Rs 80,000 crore worth defence projects cleared, 6 submarines to be built in India

[The Huskar]

Air-independent propulsion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An aditional propulsion system that extends range and endurance of the sub, but more importantly is very quiet and makes the sub hard to detect in AIP mode.



They don't insist on VLS, but want tube launched land attack capability. The Amur with Brahmos VLS was only a side offer mainly of Brahmos inc, but that version wouldn't have the space for the AIP anymore and then wouldn't comply to IN's requirements.

What about U 216.we already have U 209 in service so servicibility won't be too much of a headache.Also its 4000 ton displacement and non magnetic hull of U 212(if we can negotiate) would be a game changer in the shallow waters of Arabian Sea

 

[narcon]

the claimed 25 km range of a Spike is totally bullshit， either you get the wrong source or you just simply retarded.

With every single weapon we sold to Pakistan, you have to spend triple amount to go tit for tat

Indian Mars mission versus Chinese Mars mission?
Indian mission was dirt cheaper in the world - Set those parameters against other future Chinese missile systems against India as for as the cost is concerned...

And you got them from Russia, which is first source for Indians.

 

[sancho]

The downside is that it reduces the speed of the submarine drastically - the maximum in usual operating conditions
not exceeding 6-8 knots. An average is around 5-6 knots.

Compare this to the ~20 knots speed of non-AIP submarines (such the Scorpene CM-2000 we're getting).

That's why the normal diesel electric propulsion is used for normal transit, while you would use the AIP to attack an enemy or sneak in to a target. The low noise is more important here than the speed.

That's great to know - This means the Scorpene/S80 do stand a very good chance of being selected.

Have some doubts on that, it simply doesn't offer us much advantages to go with it, if it's based on the Scorpene anyway and we can get naval Scalp and a proven MESMA AIP from the French directly.

What about U 216.we already have U 209 in service so servicibility won't be too much of a headache.Also its 4000 ton displacement and non magnetic hull of U 212(if we can negotiate) would be a game changer in the shallow waters of Arabian Sea

You are mixing some things up here. We have the U209 and it's successor is the U214, which is on offer for us. The U212 was developed only for Germany and Italy and the U216 is a new concept based on that sub, but so far was not part of our competition. Depending on if we allow new, not developed subs to be part of the competition, the Germans might change their offer, but that's speculation at this point.
Personally I would love to go for additional Scorpenes and ask the Germans for a joint development on the U216 instead, to implement IN's requirements and Indian systems from the start.

 

[The Huskar]

You are mixing some things up here. We have the U209 and it's successor is the U214, which is on offer for us. The U212 was developed only for Germany and Italy and the U216 is a new concept based on that sub, but so far was not part of our competition. Depending on if we allow new, not developed subs to be part of the competition, the Germans might change their offer, but that's speculation at this point.
Personally I would love to go for additional Scorpenes and ask the Germans for a joint development on the U216 instead, to implement IN's requirements and Indian systems from the start.

Even i would like the IN to go for larger scorpene as it would eliminate the problems in maintaining two different types of platforms but the non magnetic hull of U 212 makes it almost impossible to detect by magnetic anomaly detector.This is a serious advantage and MOD should try to get it from HDW.Also RFI has not yet been sent and who is to say that IN won't change the specific requirement details.

 

[sancho]

Even i would like the IN to go for larger scorpene as it would eliminate the problems in maintaining two different types of platforms but the non magnetic hull of U 212 makes it almost impossible to detect by magnetic anomaly detector.

It's actually a protection against magnetic mines.

 

[axisofevil]

This sub is what India should go for.....

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[WishLivePak]

Time will tell that, but it is a good start to develop the local industry and make ourselves self reliant.

Even if they're not up to western standards, it nonetheless helps in following ways. India gets more jobs, boost in economy. In addition, India learns, so education flourishes (students can become engineers knowing there are jobs for it). Finally, one day India can be closer if not at par with the western standards.

This is what helped china. With big economy, they don't go out buying American planes and even when they buy Russian, they learn from it. Now their jets are having more home grown material than an exact copy of soviets.

 

[axisofevil]

Even if they're not up to western standards, it nonetheless helps in following ways. India gets more jobs, boost in economy. In addition, India learns, so education flourishes (students can become engineers knowing there are jobs for it). Finally, one day India can be closer if not at par with the western standards.

This is what helped china. With big economy, they don't go out buying American planes and even when they buy Russian, they learn from it. Now their jets are having more home grown material than an exact copy of soviets.

Paksitn should just rejoin India and help us all become a superpower...

 

[WishLivePak]

Paksitn should just rejoin India and help us all become a superpower...

no

 

[Cat Shannon]

Even if they're not up to western standards, it nonetheless helps in following ways. India gets more jobs, boost in economy. In addition, India learns, so education flourishes (students can become engineers knowing there are jobs for it). Finally, one day India can be closer if not at par with the western standards.

This is what helped china. With big economy, they don't go out buying American planes and even when they buy Russian, they learn from it. Now their jets are having more home grown material than an exact copy of soviets.

china is sitting on about $3.5 trillion.the reason they buy from russia is because no one is allowed to sell them because of sanctions following the tienanmen square massacre. hence their urgent self reliance projects. if they were not embargoed, the story would have been different. they would have gotten stuff from france/germany/italy for sure. southafrica too.

 

[WishLivePak]

china is sitting on about $3.5 trillion.the reason they buy from russia is because no one is allowed to sell them because of sanctions following the tienanmen square massacre. hence their urgent self reliance projects. if they were not embargoed, the story would have been different. they would have gotten stuff from france/germany/italy for sure. southafrica too.

China did buy jets from US before that incident?

I don't think US will like to sell to China no matter what, because of reverse engineering. Also China can have US lift embargo if it wishes. But it is ok with cheaper russia alternative.

 

[axisofevil]

no

Exactly the answer we want! Thanks

 

[WishLivePak]

Exactly the answer we want! Thanks

still no

 

[kurup]

They don't insist on VLS, but want tube launched land attack capability. The Amur with Brahmos VLS was only a side offer mainly of Brahmos inc, but that version wouldn't have the space for the AIP anymore and then wouldn't comply to IN's requirements.

Is there any SSK out there with AIP and VLS ??

 

[unbiasedopinion]

Even if they're not up to western standards, it nonetheless helps in following ways. India gets more jobs, boost in economy. In addition, India learns, so education flourishes (students can become engineers knowing there are jobs for it). Finally, one day India can be closer if not at par with the western standards.
This is what helped china. With big economy, they don't go out buying American planes and even when they buy Russian, they learn from it. Now their jets are having more home grown material than an exact copy of soviets.

Yes, i humbly agree it is big learning curve but some where it starts with a small step and this step has now been taken. And we have ample success stories and methodology which can be leveraged in the defence industry as well for example, ISRO and IT industry. They have shown how with even 1/10th of budget things can be done and heights can be achieved.

More over it will also push youngsters towards education as you rightly pointed out and will help India grow.