while Russia is still working to meet their own deadline.

China can certainly worked with Russia in many other areas e.g. heavy lift helicopters or wide body airliners.

 

[FlyCheatter]

LOL, ok, you know better...
just alil addition though: talking about things like specs is premature before all comprehensive testduites are applied / plane cerification done (very offten expectations are reduced in form of those specs and plane's being, sometimes quite drasrically, reconfigured); then, there always plethora of characteristics of such planes on the mind, i.e, say, having "better" in some way body profile then Il-76, doesn't mean it's all the way better or smt., it's just the initial desicion of Soviet Engineers to make the Il's body like that for the sake of landing capabilities (different/more airdromes types), and so on and do forth ..
PS. but hei, ok, some info about Il's wings're just somewhat fase (Black wings to come to Yakovlev's MS-21); me just remembered the initial plans ... (yet, another example how reallity comes to be after all and do not fit the initial "specifications")

 

[BoQ77]

I absolutely agree with you, word is cheap and somehow or rather, the Indian appear to master the art of cheap talk. They even invent a word for it called BS.

Yes. Like you says IL-76 has been operational for several nations and you must agreed that its technology is rather aged by comparison to the newer transporters e.g. Y-20.

Unlike many Indians, what we penned are factual unless you do not understand English.

This is what I wrote " Once China successfully mass produced the Y-20 which is in fact superior in SPECIFICATION to the Russian IL-476".

The specifications of the Y-20 are indeed SUPERIOR to the Russian IL-476.

Does the IL-476 have supercritical airfoil? The answer is "NO".

Can the IL-476 transport a T99A tank? The answer is again "NO".

Why bother to discuss about the other important areas of technology when it has already failed China's requirements? Maybe Russia should promote it to India since the C-17 is no longer in production.

Now tell me how realistic are you?

Prove to me you some of you Indians are not fanboyish when you nicknamed your LCA in those earlier years as RAPTOR KILLER or your AGNI-III as CHINA KILLER or the biscuit tin size MAR module which you claimed as the most advanced in Asia which was hurled into space by NOT YOUR OWN INDIGENUOUS GSLV Rocket ( Which can only be launched in perfect weather condition) but by an EUROPEAN ARIANE rocket.

BTW I heard the biscuit tin visitor which India send to MAR has been dead for quite some time- battery dead.



I suggest you go and do more research into the subject on what supercritical wings are or its advantages first before you enter into a debate with others. Does the IL-76 or the IL-476 have supercritical wings? According to you, the answer is YES but the truth is "NO". The earlier supercritical wing designed by Russia on the AN-124 are crude and ineffective at 12.5%. I personally think Russia is lacking in the critical area of technology e.g. composite,etc. I observed Russia uses a lot of aluminium and titanium alloy in their construction e.g. T-50 FGFA.

You are right nobody can forced China to buy military stuff, they don't need. It is just the persistent Russian salesmen and medias who have keep insisting Chinahas place orders for their product e.g. SU-35 from 2010. If China needs these planes for their defense, they will not be ordering 24 or less but by hundreds.

Russia has invited China to join their 5G fighter program for the longest time without success. Why? Because China's own FGFA program is far more advanced than Russia. China's J-20 FGFA may be entering limited production and services by next year while Russia is still working to meet their own deadline.

China can certainly worked with Russia in many other areas e.g. heavy lift helicopters or wide body airliners.

Everything work perfectly ........................................................................... on paper !!!
Let them do all tests first.

 

[Gazprom]

I absolutely agree with you, word is cheap and somehow or rather, the Indian appear to master the art of cheap talk. They even invent a word for it called BS.

Yes. Like you says IL-76 has been operational for several nations and you must agreed that its technology is rather aged by comparison to the newer transporters e.g. Y-20.

Unlike many Indians, what we penned are factual unless you do not understand English.

This is what I wrote " Once China successfully mass produced the Y-20 which is in fact superior in SPECIFICATION to the Russian IL-476".

The specifications of the Y-20 are indeed SUPERIOR to the Russian IL-476.

Does the IL-476 have supercritical airfoil? The answer is "NO".

Can the IL-476 transport a T99A tank? The answer is again "NO".

Why bother to discuss about the other important areas of technology when it has already failed China's requirements? Maybe Russia should promote it to India since the C-17 is no longer in production.

Now tell me how realistic are you?

Prove to me you some of you Indians are not fanboyish when you nicknamed your LCA in those earlier years as RAPTOR KILLER or your AGNI-III as CHINA KILLER or the biscuit tin size MAR module which you claimed as the most advanced in Asia which was hurled into space by NOT YOUR OWN INDIGENUOUS GSLV Rocket ( Which can only be launched in perfect weather condition) but by an EUROPEAN ARIANE rocket.

BTW I heard the biscuit tin visitor which India send to MAR has been dead for quite some time- battery dead.



I suggest you go and do more research into the subject on what supercritical wings are or its advantages first before you enter into a debate with others. Does the IL-76 or the IL-476 have supercritical wings? According to you, the answer is YES but the truth is "NO". The earlier supercritical wing designed by Russia on the AN-124 are crude and ineffective at 12.5%. I personally think Russia is lacking in the critical area of technology e.g. composite,etc. I observed Russia uses a lot of aluminium and titanium alloy in their construction e.g. T-50 FGFA.

You are right nobody can forced China to buy military stuff, they don't need. It is just the persistent Russian salesmen and medias who have keep insisting Chinahas place orders for their product e.g. SU-35 from 2010. If China needs these planes for their defense, they will not be ordering 24 or less but by hundreds.

Russia has invited China to join their 5G fighter program for the longest time without success. Why? Because China's own FGFA program is far more advanced than Russia. China's J-20 FGFA may be entering limited production and services by next year while Russia is still working to meet their own deadline.

China can certainly worked with Russia in many other areas e.g. heavy lift helicopters or wide body airliners.

All talk . Talk is cheap. Il-76 is widely used . Y-20 is still in testing nuff said.Spare the fanboyism rant to me.