What's new

Russia joins combat in Syria

Bullshit. Problem started because some sheek in Saudia thought, "hey, why aren't there any infidel-Shia's dying in the neighborhood nowadays?".... so basically it was the bloodthirsty Wahabis that started all this crap with the usual suspects and some unusual ones such as Israel (new lovers in arms)


Problem was always there even during the time of Saddam Hussain . Syria even now do host Iraqi baathists aka ISIS. ISIS have carryed out suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia and Baghdad.

Problem is this that the Baathist leadership of Syria and Iraq are fighting on all the fronts.
 
. .
And agreeing to each and every mainstream idea doesn't make you an expert. If I write just a few sentences, doesn't mean there is lack of knowledge on my part on a subject matter, rather, I may not have the time to educate everyone on a daily basis.

by adding a Saudi and Wahabi everywhere doesnt always make you right kind makes you sound crazy!
 
.
by adding a Saudi and Wahabi everywhere doesnt always make you right kind makes you sound crazy!

Well a simple google search will reveal that nearly all of the major "opposition" groups fighting Bashar Al Assad are "salafis"...
 
.
Baathists joined the ISIS not because they liked the party atmosphere of ISIS, rather because they were systematically dismantled by the Yanks at the behest of Arabs (here the Saudis and Kuwaitis)........ just like many other things "Made in Saudia"....

Furthermore, it were about wrongful distribution of resources, then ask that question to stateless bedouins of Kuwait and locals of Bahrain... who's fighting for their rights - or bombing the opressors on their behalf?...... therefore, all this SELECTIVE 'righteous' attitude carries no weight, whatsoever.......



Problem was always there even during the time of Saddam Hussain . Syria even now do host Iraqi baathists aka ISIS. ISIS have carryed out suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia and Baghdad.

Problem is this that the Baathist leadership of Syria and Iraq are fighting on all the fronts.
 
.
Well a simple google search will reveal that nearly all of the major "opposition" groups fighting Bashar Al Assad are "salafis"...
If I were to believe everything google search showed me....Believe me you, I wouldnt be called sane!

Google search is based on algorithm and you get what you type!

2ndly, today's world lives off making Saudi the boogey man and Muslims the sheep....I rather the finger pointing stopped! It has reached a new disturbing level! Where Non Muslims dont point as often as Muslims do! New stage of shamelessness?

And agreeing to each and every mainstream idea doesn't make you an expert.
I am not agreeing to everything and everyone...Were I....Mind you today's media's hot topic is Saudi/ Arabs/ Muslims....bash them at its best....logically speaking YOU are what you are trying to projecting me as coz you are the one going Saudi, Wahabi and what not!
 
.
Baathists joined the ISIS not because they liked the party atmosphere of ISIS, rather because they were systematically dismantled by the Yanks at the behest of Arabs (here the Saudis and Kuwaitis)........ just like many other things "Made in Saudia"....

Furthermore, it were about wrongful distribution of resources, then ask that question to stateless bedouins of Kuwait and locals of Bahrain... who's fighting for their rights - or bombing the opressors on their behalf?...... therefore, all this SELECTIVE 'righteous' attitude carries no weight, whatsoever.......


Iraqi Baathist did carried out enough bombing in the name of AL Qaida but now have seperated themselves and working under the banner of ISIS.

Attack on the Shia holiest shrine was carried out in the name of Al Qaida but in reality it was the work of Iraqi Baathists.

FSA has seperated themselves from Syrian Baath party because of the active support given by Syria Baath Party to Iraqi Baathists.

U.S. and Russia unlikely to share intelligence

The U.S. and Russia need to communicate more about airstrikes in Syria, but are unlikely to share intelligence with each other, said Lt. Gen. Robert Otto, the Air Force’s Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance.

“It’s 'Trust, but verify,'” he said. “I’d be hard pressed to think of what intelligence I would want to share with the Russians at this point.”

Speaking to reporters at an Oct. 1 breakfast hosted by the Defense Writers Group, Otto said the U.S. is still trying to assess all of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s goals in getting involved in Syria.

Otto said a continued lack of communication by the Russians could worsen the situation in Syria, and warned that encounters could get out of hand if Russian and U.S. fighters cross paths without clear intentions.

“His stated intentions and what I saw in air strikes yesterday are not congruent,” Otto said. “You see where those strikes occurred, those were not anti-ISIS strikes. There’s an incongruence between what President Putin is saying and what his forces are doing.”

“Any time that you have an aircraft pointed at you that has air-to-air missiles, you’re concerned about what their intent is,” he said. “It’s almost like if you’ve ever been driving down the road and then you see somebody in your lane coming the opposite direction. That immediately gets your attention. Are they going to move out of the lane? What’s going to happen?”

Having armed Russian jets flying near Air Force craft would also hinder strikes against the Islamic State group, Otto said, as it would be difficult for pilots to focus on dropping bombs with a potentially hostile aircraft so close by.

“If you want to avoid those kinds of missteps, isn’t it handy to know ahead of time ‘Okay we’re going to be operating up in this area tomorrow.’ That’d be helpful to know,” he said.

Otto chided the Russians for not telling the U.S. earlier about their airstrikes.

“Our forces got, I think, one hours’ notice. ‘Hey we’re going to conduct strikes, we’d like you to exit Syria.’ Well that’s not de-confliction and that’s not something we’re going to do,” he said.

The general said the U.S. and Russia need to be very clear about what areas of Syria their planes are operating in so both nations may avoid any close-calls.

“I think we see that as a very advisable thing to do from a military point of view,” he said, adding he suspects Russian pilots would agree.

But while the U.S. and Russian need to communicate what areas they will be conducting airstrikes in, Otto said it’s unlikely the two nations will share any additional information.

“It’s easy to exchange factual data where you’re going to operate,” he said. “I would not envision a relationship where I would share some of my intelligence with them. I just don’t envision it based on where our interests are and based on where their demonstrated intent, based on where their airstrikes are.”

Noting that he was speaking personally and not as a military commander, Otto said “I have a low level of trust in the Russians.”
 
.
So now the favorite pdf game is cheering as Muslims are killed, as long as they are the other sort.
Sadly it seems the think tank is leading the cheering.
A bit rich for posters to bag the west for slandering Muslims while they cheer Russians for killing them
 
.
So now the favorite pdf game is cheering as Muslims are killed, as long as they are the other sort.
Sadly it seems the think tank is leading the cheering.
A bit rich for posters to bag the west for slandering Muslims while they cheer Russians for killing them

Some of us are cheering because after 4 years we want the crisis in Syria to end. We want stability to come to Syria, Iraq, and Yemen, so instead of kids growing up to strap bombs on their chests and blow up mosques, they can instead study to be scientists and doctors.
 
.
So now the favorite pdf game is cheering as Muslims are killed, as long as they are the other sort.
Sadly it seems the think tank is leading the cheering.
A bit rich for posters to bag the west for slandering Muslims while they cheer Russians for killing them

Russia kills terrorists. America kills civilians.
Big difference.
 
.
Actually I'd be cheering a lot more if Aussies embedded with the CIA training ISIS @ Saudi bidding were being neutralized at Russian expense. It's always nice to see two equally matched foes rough it out.

So now the favorite pdf game is cheering as Muslims are killed, as long as they are the other sort.
Sadly it seems the think tank is leading the cheering.
A bit rich for posters to bag the west for slandering Muslims while they cheer Russians for killing them
 
.
So now the favorite pdf game is cheering as Muslims are killed, as long as they are the other sort.

those "muslims" who fight against the syrian government on behalf of nato, i reject their claim as muslims.

your concern for muslims is absent when they support the syrian government, and it is these who form the civilians killed in this fifth year of this regime-change war.
 
.
Iraqi Baathist did carried out enough bombing in the name of AL Qaida but now have seperated themselves and working under the banner of ISIS.

Attack on the Shia holiest shrine was carried out in the name of Al Qaida but in reality it was the work of Iraqi Baathists.

FSA has seperated themselves from Syrian Baath party because of the active support given by Syria Baath Party to Iraqi Baathists.

U.S. and Russia unlikely to share intelligence

The U.S. and Russia need to communicate more about airstrikes in Syria, but are unlikely to share intelligence with each other, said Lt. Gen. Robert Otto, the Air Force’s Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance.

“It’s 'Trust, but verify,'” he said. “I’d be hard pressed to think of what intelligence I would want to share with the Russians at this point.”

Speaking to reporters at an Oct. 1 breakfast hosted by the Defense Writers Group, Otto said the U.S. is still trying to assess all of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s goals in getting involved in Syria.

Otto said a continued lack of communication by the Russians could worsen the situation in Syria, and warned that encounters could get out of hand if Russian and U.S. fighters cross paths without clear intentions.

“His stated intentions and what I saw in air strikes yesterday are not congruent,” Otto said. “You see where those strikes occurred, those were not anti-ISIS strikes. There’s an incongruence between what President Putin is saying and what his forces are doing.”

“Any time that you have an aircraft pointed at you that has air-to-air missiles, you’re concerned about what their intent is,” he said. “It’s almost like if you’ve ever been driving down the road and then you see somebody in your lane coming the opposite direction. That immediately gets your attention. Are they going to move out of the lane? What’s going to happen?”

Having armed Russian jets flying near Air Force craft would also hinder strikes against the Islamic State group, Otto said, as it would be difficult for pilots to focus on dropping bombs with a potentially hostile aircraft so close by.

“If you want to avoid those kinds of missteps, isn’t it handy to know ahead of time ‘Okay we’re going to be operating up in this area tomorrow.’ That’d be helpful to know,” he said.

Otto chided the Russians for not telling the U.S. earlier about their airstrikes.

“Our forces got, I think, one hours’ notice. ‘Hey we’re going to conduct strikes, we’d like you to exit Syria.’ Well that’s not de-confliction and that’s not something we’re going to do,” he said.

The general said the U.S. and Russia need to be very clear about what areas of Syria their planes are operating in so both nations may avoid any close-calls.

“I think we see that as a very advisable thing to do from a military point of view,” he said, adding he suspects Russian pilots would agree.

But while the U.S. and Russian need to communicate what areas they will be conducting airstrikes in, Otto said it’s unlikely the two nations will share any additional information.

“It’s easy to exchange factual data where you’re going to operate,” he said. “I would not envision a relationship where I would share some of my intelligence with them. I just don’t envision it based on where our interests are and based on where their demonstrated intent, based on where their airstrikes are.”

Noting that he was speaking personally and not as a military commander, Otto said “I have a low level of trust in the Russians.”

usa really dont want to share the intelligent report with russia
 
.
usa really dont want to share the intelligent report with russia

United States do care about the Syrian opposition and sharing intelligence means giving the info to Russians about the location, numbers , equipment etc which the Russians will hand over to Syrian Baathists as well as Iranians which would be the biggest blow.

Officials: Pentagon weighs protections for US-trained rebels

WASHINGTON — Russia's launch of airstrikes in Syria is prompting discussions within the Pentagon about whether the U.S. should use military force to protect U.S.-trained and equipped Syrian rebels if they come under fire by the Russians.

U.S. officials said Thursday that senior military leaders and defense officials are working through the thorny legal and foreign policy issues and are weighing the risks of using force in response to a Russian attack.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter declined to discuss the problem when asked about it this week. But U.S. officials acknowledged that this is one of the questions being asked as they debate the broader dilemma of how the administration should respond to what White House press secretary Josh Earnest described as Russia's "indiscriminate military operations against the Syrian opposition."

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss ongoing deliberations publicly.

Tensions between the U.S. and Russia are escalating over Russian airstrikes that apparently are serving to strengthen Syrian President Bashar Assad by targeting rebels — perhaps including some aligned with the U.S. — rather than hitting Islamic State fighters it promised to attack.

Turkey's Foreign Ministry says Ankara and its allies in the U.S.-led coalition are calling on Russia to immediately cease attacks on the Syrian opposition and to focus on fighting Islamic State militants.

Meanwhile, a joint statement by the United States, France, Germany, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Britain expressed concern over Russia's military actions, saying they will "only fuel more extremism and radicalization." The text of the statement was released by the Turkish Foreign Ministry on Friday, and confirmed by the French Foreign Ministry.

The Pentagon on Thursday had its first conversation with Russian officials in an effort to avoid any unintended U.S.-Russian confrontations as the airstrikes continue in the skies over Syria. During the video call, Elissa Slotkin, who represented the U.S. side, expressed America's concerns that Russia is targeting areas where there are few if any Islamic State forces operating. Slotkin is the acting assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs.

A key concern is the prospect of the U.S. and Russia getting drawn into a shooting war in the event that Russian warplanes hit moderate Syrian rebels who have been trained and equipped by the U.S. military.

At U.N. headquarters in New York, Secretary of State John Kerry said: "What is important is Russia has to not be engaged in any activities against anybody but ISIL. That's clear. We have made that very clear."

"We are not yet where we need to be to guarantee the safety and security" of those carrying out the airstrikes, he said.

In an interview late Thursday on CBS's "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert," Kerry described the military consultations as "a way of making sure that planes aren't going to be shooting at each other and making things worse."

"What is happening is a catastrophe, a human catastrophe really unparalleled in modern times," Kerry said of the Syrian crisis, adding that Russia should help the U.S. "persuade Assad to be the saver of his country, not the killer of his country."

U.S. officials made it clear earlier this year that rebels trained by the U.S. would receive air support in the event they are attacked by either IS or Syrian government troops. Currently, only about 80 U.S.-trained Syrian rebels are back in Syria fighting with their units.

The U.S. policy is very specific. It doesn't address a potential attack by Russian planes and does not include Syrian rebels who have not been through the U.S. military training, even though they may be aligned with the U.S. or fighting Islamic State militants.

So far, the Russian airstrikes have been in western Syria. The Syrians trained and equipped by the U.S. have primarily been operating in the north.

U.S. officials said the issue is one of many being hashed out by top leaders within the department and the military's Joint Staff. One official said they are weighing the potential fallout.

At worst, if Russia bombs rebels trained by the U.S. and American fighter jets intercede to protect the Syrians, the exchange could trigger an all-out confrontation with Russia — a potential disaster the administration would like to avoid.

Fueling the concerns is the fact that Russia has aircraft in Syria with air-to-air combat capacity, even though IS has no air force and the only aircraft in the skies belong to U.S.-led coalition or the Syrian government.

Pentagon press secretary Peter Cook would not provide details of the talks with Russia. But much of the discussion involved proposals for avoiding conflict between U.S. and Russian aircraft flying over Syria.

Kerry said he foresees further consultations with the Russians about air operations. And Cook said the U.S. side proposed using specific international radio frequencies for distress calls by military pilots flying in Syrian airspace, but he was not more specific about that or other proposals.

Russia's defense ministry said that over the past 24 hours it had damaged or destroyed 12 targets in Syria belonging to the IS fighters, including a command center and ammunition depots. A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, Col. Steve Warren, said he had no indication that the Russians had hit Islamic State targets.

"While there is always danger of conflict, of inadvertent contact" between coalition and Russian warplanes, "we are continuing with our operations," Warren told reporters at the Pentagon.

___

Associated Press writers Josh Lederman and Matthew Lee contributed to this report.
 
.
U.S., allies short on options as Russia, Iran flex muscle in Syria| Reuters

BEIRUT (Reuters)- - Across the Middle East, America’s traditional allies are watching with disbelief as Russia and Iran mount a show of force in Syria, and they are wondering how it will end.

The U.S.-led coalition, created to combat the jihadi threat from Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, has been wrong footed by the Russian jets pounding the rebels fighting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, and by an influx of Iranian forces.

The question on everyone’s mind is: will the United States and its European and regional Sunni allies intervene to stop President Vladimir Putin from reversing the gains made by mainstream Syrian rebels after more than four years of war?

Few are holding their breath.

Many say, often with vehemence, that the current drama is the consequence of ongoing Western inaction and U.S. retreat at critical moments in an ever more uncontrollable conflict, whose regional dimensions are fast becoming global.

Nobody in the Middle East is counting on U.S. President Barack Obama. The gloomy prediction of most is that a war that has killed at least a quarter of a million people and displaced half the Syrian population is about to get much, much worse.

The conflict has taken a deadly trajectory throughout. It began as a popular uprising against Assad, part of the 'Arab Spring', then became a sectarian war with regional patrons such as Iran and Saudi Arabia backing their local proxies.

Military interventions by Russia and Iran have pushed the war to the brink of a full-blown international conflict.

Faisal Al Yafai, chief commentator at the UAE-based newspaper, The National, recalled the words of David Petraeus, the U.S. general who led the “surge” of American military reinforcements into Iraq in 2007-08 - "Tell me how this ends".

After the Russian "surge" into Syria, he said, "America and its allies now look like the only group without a plan".

He believes the emerging military alliance between Russia and Assad’s other main backers – Iran and Lebanon’s Hezbollah – does have an idea of "how this ends". The same is true of Islamic State, he said.

The end for the Assad family, he argues, is its survival.

For Islamic State, it is to carve out and consolidate the caliphate it declared in large swathes of Syria and Iraq last year. But for Russia and Iran, it is "nothing less than the replacement of the U.S.-Israel axis with one of their own".

A NEW AXIS

With the Kremlin's creation in Baghdad of a center to share intelligence among Syria, Iraq, Iran and Russia, a Moscow-backed network now runs from Tehran, through Baghdad and Damascus, and via Hezbollah into Lebanon.

The new axis is taking shape as the United States has withdrawn ground troops from Iraq and is winding down its military presence in Afghanistan. While it continues to police Gulf waterways from a base in Bahrain and maintains an airforce presence in Qatar and Turkey, Washington appears determined to avoid deeper military entanglements in the Middle East.

Analysts and diplomats say the turning point in Syria came two years ago when Obama and his European allies shied away from responding to the Assad army's alleged nerve gas attacks on civilians in the rebel enclaves east of Damascus – even though the U.S. president had repeatedly declared that a "red line".

"It was the point when the Assad regime and mainly the Iranians realized that the Americans are not serious, that they really didn’t care enough," Yafai said.

For that reason, he doubts whether Russian intervention will lead to a proxy war in the Middle East with Russia. "You have to ask that question in a different way," he said.

"What would it take to make the Americans intervene? Would it take children and women being slaughtered? Well that happened. Will it take millions of people on the move? That happened. Will it take hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered? Well that happened," Yafai told Reuters.

"America wasn’t willing at any point to intervene so why now would it suddenly intervene? It is a free field for Putin and the Russians."

Added to U.S. reluctance, the regional scene couldn't have been more favorable for Iran and Moscow to step in.

Saudi Arabia and its Gulf Sunni allies, the main backers of anti-Assad rebels, are immersed in a war in Yemen against Iranian-supported Houthi rebels, while Turkey is busy with its own Kurdish insurgency.

Turkey and its Gulf allies will most likely respond to the Russian and Iranian build-up by increasing military support for mainstream opposition forces in Syria, rather than risk direct intervention.

OVER ITS HEAD?

But some analysts say Russia may be getting in over its head, entering a treacherous quagmire in Syria before it has got a grip on the conflict it started in Ukraine, at a time when Western sanctions and falling oil prices have hurt its economy.

"This is sheer opportunism," said a veteran former U.N. official with long experience as an envoy in the region. "They’ve looked at how (bad) we look and seen an opportunity.

"It’s a real gamble, the first time they've sent an expeditionary force away from their 'near abroad' since (the 1979 Soviet invasion of) Afghanistan – and even that was on their borders," said the former envoy, who declined to be quoted by name. "Putin is trying to regain the loss of Russian clout in the Middle East."

Even Yafai says the idea that Russia can supplant the United States in the region is fanciful.

"They don’t have the financial power," he said. "They don’t need to be that involved because the Americans are leaving so even a small presence will be enough to have a significant impact."

OPEN-ENDED WAR

The Assad government, Syria watchers say, has been lucky with its enemies as well as its allies.

What may alter this calculus, some analysts say, is if Russia and Iran move to recapture areas of north-western Syria seized by insurgents earlier this year.

It is in that area that Russian jets have targeted not IS but other Islamist rebels who are fighting against both Assad and IS with support from Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and in some cases the United States.

As Reuters reported this week, Iranian troops and their Hezbollah allies plan to use Russian air cover to launch a ground offensive in Idlib and Hama provinces, where the IS presence is minimal.

That risks turning all Sunni factions against Russia, while Putin is already nervous about the presence of large numbers of Chechens on the ground in Syria and about IS ambitions to build up its presence in the northern Caucasus.

Sarkis Naoum, a leading Lebanese commentator on Syria, said that if Russia decided to launch a wide-scale operation in the north, it would lead to a "war on an international scale".

If on the other hand, Iran confined its military role to shoring up and fortifying an Assad-held north-western coastal enclave and the capital, Damascus, and avoided mainstream rebel-held territory close to the Jordanian and Turkish borders, the conflict would probably not escalate much more widely.

“This step (attacking rebels in the north) opens the door to an open-ended war in the region and a declared (Sunni-Shi'ite) sectarian war which could in the long term transform to a second Afghanistan for the Russians, and they won’t be able to win it," Naoum said.

Moscow's critics as well as non-IS rebels say the Russian and Iranian intervention will draw more Sunni foreign fighters and jihadis into Syria.

"What will Putin do then?" asked Naoum. "If this battle takes place then Putin would drag himself and the world into a predicament whose beginning is known but whose end is not."

(editedM by Janet McBride)
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom