Russia is ready to develop jointly with Turkey a long-range air defense ...

[cabatli_53]

Turkiye has a bad experience with Russian Mi-17 Maintenance, overall program. Helicopters could't fly some years cause of some problems occured with Russian company.

 

[cabatli_53]

If it was a pure "Hazir alim" project which one do you (and others) prefer more:

Patriot (with PAC3 and GEM missiles)
S300 PMU2
HQ9
EuroSAM

You know bro, My heart always goes to "technological advancement" style programs so Even If China is seen as poor capable when they are compared with other contenders in T-LORAMIDS, I would prefer choosing Chinese HQ-9 with full technology transfer. It isn't important Chinese technology is top-edge or not because Turkey is not new at SAM sector. I mean We are developing our MANPAD, Low and mediam altitude SAM missiles and Just imagine What Turkish industry can achieve with Long range missile technology to be acquired from x country. We just need expertise and some subsystem collaboration. Rest is Turkish engineers' profession.


but, In current T-LORAMIDS tender, Most probably, Turkey will select PAC-3 with a big offset. Aster-30 isn't matured yet. S-300 is old so Turkish army officials most probably think the stupidy of pouring money on an absolete sytem While proceeding to be an effective power in own region. Selection of HQ-9 is difficult due to USA pressures. They play NATO card to eliminate other 2 contenders from T-LORAMIDS.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

You know bro, My heart always goes to "technological advancement" style programs so Even If China is seen as poor capable when they are compared with other contenders in T-LORAMIDS, I would prefer choosing Chinese HQ-9 with full technology transfer. It isn't important Chinese technology is top-edge or not because Turkey is not new at SAM sector. I mean We are developing our MANPAD, Low and mediam altitude SAM missiles and Just imagine What Turkish industry can achieve with Long range missile technology to be acquired from x country. We just need expertise and some subsystem collaboration. Rest is Turkish engineers' profession.

A word of wisdom, I call it.

but, In current T-LORAMIDS tender, Most probably, Turkey will select PAC-3 with a big offset. Aster-30 isn't matured yet. S-300 is old so Turkish army officials most probably think the stupidy of pouring money on an absolete sytem While proceeding to be an effective power in own region. Selection of HQ-9 is difficult due to USA pressures. They play NATO card to eliminate other 2 contenders from T-LORAMIDS.

I agree. PAC3 system with current developments has a huge edge to others. During Operation Iraqi Freedom Upgraded PAC3 system with PAC-3, GEM, and GEM+ missiles both had a very high success rate intercepting Al-Samoud 2 and Ababil-100 tactical ballistic missiles.

 

[cabatli_53]

BTW, I think Chinese officials know their chances at T-LORAMIDS are quite low so offering impressive points regarding ToT with a low cost which mixes the ideas of Turkish officials so The tender is always delaying...

 

[LegionnairE]

Turkiye has a bad experience with Russian Mi-17 Maintenance, overall program. Helicopters could't fly some years cause of some problems occured with Russian company.

You and I both know Mi-17 or any other Russian helicopter wouldn't have a chance in Turkey. Russians were broke and they had to pay their debts by military equipment. You know the story, but I'm still in favor of Mi-17s they got avionics & countermeasures upgrades in TAF and they are still the heaviest utility helicopters we have. For an army that doesn't have heavy lift helicopters Mi-17 is a total relief.

but, In current T-LORAMIDS tender, Most probably, Turkey will select PAC-3 with a big offset. Aster-30 isn't matured yet. S-300 is old so Turkish army officials most probably think the stupidy of pouring money on an absolete sytem While proceeding to be an effective power in own region. Selection of HQ-9 is difficult due to USA pressures. They play NATO card to eliminate other 2 contenders from T-LORAMIDS.

This is crazy If S300 is old, so is HQ9... it's essentially the same thing Chinese knew their chances were slim so they reduced the price to compete. From what I understand the decision will get delayed a couple of times more and SSM will push these firms to get the most ToT/offset value they can. I think the actual operational capabilities aren't our priority anymore.

While the PAC3 is coming strong, I've a feeling this tender will end up like the medium lift helicopter deal. But if the Chinese win, it will create a huge impact.

 

[ptldM3]

You and I both know Mi-17 or any other Russian helicopter wouldn't have a chance in Turkey. Russians were broke and they had to pay their debts by military equipment. You know the story, but I'm still in favor of Mi-17s they got avionics & countermeasures upgrades in TAF and they are still the heaviest utility helicopters we have. For an army that doesn't have heavy lift helicopters Mi-17 is a total relief.

.

I am not familiar with past MI-17 issues, I'm assuming it was spare parts, and I am assuming it was in the 1990's when thing were not going to well for Russian defence companies.

Today is a different story, all of those things you mentioned are true, engine upgrades are also available. NATO forces in Afghanistan have been relying on MI-17s for years because of their reliability and durability.

 

[ASQ-1918]

This is crazy If S300 is old, so is HQ9... it's essentially the same thing

Chinese themselves bought S-300PMU2 which is far superior. HQ-9 might be "essentially the same" when compared to lets say PMU1, but is clearly inferior to PMU2.

Besides, what Russia is offering to Turkey is Antey-2500. This type is more directed towards anti-balistic role.

 

[cabatli_53]

You and I both know Mi-17 or any other Russian helicopter wouldn't have a chance in Turkey. Russians were broke and they had to pay their debts by military equipment. You know the story, but I'm still in favor of Mi-17s they got avionics & countermeasures upgrades in TAF and they are still the heaviest utility helicopters we have. For an army that doesn't have heavy lift helicopters Mi-17 is a total relief.

This is crazy If S300 is old, so is HQ9... it's essentially the same thing Chinese knew their chances were slim so they reduced the price to compete. From what I understand the decision will get delayed a couple of times more and SSM will push these firms to get the most ToT/offset value they can. I think the actual operational capabilities aren't our priority anymore.

While the PAC3 is coming strong, I've a feeling this tender will end up like the medium lift helicopter deal. But if the Chinese win, it will create a huge impact.

HQ-9 looks a mixture of Russian copy missile+advanced western type electronic/radar combination. What China offered, can't be an issue for Russian equivalent so Chinese offer would always come to minds with Tech-transfer of Russian class SAM, While Russian system will be called as a system which is ordered by tiny Cyprus tens years ago, Even If a new and improved sensor capable variant of existing design is revealed with a name of PMU-2. If Russia offers what China does in T-LORAMIDS (acc to some source, China offers full tech transfer), S-300 PMU-2 will also be favorite system for like me people.

I expected USA joining into T-LORAMIDS with PAC-3 MSE but I think It is not on the table.

 

[LegionnairE]

@ptldM3 I think it's only so because of logistical reasons not because of the superiority of the platform. No offense but you just started mounting FLIRs on Mi24s

@ASQ-1918 I agree with the every word of what you're saying, HQ9 is but a copy of S300 so there's nothing new in it. But it can still win if what some sources' says is true and they are offering full ToT.

@cabatli_53 Tell me one thing in this world that isn't open for negotiation they bring MSE if SSM presses forward for it, it's only a matter of priorities

 

[ozi2000]

The reason the SSIK delayed is




I dont know if their talk change anything but I expect new SSIK in June.








Hagel Discusses Defense Relationship With Turkish Officials

American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, May 17, 2013 Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel discussed the defense relationship between the United States and Turkey with Turkish officials in a Pentagon meeting today, Pentagon Press Secretary George Little said.

In a statement summarizing the meeting, Little said Hagel met with Defense Minister Ismet Yilmaz, Foreign Affairs Minister Ahmet Davutolu and Hakan Fidan, undersecretary of Turkeys National Intelligence Organization.

In addition to the bilateral defense relationship, Little said, the meeting included discussion of continued opportunities for military-to-military partnership.

Hagel also reaffirmed the U.S. commitment to Turkey as a strong NATO ally, and he conveyed strong U.S. support of Turkeys security interests, including the ongoing NATO deployment of Patriot missiles to southern Turkey, he added.

The leaders spoke at length about regional security issues, particularly the two countries' shared concerns over the complex threats in Syria, Little said. They reaffirmed their efforts to work with allies and partners to support an inclusive transition that guarantees the Syrian people universal rights.