Russia can't find a better ally than Pakistan in the region.

[vostok]

@vostok

and other Russian members......What do u guys think?

I personally support the most profound and extensive rapprochement between Russia and Pakistan. However, we should not forget that such a rapprochement is impossible to the detriment of the Russian-Indian relations, as well as India - an old and faithful friend of Russia. At the same time, the improvement of Russian-Pakistani relations may contribute to alleviating the tension between India and Pakistan.
In any case, the farther is Pakistan from the U.S, the closer it will be to Russia.

 

[SpArK]

Revive Shanghai co operation into a major player rather than going one on one.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I personally support the most profound and extensive rapprochement between Russia and Pakistan. However, we should not forget that such a rapprochement is impossible to the detriment of the Russian-Indian relations, as well as India - an old and faithful friend of Russia. At the same time, the improvement of Russian-Pakistani relations may contribute to alleviating the tension between India and Pakistan.
In any case, the farther is Pakistan from the U.S, the closer it will be to Russia.

i think one should look for its own interests as they say that in international politics there is no friend or foe.

 

[GURU DUTT]

I personally support the most profound and extensive rapprochement between Russia and Pakistan. However, we should not forget that such a rapprochement is impossible to the detriment of the Russian-Indian relations, as well as India - an old and faithful friend of Russia. At the same time, the improvement of Russian-Pakistani relations may contribute to alleviating the tension between India and Pakistan.
In any case, the farther is Pakistan from the U.S, the closer it will be to Russia.

thing is its not about india that is keeping russians at bay but the home grown jehadi element and lack of rule of law and writt of govt that is the main stumbling block between russia and pakistan ties

 

[American Eagle]

However you are ignoring another piece of the Equation. Ukraine is 100% dependent on Russian Gas and Europe gets 40% of its Gas from Russia through Ukraine. By blocking Russian Gas, Ukraine will not only strangulate itself but Europe too. So what you are suggesting that Ukraine will do amounts to Ukraine cutting its own throat and Pissing off Russia and Europe at the same time.

That theory of yours make zero sense......

I think Putin is way ahead of you there, my Friend.....

I am and was aware of Russia/gas/oil relationshipss with/to Ukraine. Just too tired last night to discuss more. The US and our allies have resources now being evaluated to supply Ukraine, as well as Western Europe.

The "alignment" logistically of the whole world's oil and gas demands has to be studied in conjunction with Europe's expanding use of renewable energy resources, sun, wind power, and harnessed tidal power, which France and Holland are excellent examples, harnessing tidal/hydro power in the Case of at least France to supply up to 10% of all of France's electricity needs.

Ukraine, it takes time, has much untapped mountains hydro power potential.

Overall by invading Ukraine where Sevastopol as a Russian Navy Base is analogous to Guantanamo as a US Navy Base in Communist Cuba, and considering that Russia's Navy will always have to pass through the Dardanelles Mr. Putin has exhibited in my singular view a lack of complex long range strategic planning for a flash in the pan undemocratic tactical, emotional bravado that won't mean much in a few years. My views without total details, as they say, "stay tuned."

 

[American Eagle]

I am and was aware of Russia/gas/oil relationshipss with/to Ukraine. Just too tired last night to discuss more. The US and our allies have resources now being evaluated to supply Ukraine, as well as Western Europe.

The "alignment" logistically of the whole world's oil and gas demands has to be studied in conjunction with Europe's expanding use of renewable energy resources, sun, wind power, and harnessed tidal power, which France and Holland are excellent examples, harnessing tidal/hydro power in the Case of at least France to supply up to 10% of all of France's electricity needs.

Ukraine, it takes time, has much untapped mountains hydro power potential.

Overall by invading Ukraine where Sevastopol as a Russian Navy Base is analogous to Guantanamo as a US Navy Base in Communist Cuba, and considering that Russia's Navy will always have to pass through the Dardanelles Mr. Putin has exhibited in my singular view a lack of complex long range strategic planning for a flash in the pan undemocratic tactical, emotional bravado that won't mean much in a few years. My views without total details, as they say, "stay tuned."

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/countrytemplate_up.html

UKRAINE

Electricity - production:

198.1 billion kWh (2012 est.)

country comparison to the world:22


Electricity - consumption:

175.3 billion kWh (2012 est.)

country comparison to the world:20


Electricity - exports:

3.852 billion kWh (2012 est.)

country comparison to the world:32


Electricity - imports:

1.894 billion kWh (2009 est.)

country comparison to the world:51


Electricity - installed generating capacity:

54.38 million kW (2009 est.)

country comparison to the world:17


Electricity - from fossil fuels:

64.4% of total installed capacity (2009 est.)

country comparison to the world:129


Electricity - from nuclear fuels:

25.4% of total installed capacity (2009 est.)

country comparison to the world:3


Electricity - from hydroelectric plants:

10% of total installed capacity (2009 est.)

country comparison to the world:114


Electricity - from other renewable sources:

0.1% of total installed capacity (2009 est.)

country comparison to the world:91


Crude oil - production:

73,180 bbl/day (2011 est.)

country comparison to the world:52


Crude oil - exports:

160 bbl/day (2009 est.)

country comparison to the world:69


Crude oil - imports:

143,600 bbl/day (2009 est.)

country comparison to the world:42


Crude oil - proved reserves:

395 million bbl (1 January 2012 es)

country comparison to the world:54

Pakistan is way behind Ukraine in both developing new power resources, as those of you living with revolving power outages know full well.

Pakistan's near term plans are focused on new, additional nuclear power plants (hazardous due to terrorist and terrorism threats) and more, new, to be built hydro power.

Pakistan can also look to solar, wind, then more hydro power...looking ahead strategically.

Likewise, Ukraine will or should look to these, plus Ukraine has oil resources greater than Pakistan's.

Natural gas is the great shortfall for Ukraine. Finding either/or both alternatives to natural gas is the current consumer need for Ukraine.

Understand that Russia has to have "customers" for it's gas exports concurrent with the lowest transmission of natural gas costs.

Afghanistan is facing great political difficulty in that the outgoing Presdient has shown himself to be a double dealing fool, feeding his half brother "booty" at the expense of the people. Still way too tribal, with the most backward form or style of religion, Afghanistan being land locked is at present and for the foreseeable future a "big damn mess" as is/are the Northern parts of Pakistan.

 

[WAR-rior]

Not at all in favor of this development. Pakistan shud refrain from looking for partnerships. Instead, they shud develop an atmosphere within that countries shud run in for partnerships. Dont know whether guyz here understand this but it decides the stance of urs in the partnership. When u ask for something, u are on the inferior side but when someone asks u, u are on the superior side.

I believe, deostrategic games are good to be on the winning side in international politics but question arises, is Pakistan ready for this? Is Pakistani internal scenario conducive to sustain the trust any country shows in them?

I mean, SriLanka Cricket showed this trust and ended up on the recieving side of Terrorism. What happaned next? Till date no cricket in Pakistan.

You guyz have only 2 options before looking for super power partnerships, either create an internal conducive atmosphere by working on ur people or Have ur Military clout so as to control every person like in times of Musharraf.

Bungee Jumping without tightly roped leads to Demise. Simple it is. Pakistan will never develop with Superpower partnerships but by creating an atmosphere where Superpowers run to u WITHOUT any Terms and Conditions.

 

[Chak Bamu]

The article in question makes excellent observation about establishing and nurturing links between Russia and Pakistan. It also acknowledges that establishment of a good atmosphere would take time, and that the investment would be worth it for both nations.

Such a scenario need not concern India which has a lot older and deeper engagement with Russia as @vostok observed. It would therefore be wrong to even consider India as being somehow relevant at this stage.

The Russians are just watching how scenario develops post-2014. If they see Pakistan as being a little supportive of Russian concerns, they would certainly show positive signs for future engagement.

But for Pakistan, improvement of ties with Russia should not come at the price of anyone else. We are having difficulties with USA, but that does not mean that we should degrade Pakistan-US ties in anticipation of improvement of ties with Russia. That would be foolish. When ties are strained, there needs to be an effort to de-escalate tensions, not increase them. Americans have acted with their perception of national interest. If it goes counter to Pakistan's wishes then that does not mean that the situation would continue to be so. I foresee an improvement in Pakistan's ties with USA over long term. An improvement in Pakistan's relations with Russia would be most welcome in this context.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Russia is kind of busy right now to be bothered with some far fetched thheories. What it needs now is try its best to band together its well trusted friends rather than put their hands in yet another messed up fast radicalizing and confused country for the sake of something that may not even be a remote possibility.

Increasing Russian influence in the Muslim world - Pakistan hardly has any influence with its Muslim neighbors nor any influence with other South Asian Muslim countries. It has no say in any stans of Central Asia nor South East Muslim countries. The only country they can influence is Turkey, Saudis and a few Arab ones - but we know how that will pan out compared to American influence over them.

Pipelines - TAPI, IP etc are dead meat because Pakistani leaders dont have the backbone to stand against the US intervention. Its a waste of time and energy for Russia into trying to offset wests influence in Pakistan because nothing beneficial will come out of it.

What an amateurish effort, seemingly spurred by momentary surfeit of stomach acidity after reading a harmless article.

1. Your characterization of Pakistan is what most Indian trolls repeat. Nothing new about it. Yet Pakistan continues to exist, grow, and mature.

2. Your chagrin at even a suggestion of improvement of ties between Russia and Pakistan points to some deep insecurity. Why should it be an either/or choice? Do you think that Russians are not capable of balancing their ties?

3. Your comment about Pakistan's influence in Muslim countries is laughable to say the least. Our relations with Bangladesh fluctuate depending upon whether or not AL is in power. That is a matter of ideological preference of Haseena, not a national obsession. To see the uselessness of your observation, just observe how Bangladeshis support Pakistan during Cricket matches.

Your comparison of relative influences of Pakistan and America shows just how unbalanced are your views. Are you serious?

4. IP and TAPI are different and have different dynamics your lumping them together again shows your lack of comprehension.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Very smart. My post was removed and the thread moved to Seniors cafe.

Never mind. The Russian members read my post and Russians are already aware of Pakistani support to Chechen terror groups. My question was whether it could affect the relations or not.

 

[acid rain]

What an amateurish effort, seemingly spurred by momentary surfeit of stomach acidity after reading a harmless article.

1. Your characterization of Pakistan is what most Indian trolls repeat. Nothing new about it. Yet Pakistan continues to exist, grow, and mature.

2. Your chagrin at even a suggestion of improvement of ties between Russia and Pakistan points to some deep insecurity. Why should it be an either/or choice? Do you think that Russians are not capable of balancing their ties?

3. Your comment about Pakistan's influence in Muslim countries is laughable to say the least. Our relations with Bangladesh fluctuate depending upon whether or not AL is in power. That is a matter of ideological preference of Haseena, not a national obsession. To see the uselessness of your observation, just observe how Bangladeshis support Pakistan during Cricket matches.

Your comparison of relative influences of Pakistan and America shows just how unbalanced are your views. Are you serious?

4. IP and TAPI are different and have different dynamics your lumping them together again shows your lack of comprehension.

A whole bunch of rants there without any substance. You just ranted all over the place without any counter argument.

Your only counter in there was typical fanboyish - Bangladeshi's cheering for Pakistani cricket team. Was that the best you could come up with? or Pak support to Bangladeshi jamaatis, you forget all the anti Pakistani protests there?. You ignored all the other countries I mentioned in that point because Pakistan doesnt play cricket with them? is that it?.

IP and TAPI have different dynamics - but both are multinational pipelines and both are in the freezer - figure out why?

LOL, characterization of Pakistan - exists, grow and mature - in which direction? are you denying that its messed up, getting radicalized and is confused?

I am sure by now any Pakistani would know the outcome of becoming pawns in the hands of big players - so my chagrin is justified when you jumping into bed with a different partner on a cyclical basis changes the dynamics of the region all over.

Pakistan brings in various countries into the region promising them access and pipelines and whatnot and its neighbors pay the price.

The current honeymoon with the Saudis is a good example - the crap that will be produced out of this union will make all of Pakistans neighbors pay the price for a long while if you know what I mean.

The Russians, the Americans, the Saaudis, the Chinese all vying for the Pakistani honeypot that is on offer - is and has left one hell of a region for all to lament about and will not rectify in a long long while.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I personally support the most profound and extensive rapprochement between Russia and Pakistan. However, we should not forget that such a rapprochement is impossible to the detriment of the Russian-Indian relations, as well as India - an old and faithful friend of Russia.

I agree and this is why the author is restricting this partnership to fighting war on terror and dealing with transnational terrorist entities like Al Qaeda.
the situation in Afghanistan affects both countries directly and indirectly (terrorist heavens, instability etc) so thats yet another avenue where both can use their influence and good relations with Pashton and Northern alliance to get a peaceful & stable Afghanistan that is no longer a ripe fruit for Al Qaeda.

roads, pipelines and other trade is too far fetched and can only happen once there is stability in Pakistan and a government that doesnt look up to KSA or USA to make its next move. with PMLn such initiate is out of question which has in quick succession not only put a spanner into Gawader progress but also cancelled gas agreement with Iran and decided to follow the directive of KSA to arm and support the FSA terrorists in Syria.

with the kind of taliban appeasers and supporter parties in government, any such alliance or cooperation with Russia is impossible and what Putin can do is send a very clear message to the Taliban friendly government of Pakistan that if it follows the directive of Saudis to arm the Chechen rebels that it will have to face the direct response from Russian forces.


I am not really keen on exchanging scholars and clerics because Pakistani Islam is infested with radicalised & violent version of Taqfiri Wahabism and it will only cause problems for Russia and instead of helping it will degrade our relations.

on the other hand, if by any chance or luck a pro Pakistan government comes to power in the near future which levels the terrorist breeding grounds like Lal Masjid and executes the mass killers, controls the talibanized media and judiciary .. then there is a chance that Pakistan can contribute positively.


@American Eagle
good to see your post after a very long time Sir, all said if our cooperation with Russia is not at the expense of our relations with USA or Russia's relations with India and we only concentrate on meaningful and practical partnership in dealing with home grown and foreign based Islamic terrorism then such cooperation will be hailed and appreciated by entire world.

 

[airmarshal]

We need to wake up and find ways to get out of this slavery of US.

Recently the Saudi 'gift' of 1.5 billion and the news whirling around it for its motives, become more credible as our leaders have the inclination sell this country very cheap.

We have seen this in US war in Afghanistan and we saw it in our involvement in Afghan affairs in the past three decades. It seems our geopolitical location is not meant for us but for other powers to utilize. Thee only thing is the price that power puts on us and we are ever willing to sell.

 

[scorpionx]

The article has focused on three vital points; A regular intercourse of religious ideas between clerics (which look quite different in respective countries), Importance on nation building efforts while encountering the tribal militias and the lastly the common acceptance on the threat of Al Qaeda and the peaceful settlement of war torn Afghanistan.As it suggests,this article,as few have said earlier does not emphasize upon a relationship on a scale at which Pakistan-China relationship has been build up for the past few decades. It should also to be noted that in any case joint Pak-Russian collaboration should not be seen as a threat to India-Russian relationship;It will be an inaccurate analysis of the relationships we share with each other.

At it's present state, Chinese and the Pakistanis have a certain degree of mutual interests working which provokes the spirit behind the vast amount of Chinese investment in Pakistan. The Russians do not have such vital interests so far in this region.The Chinese want to secure their oil supply network from Central Asia and to establish a redundant route other than the Indian ocean in case of emergency. This is quite understandable from strategic point of view and honestly as an Indian, I could not have appreciated more by this brilliant maneuver from the Chinese;This is a lesson for us Indians on how to use International relationship with a neighbor to gain Geo strategic advantage which we,Indians severely lacked off.

On their war on fighting radical extremists, the Russians,Chinese and Indians are fighting against a common ghost and it is observed that the degree and nature of such threats are not similar in these three countries.So there is always scope for cooperation between these three countries and hopefully India and Pakistan too endeavor for a common consensus on curbing terrorism for a peaceful South Asia in near future.

 

[Edevelop]

United States is part of NATO, Russian territory has expanded from Central Asia to Eastern Europe, and Arabs despite all their internal strifes have an Arab League stretching from Morocco to UAE. All these countries have found a way to convert economic relations into strategic relations.

Pakistan must cooperate with its neighbouring Islamic countries, who are as divided, and singled out as them, This Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey belt is an excellent opportunity and we must look to revive the RCD.