Russia gives a cold shoulder to India for the 5th generation fighter

[My-Analogous]

Not really!!! Several countries are more than happy to share and work together!! For several countries/companies they'd rather have 50% of a big market rather than 100% of zero (and then wind down)!!

Do you know what is national security meaning?

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Do you know what is national security meaning?

Do you know what friends mean??
Friendly countries share product development work! Even US doesn't design all its components by itself!!!
Israel, Sweden, France, Russia etc. are more than happy to share and work together with India!!!

 

[My-Analogous]

Do you know what friends mean??
Friendly countries share product development work! Even US doesn't design all its components by itself!!!
Israel, Sweden, France, Russia etc. are more than happy to share and work together with India!!!

Your comments seems not mature enough and regarding your friendly countries comments i start laughing because lots of your own countrymen stated many time that there is no terms called friendly countries and even alliance can be change according to country benefit. It is time to introduce you the real world and how things work. F16 is case study for you and listen what US did to Europe.

Don't put Pakistan China in this case because it is exception case and never happened before and even F35 case is not the same

 

[el nino]

Do Pakistanis think India is like our neighboring countries with small gdp and forex reserve with zero business sense.

You don't build a 2.5 trillion gdp and 400 billion forex reserve by making stupid financial decisions

Pak fa is not a fifth generato on fighter and India has challenged the Russians on this the cockpit technology is inferior to western fighters . India has massive exposure to israeli and french electronics and USA has presented f35 demo to indian navy

India will pay Russia to jointly Develope pak fa further but with selling rights and transfer technology.

If Russia plays hard ball then Russia loses indian market

It simple business and strategic sense .
When you are about to become the third largest gdp on the planet in decade you can throw your wait around and act in national interests .

This is not India I'd the 1980s

This is the fastest growing major economy in the world

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Your comments seems not mature enough and regarding your friendly countries comments i start laughing because lots of your own countrymen stated many time that there is no terms called friendly countries and even alliance can be change according to country benefit. It is time to introduce you the real world and how things work. F16 is case study for you and listen what US did to Europe.

Don't put Pakistan China in this case because it is exception case and never happened before and even F35 case is not the same

Huh?? Talking about friendship and sharing is immature?? Where does jihad and beheading innocents fall on your scale of maturity??
In international parlance 'friendly country' is not one that you go skinny dipping with, it just a country that doesn't intend to destroy you and further shares several strategic interests!!!

 

[el nino]

Russia has been losing the arms markets for decades now

In desperate attempt to retain billions of dollars it once made from China and India it is playing hardball on technology sharing.

Also the Russians ripped India off on gorshkov carrier deal with price escalation.


There is a indian lobby that insists on indengious weapons only going forward and a minimum..of tech sharing

The israeli are sharing technology on missles radars ucv and jointly developing new versions

France weapons though more expensive are reliable

Usa systems are world class

The last 16 deals that india signed worth over one billion or more deals 12 went to Usa Israel and France combined .

That tells the reality of the situation.

Those Pakistanis telling us India can't to this ondua is stuck India cannot move away Russia can dictate. Think again

Russia makes over 2 billion in just spares servicing mki and tanks you don't lose that to Israel or Ukraine or France or Usa. By acting stupid.

Listen to your biggest most important customer

Common business sense

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Russia has been losing the arms markets for decades now

In desperate attempt to retain billions of dollars it once made from China and India it is playing hardball on technology sharing.

Also the Russians ripped India off on gorshkov carrier deal with price escalation.


There is a indian lobby that insists on indengious weapons only going forward and a minimum..of tech sharing

The israeli are sharing technology on missles radars ucv and jointly developing new versions

France weapons though more expensive are reliable

Usa systems are world class

The last 16 deals that india signed worth over one billion or more deals 12 went to Usa Israel and France combined .

That tells the reality of the situation.

Those Pakistanis telling us India can't to this ondua is stuck India cannot move away Russia can dictate. Think again

Russia makes over 2 billion in just spares servicing mki and tanks you don't lose that to Israel or Ukraine or France or Usa. By acting stupid.

Listen to your biggest most important customer

Common business sense

Another important development that no defense analyst or reporter has picked up on, which could have significant impact on India, is that US-Israel defense deal (more correctly aid package) signed few months back!! '
US has pledged around $40 billion for Israel's defense for the next several years. Israel can use this money to buy American weapons!! The important difference from the previous aid packages is that unlike previous deals the current one requires Israel to use ALL of the $40 billion to BUY weapons. Previous deals allowed Israel to use around 25% of the money to invest in its own R&D and weapon development. Even though Israel was essentially getting free weapons from US, they were always cautious enough to think that US might cut off the free weapons any day, and as such should have a mature local defense industry. As such, every weapon type that they would buy from US, Israel would also try to recreate the weapon locally, even though they never built those for local usage - they looked for foreign customers (like India and China to sell).
With the new restrictions in place (non availability of US money for local R&D), Israel will be too eager to seek out more partnerships with India in order to fund the next generation weapons. This is good news for India and bad news for Russia!!

 

[el nino]

Unless India funds the fgfa the pak fa will.simply die a slow death like the Mig35

I predict the french will more orders for rafale in India and the USA and Israel will help on the amca development in India

Russia is about to lose l.the biggest arms market in the world

 

[Hephaestus]

False flagger? me , go to read all my 7748 posts...then you will discover my national identity

OK. Was just asking. Without any prejudice.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Russia can't afford to make revolutionized fighter as during Soviet time, make a brand new fighter mean you have systematically design every single part of the aircraft including bolt and nut. After the collapse of Soviet Union, a lot of talented Russians go abroad for better standard living and Russia don't have money, so PAKFA is the best concept they could get.

I agree with your post. But to be frank, what the Russians were very successful at, was to milk my Indian friends cash out of them very successfully when the R&D was worth like a few million. Like I said, this isn't a new platform and didn't require F-22 or F-35 type of R&D. This is LM stealth optimizing the F-16 or Boeing coming up with F-15's stealthy version. There is hardly any real R&D involved but yet our Indian friends paid billions into it .

If I was in Indian leadership, I'd have started a new project internally with US's support (like the DRDO's AWACS, etc, project with US, Israeli support). And I would've bought like 40-60 F-35's to soften the deal where the US defense companies would be willing to give India partial technology which can then be used in an internal stealthy project. But instead, they decided to waste their money by giving it to the Russians

 

[Jlaw]

What else India can do? you guys have only two choices left: get in or get out.

Indian can do the paint job .

 

[Reichsmarschall]

If history is any indicator russia would be very well be aware of the backstabbers

yes the ones who were having honeymoon with US when their sugar Daddy USSR was getting roasted by ISI backed mujahideens

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

I agree with your post. But to be frank, what the Russians were very successful at, was to milk my Indian friends cash out of them very successfully when the R&D was worth like a few million. Like I said, this isn't a new platform and didn't require F-22 or F-35 type of R&D. This is LM stealth optimizing the F-16 or Boeing coming up with F-15's stealthy version. There is hardly any real R&D involved but yet our Indian friends paid billions into it .

If I was in Indian leadership, I'd have started a new project internally with US's support (like the DRDO's AWACS, etc, project with US, Israeli support). And I would've bought like 40-60 F-35's to soften the deal where the US defense companies would be willing to give India partial technology which can then be used in an internal stealthy project. But instead, they decided to waste their money by giving it to the Russians

Well, Indians didn't really waste billions on it. The Russian con was realized years ago and India pulled out of the project - a loss of $290 million!!!

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Indian can do the paint job .

Oh man!!!!

I agree with your post. But to be frank, what the Russians were very successful at, was to milk my Indian friends cash out of them very successfully when the R&D was worth like a few million. Like I said, this isn't a new platform and didn't require F-22 or F-35 type of R&D. This is LM stealth optimizing the F-16 or Boeing coming up with F-15's stealthy version. There is hardly any real R&D involved but yet our Indian friends paid billions into it .

If I was in Indian leadership, I'd have started a new project internally with US's support (like the DRDO's AWACS, etc, project with US, Israeli support). And I would've bought like 40-60 F-35's to soften the deal where the US defense companies would be willing to give India partial technology which can then be used in an internal stealthy project. But instead, they decided to waste their money by giving it to the Russians

I don't think Russia is intentionally want to milk India, they certainly know it will do more harm to them by cheating India but the project need massive investment and India has money and simply they didn't deliver what India is expected so all resulted into this drama.

As I mentioned previously, India didn't have much choice other than cooperate with Russia the only 5th project available on international cooperation, US only allow the most trusted allies to take part on F-35, India had no chance, even Turkey, a NATO ally was only allowed to take part do some F-35 drop fuel tank as work sharing if i'm not wrong, you think India will accept that?

Yep. And India had chosen to get out.....Russians haven't given up on trying to persuade though.
Putin himself came to India and personally announced that he's trying to move the needle on this!! What can the Indians do?? Shut him up??

Is India really pull out or just a speculation?

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Is India really pull out or just a speculation?

Beyond the initial exploration, India hasn't put in any money or effort into the project - if that doesn't mean pulling out, what else does?? If Russia were to come around and accept Indian requirements/conditions things could change - but as is it's a no-go. Russia did come around every now and then with new proposals - reducing the price etc. Russia is realizing that India is not going to bend - so its up to Russia to bend. If they do, then its kiss-n-make-up time