Russia gives a cold shoulder to India for the 5th generation fighter

[Zen0]

Russia military industry will collapse to nothing without indian $$$ billions .

Rafale
Scorpene
C17 globemasters
P8 posideon
C130 hercules
m777 HOWITZERS
Barak 8 Sams
ge414 ENGINES
ELBIT dash 5 HMD/ python 5
Harpy drones


USA FRANCE & ISRAEL Are winning massive deals

currently

Russia is on the verge of winning
SU30MKI upgrade deal worth $10 billion
Gorgorvich Frigates x 4 ships worth $3 billion
second Akula class lease £1 billion
S400 abm system worth $4 billion
T90 SM deal for 464 tanks worth $2,5 billion


All of these deald can be lost to USA FRANCE or ISRAEL idf thye Russians don't tread carefully around INDIA

Someone who thinks that India will give up the s400 and sukoi deals is beyond delusional . India is Russias biggest arms importer .

5billion from s400 deal
1billion from NIIF deal
3.2 billion Kamov deal
3.5 billion for new batch su30s.

That alone surpasses entire cost allocated from your list.

 

[ranadd]

where are the PDF's real posters? Just trolls who shit on Indian threads.

Russia saying no to Indian money, yea ok.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Well, that's the deal they have to make or walk away from it!!!
The 50% work share was an issue, but not as big an issue as Russia taking $25 billion from India and passing off a junk aircraft like PAKFA as 5th gen aircraft!! If Russia can deliver of FGFA (Indian requirements), maybe India will be prepared to settle for lesser work share!

Legally you're right, Russia should fulfill the 50% work share obligation as promised but Maybe Russia thought that India didn't have experience design a descent fighter and could make matter worse by meddling on 5th design so they rather to do the whole work by themselves. I'm wondering why at the earlier stage of the design, India had not put the brake on program knowing that Russia was trying to keep them away from the work share.

As for PAKFA, I don't think it's wise to call it as junk aircraft even it didn't met India design specification but still much better that what India could get.

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Legally you're right, Russia should fulfill the 50% work share obligation as promised but Maybe Russia thought that India didn't have experience design a descent fighter and could make matter worse by meddling on 5th design so they rather to do the whole work by themselves.

That's a possibility. But Indian aspirations are its aspirations - thinks its up to the job! As I said, the workshare was an issue, but the bigger issue was Russia taking $4 billion in development money and really not doing any major improvements - PAKFA is essentially a touch up work on the Sukhoi platform - same engine, and similar avionics!

I'm wondering why at the earlier stage of the design, India had not put the brake on program knowing that Russia was trying to keep them away from the work share.

India did. After paying the first installment of $290 million, India hasn't put up any further money. It's been several years that the haggling is still going on.

As for PAKFA, I don't think it's wise to call it as junk aircraft even it didn't met India design specification but still much better that what India could get.

Intrinsically PAKFA is a decent aircraft but for the price that Russia was charging (about $200 million a piece), it is essentially a piece of junk.

 

[friendly_troll96]

more of a middle shoulder

 

[ranadd]

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

That's a possibility. But Indian aspirations are its aspirations - thinks its up to the job! As I said, the workshare was an issue, but the bigger issue was Russia taking $4 billion in development money and really not doing any major improvements - PAKFA is essentially a touch up work on the Sukhoi platform - same engine, and similar avionics!

India did. After paying the first installment of $290 million, India hasn't put up any further money. It's been several years that the haggling is still going on.

Intrinsically PAKFA is a decent aircraft but for the price that Russia was charging (about $200 million a piece), it is essentially a piece of junk.

C'mon PAKFA is just a touch up work of Sukoi? , how low you gonna make Russian feel, a lot of people said that PAKFa is just merely an design SU-27 extension, I didn't want to believe but you're hilarious. I think India don't have much choice either continue to pour money and get the final share of the work or simply pull out but I don't think Russia gonna wait forever from India, they need PAKFA.

Indeed $200 millions price tag is almost a price of an destroyer...or corvette...??? I'm glad that China didn't take part of Russia's offer and go on it own direction, people claim that J-20 is an copy of Mig 1.42 but who care at least we don't have such drama.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Whatever @Hassan Guy . The problem for you guy is many places, S-400 alone is such a system can destroy entire PAF two times without even single MKI or Tejas flying. Americans fear this system for something.

Sir, you guys from both sides surprise me. So you don't think that the Pakistani SAMS are able to shoot down the MKI's or M2k's or Jags or Mig-29's? Also, the closeness of Chinese and Pakistani relationships, and then constant warmness of Russian-Pakistani relations almost guarantees me that the Pakistan would get Russian SAMS. It is just a matter of time. I think I am going to go as far making a statement that Pakistan's own BMD won't be self-created. It will be either systems like Buk-S300/400 or Chinese version of those systems. So in a few years, the end result is, India can shoot 300 KM inside the Pakistan airspace and Pakistan will be able to do the same. You just got to give it time. The Pakistanis, after watching these developments for two decades, have shown me that they never let any Indian development go without a proper yet limited response as a deterrence. So why would we think otherwise on this matter?

C'mon PAKFA is just a touch up work of Sukoi? , how low you gonna make Russian feel, a lot of people said that PAKFa is just merely an design SU-27 extension

This is actually true. This is an extension of the SU-27 / SU-30 family with advance avionics, smooth out air-frame angles to deflect radar signals, and RAM quoting to absorb the internal radio waves from creating a cross section point due to returning wavelengths back to the receiver of the radar. This isn't a true R&D type of a project where $ 50 billion was spent to create something brand new like the F-22.

 

[Hephaestus]

So what's the problem then?

Geopolitics.
Anyways we will get what we want. F35, PAKFA, Next Gen Rafale, Next Gen Gripen, even Mitsubishi.
So, sit tight & watch the space.

C'mon PAKFA is just a touch up work of Sukoi? , how low you gonna make Russian feel, a lot of people said that PAKFa is just merely an design SU-27 extension, I didn't want to believe but you're hilarious. I think India don't have much choice either continue to pour money and get the final share of the work or simply pull out but I don't think Russia gonna wait forever from India, they need PAKFA.

Indeed $200 millions price tag is almost a price of an destroyer...or corvette...??? I'm glad that China didn't take part of Russia's offer and go on it own direction, people claim that J-20 is an copy of Mig 1.42 but who care at least we don't have such drama.

Are you a false flagger?
Genuine question.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

This is actually true. This is an extension of the SU-27 / SU-30 family with advance avionics, smooth out air-frame angles to deflect radar signals, and RAM quoting to absorb the internal radio waves from creating a cross section point due to return wavelengths back to the receiver of the radar. This isn't a true R&D type of a project where $ 50 billion was spent to create something brand new like the F-22.

Russia can't afford to make revolutionized fighter as during Soviet time, make a brand new fighter mean you have systematically design every single part of the aircraft including bolt and nut. After the collapse of Soviet Union, a lot of talented Russians go abroad for better standard living and Russia don't have money, so PAKFA is the best concept they could get.

Are you a false flagger?
Genuine question.

False flagger? me , go to read all my 7748 posts...then you will discover my national identity

 

[rcrmj]

I remember to read an article that one of Russian official said "what India can do beside the money on PAK/FA", I know Indians are good on IT and software, beside that what India can contribute to PAK/FA program?

how many times you have to repeat this grandiose lie of the century?

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Russia can't afford to make revolutionized fighter as during Soviet time, make a brand new fighter mean you have systematically design every single part of the aircraft including bolt and nut. After the collapse of Soviet Union, a lot of talented Russians go abroad for better standard living and Russia don't have money, so PAKFA is the best concept they could get.

Now you get why India was unwilling to part with $25 billion!!! Even though Russia was trying to convince India that PAKFA is an all new revolutionary aircraft!!!

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Now you get why India was unwilling to part with $25 billion!!! Even though Russia was trying to convince India that PAKFA is an all new revolutionary aircraft!!!

What else India can do? you guys have only two choices left: get in or get out.

 

[jung41]

Article's content is some what correct but its not Russian its Indians who are holding the pagandom because now India is trying to get more indigenous defence industry. Also west is now more open to India .

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

What else India can do? you guys have only two choices left: get in or get out.

Yep. And India had chosen to get out.....Russians haven't given up on trying to persuade though.
Putin himself came to India and personally announced that he's trying to move the needle on this!! What can the Indians do?? Shut him up??